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M+S Tyre Query

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

“If you shift down on slippery road surfaces to increase the engine braking effect, the drive wheels may lose traction.
Do not shift down on slippery road surfaces to increase the engine braking effect.”

That makes sense to me. You should shift down BEFORE the slippery road surface/descent. Easier said than done however...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Ozboy, yes very happy with them in all conditions so far through summer and now wet and cold - yet to try in snow but judging by some of the videos on you tube they’d be pretty bloody good for UK conditions and even moderate alpine roads - although obviously not as good as full winters!)
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've got some Michelin Cross Climates on a small front wheel drive car (Toyota Yaris). Expensive. But they do seem pretty good in wet snow and on wet, slippery grass. I am impressed enough to be fitting them to a Toyota Rav 4 soon (quoted £633 for four, fitted).

Although it may be true that chunky all-terrains are not always good in snow, there are some very notable exceptions. I have BF Goodrich All Terrains (KO2, new rubber formula, with mountain peak and snowflake symbol) on my Toyota Hilux pickup, and they have amazing grip in snow. Only really suitable for bigger 4x4s, I'd say, as very chunky. Cost £175 each, fitted.
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@mitcva, might be worth you checking the ATS deal I mentioned in an earlier post
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@mitcva, just had 4 fitted to my Rav4 - couldn’t be happier with them Cool
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Dear All: Have been reading this thread but tbh a lot is flying way up high over my head...So a) I don't have a 4x4 , I have an i10 Huyndai and b) trying to decide between Michelin Cross Climate and a Winter tyre of comparable price. Driving to Megeve and will be there from Jan to April. Any thoughts from those experienced in driving in snow/wet etc conditions? Many thanks
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dear All: Have been reading this thread but tbh a lot is flying way up high over my head...So a) I don't have a 4x4 , I have an i10 Huyndai and b) trying to decide between Michelin Cross Climate and a Winter tyre of comparable price. Driving to Megeve and will be there from Jan to April. Any thoughts from those experienced in driving in snow/wet etc conditions? Many thanks
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
For a bias of more time spent in alpine environment and front wheel drive, then you could logically move to more winter biased all season tires.

An example being "Falken Euroall Season AS200" they offer a stronger bias toward a full winter type than others discussed above.

You wouldn't need to consider swapping to and from a "winter" tire, could put them on now and no need to swap back on return. Just use them until worn out.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@mitcva, where the heck are you getting your tyres from? Mine were way less than what you have been quoted. Just looking at Mytyres.co.uk they come in at £111.50 per tyre delivered.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@tinabf, both will work, but as an alternative I would suggest Nokian Weatherproof all season tyres as a better alternative for your purposes - it is a winter tyre adapted to summer driving too. So you can use it for 4 winter months in mountains and then continue driving on them in summer. https://www.nokiantyres.com/amp/tyres/all-weather/nokian-weatherproof/
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@mooney058, they do look good and fit for purpose discussed, the Nokian.

It may have an influence though if the vehicle has a spare wheel, the Falken can be fitted either direction but the Nokian seems to be uni-directional.

It leaves you with an odd dilemma if you puncture and have to fit spare "out in the wild".
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ski3 wrote:
@mooney058, they do look good and fit for purpose discussed, the Nokian.

It may have an influence though if the vehicle has a spare wheel, the Falken can be fitted either direction but the Nokian seems to be uni-directional.

It leaves you with an odd dilemma if you puncture and have to fit spare "out in the wild".

You can still fit it and drive to the garage where the same tyre could be mounted anew or a punctured tyre mended.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@tinabf, depends a bit I guess on how reliant on the car you’ll be - ie are you on arias that’d be cleared quickly by snowploughs or up a track? Megeve is pretty low so I’d imagine it’d be clear a lot of the time (?) and if you weren’t relying on the car and on a main road then I’d think any decent all season would do with the benefits others have suggested about being able to leave them on all year. If you’re in the back of beyond and absolutely reliant on the car then proper winter tyres might be worth considering? Either way a set of snow chains in the boot are essential and would get you out of serious bother!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@lib-banana, @tinabf, be carefull - not all all-season tyres are equal! Some are summer biased, some are winter biased. Same applies to winter tyres (not all are equal) - check tyrereviews website for advice and comparisons. I go Pirelly for summers and Nokian for winters for my driving style and destinations.
For a small car as Tina’s, tyres will be small and price difference between premium marks and nonames will be minimal.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Trying to decide on which tyres to fit on our Volvo XC90 so reading this thread with interest. Feel like I am on a maasive learning curve re tyres. Currently have Pirelli Scorpian M & S ( in the past we have used Pirelli All season Verde or zero depending in what local garage has had in stock - and I don't know what the difference is between these 2 tyres). Don't want to go down the route of winter tryes as we only need for two ski hols in the Alps and Uk winter ( plus we are South East so only likely to see a few snow days at home). So choice is the Michelin Cross climate or an All season tyre with a bias to snow ( ideally with a snow symbol). Also drive to Alps in the summer so an economic tyre also good but far more concerned re safety in the snow. Amazingly, have not had to put chains on yet despite coming out of Moutiers with D90 in snowy conditions a few years ago and most other cars at a stand still. Would welcome any more feedback on the Michelin cross climate ( compared to the Pirelli tyres we currently have) or other recommended options. We stay in Brides les Bains so only 600m but drive up daily to Meribel or La Tania ( 1300/1400) unless roads look awful in which case we take the Gondola up. Many thanks
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam, I am similar sotuation to you and opted for Cross Climate+ for a Merc E-Class AWD. I live in London and will do a couple of week-long trips trips every winter to Chatel and have good chains as a backup. I will be there this weekend where there may be a ‘snow event’ and will be able to test them out.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam wrote:
Trying to decide on which tyres to fit on our Volvo XC90 so reading this thread with interest. Feel like I am on a maasive learning curve re tyres. Currently have Pirelli Scorpian M & S ( in the past we have used Pirelli All season Verde or zero depending in what local garage has had in stock - and I don't know what the difference is between these 2 tyres). Don't want to go down the route of winter tryes as we only need for two ski hols in the Alps and Uk winter ( plus we are South East so only likely to see a few snow days at home). So choice is the Michelin Cross climate or an All season tyre with a bias to snow ( ideally with a snow symbol). Also drive to Alps in the summer so an economic tyre also good but far more concerned re safety in the snow. Amazingly, have not had to put chains on yet despite coming out of Moutiers with D90 in snowy conditions a few years ago and most other cars at a stand still. Would welcome any more feedback on the Michelin cross climate ( compared to the Pirelli tyres we currently have) or other recommended options. We stay in Brides les Bains so only 600m but drive up daily to Meribel or La Tania ( 1300/1400) unless roads look awful in which case we take the Gondola up. Many thanks


I used the Pirelli Scorpions on a big 4x4 and prefer the Michelin Cross Climate's (they come in an SUV variant for heavier 4x4 load ratings) both summer and winter - with regular trips from the South East over to Switzerland in the winter. As tyres have worn on our other cars (our children drive), I have changed them to Cross Climate's too and have been happy with the additional grip in both rain and snow.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
foxtrotzulu wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@foxtrotzulu, interesting...

Tirerack says, about the AT 2, “While non-winter tires featuring the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol provide additional longitudinal snow traction beyond what all-season (M+S) tires not bearing the symbol can deliver, they do not match the capability of a true winter tire in all adverse weather conditions.”


The AT3s are, I understand, quite different from the AT2s, but don’t ask me how!

The problem, as I understand it, is that the requirements of an off-road Tyre are almost diametrically opposed to those of a winter tyre. For off road you want big chunky blocks and a hard compound to withstand abrasion. A winter tyre doesn’t really need blocks (more rubber on the road the better) and a nice soft compound. No idea how they manage the. I promise with the AT3, but it’s a good tyre. However, I doubt it’s quite as good as a tyre designed 100% for cold/snowy on-road conditions, but it stops me wrestling with wheel changing twice a year.


Just to add that I had these on my Defender during my last season, and they were fabulous in deep snow snow conditions, and on compacted snow. Gendarmes always looked at the tyre and waved me on when asking other folk to fit chains.

However, a full winter tyre by Nokian, as fitted to my friend's 4x4 (which lives in Chatel) is notably more confidence inspiring on hard ice (as opposed to snow). And that really is down to the softer compound. However they are noisier, and the car feels a bit more remote at motorway speeds compared to the AT3s. I also understand that in truly hot, summer conditions, they can be a bit scary - so really are a winter only option.
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IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam wrote:
Trying to decide on which tyres to fit on our Volvo XC90 so reading this thread with interest. Feel like I am on a maasive learning curve re tyres. Currently have Pirelli Scorpian M & S ( in the past we have used Pirelli All season Verde or zero depending in what local garage has had in stock - and I don't know what the difference is between these 2 tyres). Don't want to go down the route of winter tryes as we only need for two ski hols in the Alps and Uk winter ( plus we are South East so only likely to see a few snow days at home). So choice is the Michelin Cross climate or an All season tyre with a bias to snow ( ideally with a snow symbol). Also drive to Alps in the summer so an economic tyre also good but far more concerned re safety in the snow. Amazingly, have not had to put chains on yet despite coming out of Moutiers with D90 in snowy conditions a few years ago and most other cars at a stand still. Would welcome any more feedback on the Michelin cross climate ( compared to the Pirelli tyres we currently have) or other recommended options. We stay in Brides les Bains so only 600m but drive up daily to Meribel or La Tania ( 1300/1400) unless roads look awful in which case we take the Gondola up. Many thanks


I would look also at the Nokian Weatherproof which is described here: https://www.nokiantyres.com/all-weather-tyres/nokian-weatherproof-suv/ . I have Pirelli Scorpion Winters on our XC90 but would have probably preferred these for Southern England all year low faff factor. The Cross Climates seem to do very well in light snow , but Nokians I think better in Ice, Cold temps, aquaplaning - they are basically Scandi/Central European all seasons so aimed more at cold than warm in compound terms. I had them previously on a Skoda 4X4 estate and they didn't need chains or socks on compact ice in reasonable uphill gradient (where I also used full winters (Contis) on a VW Sharan and they did).

I know everyone has a downer on socks but I think they have an excellent use case for some people - i.e. I know that on these kind of tyres and can get from Calais all the way to the base of my big hill on the Autoroute without chains or socks and from there I know its only "up" and therefore if I do fit them it won't be "on/off" like parts of the Tarentaise. I carry Socks and sometimes a cheap pair of chains , but I have never had a problem with the socks from the 74 dept Gendarmerie.

If I was the OP I would think very seriously about some socks , very easy to get on and off and easy to live with for the last (10/20) miles.
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