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Ski Club of Great Britain removes Fogg Card insurance

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've just been sent my renewal documents for Platinum SCGB and note they have have withdrawn the Fogg insurance element of its travel insurance policies.

As I understand the Fogg card was used like a carte neige - to get you off the mountain without shelling out cash.

I've been told that the card was not accepted by enough mountain rescue companies and that the insurance was causing frustration to members.

In my eyes the club has simply downgraded the policy it sells to its members - now I see it as almost inevitable that we will have to pay for any mountain rescue at the point of delivery to a medical facility or other.

The SCGB seem to have down played this and on discussion with their insurance company they seem to give a very poor description of the downgrade.

Has anyone done any research into this?
thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
In Jan this year I had SKGB Fogg insurance, IM not SCGB member though Smile. I paid the £5ea to get the plastic cards, they never arrived, so I guess that was the start of it then.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
They are still advertising Fogg as part of their Platinum Membership insurance at £214 for a couple.
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Seahoob wrote:
They are still advertising Fogg as part of their Platinum Membership insurance at £214 for a couple.


Yep, here's the page https://www.skiclub.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/terms-and-conditions-platinum

Quote "Fogg Medi-card
Your Ski Club Platinum membership includes a Fogg Medi-card policy, which is valid for the period shown on your Fogg Medi-card. For Ski Club Active Leaders, your Fogg Medi-card policy is valid whilst leading in the current ski season only. This policy is complementary to and not a replacement for winter sports or other travel insurance.

You should read this policy carefully. If there is anything you do not understand, you should call The Ski Club of Great Britain on UK +44 (0)20 8410 2015, or write to Connect House, 133-137 Alexandra Road, Wimbledon, London SW19 7JY.

Insurer
Your Fogg Medi-card policy is underwritten by AGA International SA and is administered in the United Kingdom by Allianz Global Assistance and Fogg Travel Insurance Services Limited.

How your policy works
The Fogg Medi-card master policy is a contract between the policyholder and us . We will pay for any claim you make which is covered by this policy and happens during the period of insurance . The benefits and exclusions apply to you ."

So if they are advertising the Fogg Medi-Card but they are no longer actually providing it isn't that a wee bit naughty? Local Authority Trading Standards might take a rather dim view of such false advertising...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I too just recently received my renewal letter (platinum) and notice about it no longer including a Fogg card. I've been watching discussions about the Ski Club insurance (pre existing medical conditions etc) and the now lack of a Fogg card combined with an increase of membership fee means I have now down graded my membership and arranged my own single trip insurance with MPI. The figures make sense for my needs.
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At last a case worthy of Davina?
Ready the Gerry in defense?
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Fogg insurance with platinum membership ended 1st Oct 2018. I think @esaw1, won't be alone. I may cancel the whole lot as I'm only a member for insurance reasons.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 11-10-18 15:49; edited 1 time in total
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Interestingly when I called the Club the, as always, helpful person I spoke to straight away assumed it was due to insurance and made no attempt to persuade me to change my mind.
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I just came off the phone with the Ski Club GB. They say that the platinum cover will reimburse the costs of emergency rescue (within the amounts specified on the policy), the Fogg cover was meant to provide a means by which the rescuee would not have to fork out and then claim back. I gave them an earful about how they need to make this clear to their customers as many people do not have thousands of pounds to cover this whilst the insurance claim is sorted out. They are of the opinion that most policies work on the basis that they are now operating - I don't know if that is true or not but people need to be aware of what the arrangements are before they sign up to it.
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@lynnecha, I did exactly the same and for the same reason, I think it’s cost cutting and a significant downgrade, I suggested the if someone was hurt in an avalanche it could cost £30k or more and who was going to be able to pay that!
Personally I think there communication on the matter is nothing short of shocking and will probably abandon the ski club as a matter of principle.
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They have ended the card because the rescue and medical service providers weren't accepting it. You could flash your card all you wanted and they would still insist on swiping your credit card.

The solution is to call them as soon as you (or a friend) can and they will then handle all aspects and billing for your rescue, treatment and repatriation.

I've also moved to MPI but I understood the reasons for them dropping this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Having seen someone try and deal with them over a pretty major injury, my view has become that they weren't a lot of use two seasons ago, and sounds like even less use now.

I use them due to policy wording on off piste activity and cheap price, but have a credit card with massive limit due to zero faith whatsoever in insurance companies and watching the experience of a claim reinforced this for me.

Also note they cover many other activities in their policies which is useful, but if you think mountain rescue costs are crazy try getting a helicopter to take you for recompression treatment used on divers and can require multiple treatments before you can fly home. Included in their cover, and I guarantee there are hardly any members aware of the need to pay out potentially £100k (genuine numbers for that type of treatment, the alternative to which can be death, paralysis or a wheelchair for life) and doubt many have any chance of covering even the helicopter, let alone the treatment..
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
All good points - and understandable - I'm not sure which countries/resorts don't accept Fogg, but my major gripe is the lack of communication from the SCGB on this important matter - I now face buying carte-neige for the family as we seldom ski as one.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
When the underwriters of the SCGB policy declined to renew my cover because the "computer said no" after I had disclosed an innocuous and temporary medical issue I switched to another insurer. To give the added comfort I thought the Foogg card provided I joined the Austrian Alpine Club (GB) to benefit from its off mountain recovery insurance which, unlike Fogg, covers most of the world outside of the polar regions. Whether this is more widely accepted by the rescue teams I do not know, but another Snowhead might...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I see that the SCGB has now altered the wording in the Platinum membership T's & C's weblink I gave in my post yesterday to remove all references to the Fogg Medi-Card. Madeye-Smiley Perhaps someone at SCGB read this thread..... Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
They have/are reading the thread, I spoke to a very nice and understanding person about the matter. They are going to have some meeting and maybe recognise that the communication has been dire.
I told him that, IMHO, if the forum offered the same insurance as the SCGB then the SCGB would loose a significant number of members, of coarse no comment was made.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I strongly suggest joining the British Mountaineering Club and then using their insurance options, which are cheap compared with almost all other suppliers and rock solid. Off piste is covered in an option and the cover has been used by leading expeditions. It's brilliant.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just had a quick look at the BMC website for a individual Alpine cover worldwide £613.........
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lynnecha wrote:
I just came off the phone with the Ski Club GB. They say that the platinum cover will reimburse the costs of emergency rescue (within the amounts specified on the policy), the Fogg cover was meant to provide a means by which the rescuee would not have to fork out and then claim back. I gave them an earful about how they need to make this clear to their customers as many people do not have thousands of pounds to cover this whilst the insurance claim is sorted out. They are of the opinion that most policies work on the basis that they are now operating - I don't know if that is true or not but people need to be aware of what the arrangements are before they sign up to it.

I think this is probably true, in that the rescue costs are still covered. But there will be a need to show either a credit card or the insurance details at the point of rescue (and perhaps a chance to phone & check), whereas with Fogg, or Carte/Carre neige or similar, it is sufficient to just show the card/receipt. In most cases this needn't cause any significant delay - in the time taken for rescuers to arrive and strap up the patient, either they or their friends could be in touch with the insurer. But it does mean it is essential for people to have their insurance details, including emergency contact numbers, with them when they ski - it is surprising how many people say that their details are in the chalet / hotel / apartment. Sad
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@WASHOUT, ....grief....yes....but Europe including just about everything very else excludes is 198.00 for a family of 4 annual policy which is about 50 per person. Don't tell me that isn't cheap .... it is cheaper than any other provider I have contacted in the past.....
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@valais2 but i just bought a season pass for whistler Confused

TBH for a family in europe that is pretty good value. I have insurance with my credit card but does not include off piste without guide, card also covers family if I had any.....
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valais2 wrote:
... Europe including just about everything very else excludes is 198.00 for a family of 4 annual policy .
I must be missing something. Just got a quote, European cover, annual policy with standard winter sports, no additions (45 day limit, not longer) for a couple aged 52 and it came to £312.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hi Rob - who was that with? Is that the best you have found?
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I'm surprised the SCGB have not sent out an explanation of why members are being asked to pay higher subscription charges yet being offered a lower quality of insurance without any justification or explanation, it seems nothing short of remiss to me!
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jayne durham wrote:
Hi Rob - who was that with? Is that the best you have found?
Sorry Jayne, only just spotted that. I'm not due to renew my policy for a couple of months so I've not started looking yet, but that price was with BMC.
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@Charliee, the Fogg card thing was just an 'extra' that didn't work. Insurance prices increase all the time . I remember Direct Travel putting up thier premiums and reducing the amount of skiing you could do each year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Hells Bells, the Fogg card works in virtually all EU ski resorts. It was not an extra, it was an integral part of the insurance. To show the card prior to or during a rescue and not be asked for a credit card is a great benefit (perhaps consider a teenager who my be with friends but will almost certainly not have a credit card).
If I was to hazard a guess I would guess @Hells Bells, is associated with the SCGB as it the sort of lame excuse they have used.
When an intergalactic part of a product is removed it should be clearly communicated.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Laughing You're quite welcome to disagree with her - I do sometimes (when I feel brave) - but your inference that @Hells Bells is SKGB couldn't be further off the mark Laughing

I'm certainly not one to be making excuses for the Tea Club but they have products that suit some skiers well and don't suit others. I think, if you deal with them though, you need to go in knowing that if whatever you're transacting with them ceases to be to your taste, they generally won't appear to give a toss.
I'm not saying they don't give a toss: it's just that 14-15 years after snowHeads was created by an act that looked very much like they didn't give a toss, their PR doesn't seem to have evolved too far and we all too regularly get people complaining that 'they clearly don't give a toss'. Now I've met some very nice people associated with 'The Klub' and in person, they certainly seemed to give a toss very much and yet still, regularly, that's not the impression people seem to get.

In the end, they're not the only game in town so just find something you like better to do/buy/join/post on snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
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I thought their PR was run by their ambassador to sHs gerry. Never did a more charming and gracious individual tread tinterweb
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Charliee wrote:
... the Fogg card works in virtually all EU ski resorts ...
Not heard of the Fogg card. How does it / did it work in the event of an accident?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Charliee, I was implying that the card didn't work for SCGB, as a product, not that it didn't work in ski resorts. Maybe their insurance underwriter has changed or they no longer consider it essential. However, do the ski resorts know about it? How do you know it works in most of them. Because it said so in the bumf or because you've had experience of it?
@rob@rar, I suspect it is supposed to work by you just flashing it at the pisteurs and they shrug and say ' no problem' ? Whether that is borne out in practice is another matter. Unlike your Carte Neige, or ski pass insurance add-on which would.
Quote:

If I was to hazard a guess I would guess @Hells Bells, is associated with the SCGB as it the sort of lame excuse they have used.
When an intergalactic part of a product is removed it should be clearly communicated.
Laughing Laughing Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Charliee, I don't disagree at all with the principle behind the card, but as you clearly demonstrated in your OP it wasn't working was it?
Quote:

I've been told that the card was not accepted by enough mountain rescue companies and that the insurance was causing frustration to members.


Other insurance providers are available. https://www.fogginsure.co.uk/insuranceproductinformation.php
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
For me, the most revelationary take away from this conversation is that the Tea Club has gone intergalactic.
The Fogg card may not have been accepted in Andorra but it didn't half cut through the red tape for anyone injured in Andromeda.
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admin wrote:
it didn't half cut through the red tape for anyone injured in Andromeda.


That would’ve put a strain on it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
geepee wrote:
admin wrote:
it didn't half cut through the red tape for anyone injured in Andromeda.


That would’ve put a strain on it.


I think this discussion is getting a bit nebulous now.....
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....I hope the discussion doesn't end up in a Black Hole. Madeye-Smiley
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With such stellar contributions gentlemen, the sky is no longer the limit!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@admin, perhaps sHs is now reaching the zenith! snowHead
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Charliee wrote:
@Hells Bells, the Fogg card works in virtually all EU ski resorts. It was not an extra, it was an integral part of the insurance. To show the card prior to or during a rescue and not be asked for a credit card is a great benefit (perhaps consider a teenager who my be with friends but will almost certainly not have a credit card).

Whilst that is the intention of the card, it is simply not true that it is recognised as a guarantee of payment and definitely not "in virtually all EU ski resorts". The people who get you off the mountain want paying and they know that if they don't get the money off you there and then, that they'll be waiting many months before the insurer settles up and they also know that all the insurers quibble or 'cost contain' as they like to say. In France they will take carte/carre neige as a guarantee so, for the little it adds to the lift pass, you are best off taking it.

I spoke to someone who worked at the club and knows the back story and it is precisely because the Fogg card wasn't being recognised that it became pointless - so the Club have done the right thing in withdrawing it but maybe should have told people! The normal routine is to impound your skis while your credit card is violated, or one of your family or mates are frog marched to the cash point. In somewhere like Val D'Isere there is no point calling the cops because they won't be on your side.

I think what you have to always remember is that travel insurance is merely financial indemnity, the insurer does not have to step in and pay directly. The idea is that you pay, you claim, and the insurer pays you. It's ok with a bloodwagon rescue because it might mean a few hundred quid but choppers are a different matter - has your card got space for a £5k bill? A good insurer will step in and settle directly at that level but you never know, they don't have to and it is probably where the tactic of buying the cheapest falls flat on its ar5e.

It definitely varies country to country and even resort to resort. In France it is pretty clear cut that they want to see carte/carre neige or they want the money now and they won't care that you are injured while trying to get paid. To be honest it's another of their money-grabbing antics that puts me off going there too often. I got rescued once in Italy and there was no question of asking for money, they only cared about my welfare. In Austria I believe they rescue first and ask questions later too.

In America its automatically included in the lift pass most places - I think that is the civilised way to go.

This is the kind of thing the ski club should be doing - a table of what the rescue arrangements are resort by resort so you can go prepared!
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Maybe it's changed but in Courchevel in 2010 but for a piste rescue I simply filled in a form in the ambulance and paid at the office a day later with my credit card from memory it was about 500 euros.
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