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Return to skiing after injury sessions at Chillfactore?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I know there is the return to ski after knee injury, sessions run at Hemel centre with @Jonathan Bell and Warren Smith instructors.

But is there anyone providing this at Chillfactore? I know quite a few folks on the grapevine who would jump at this, including myself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Not to my knowledge, sadly. Just their own coaching or lessons + Warren Smith and In Depth.
Would be a good idea though, as you say - something else a little more up North at least.
(Probably not yet the time for freestyle jumps though... Toofy Grin )
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I would welcome one...i'm going there in the next few weeks after the leg break and would love some tips on what not to do.. not paying the silly money they charge though for 1 hour session
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@yorkshirelad and @Markhandford - could always team up and hire an instructor together (from CFe or others who teach there) to split the cost?
I might even chip in too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
not a bad idea Grizzler..i'd be up for that
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Im waiting to hear back from Jonathan Bell, his clinic has said they may be able to work this and are looking into it at the moment, however I know at
they have a consultation with physio beforehand, so they can see if you are actually ready for it rehab wise etc.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Markhandford, and well worth it. It really pushed me forward to be ready
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Try “In Depth”. I’d be surprised if Noel couldn’t work out something for you.
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@Markhandford, Was speaking with Warren Smith last night. They do the Hemel return to ski courses with JB. Told him there was demand at CFe. They do have an instructor who does CFe courses, so a possibility perhaps. It's getting the physio and medical input also, if you want them too. If it's pure instruction and confidence then In Depth or WS could doubtless put something together.
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i will listen to anything that will help me back, however i'm not into paying silly money Laughing
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@yorkshirelad, depends what silly money is, doesn't it?
As far as I see it, the ideal is to get a (your) doctor or physio to say that you are strong enough and to advise you over whether to brace or not, and as to what you should initially avoid. I did not have a skiing physio or doctor, but between common sense and what I could show them it was pretty obvious, and by taking it gently and starting slow and just for a few hours and one day, I could test what the knees would take and how they reacted.
The fundamental thing is to ensure that you have good basic technique, have good control throughout speeds and different ski movements and that you are not using more effort or strain than you need. (Ah - my mistakes nos. 1-3...) Biomechanical aspects are also worth exploring (this is where WS seem to take a different approach to some), although they should show up as technique aspects.
The headology is your own demon, but feeling that you have good technique and control is a good part of that.
Really, therefore, a 'check-up' or 'tune-up' lesson is what's needed for some. For others, lessons to improve their skills. But basically, I don't think there's a magic course to "help you back" or stop you reinjuring yourself over and above what every skier can get from any good instruction or lesson - and their associated costs. Once your muscles are strong enough and your knee not swelling or getting irritated (too much), take it easy, grit your teeth, pray and launch!
Cost wise, the WS normal group performance clinics are about £140 for 5 hours of tuition; can't remember ID prices but similar. Both will do private lessons per hour at about the same rate, shareable if required. Cheaper than in-house dome lessons; sometimes... (I've been lucky and signed up for some group dome lessons, and ended up being the only one there, so very cheap 1:1.)
Another approach is to go backwards a few steps and take group lessons on your basic technique, perhaps, just to get an outsider observing any faults or imbalances you have, and to regain your confidence and muscle memory.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
It was mainly to placate the wife....so i think I will do what I did after my knee injury....... ski easy for a while ..then ramp it up as I feel comfortable...then avoid other skiers so no more accidents..
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yorkshirelad wrote:
... then avoid other skiers so no more accidents..


Best advice Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A reply back for Wimbledon Knee clinic was a no for this year, as they only run their ski clinic for their own patients, and don't have any patients from the Manchester area, but may look in to the possibility of it for next year.

Im up for sharing the cost of a suitably experienced instructor who knows what she/he is actually supposed to do with skiers with no acl. I don't care if all they have is basic ski quals, but do care that they have worked with injured folks before.

I think for me it will be more like late November/early December and would obviously prefer to have the whole place to myself Smile
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm going to do the CFe breakfast club on a wednesday moring at 7am, two hours on groomed quiet piste !!! plenty of room to practice all i've not learnt over 35 years ..lol
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Markhandford wrote:
Im up for sharing the cost of a suitably experienced instructor who knows what she/he is actually supposed to do with skiers with no acl. I don't care if all they have is basic ski quals, but do care that they have worked with injured folks before.


I can't make my mind up on how important this is - after all, we all have different injuries and persisting problems to some degree and are all worried about different things or to differing levels. But there's nothing really special about us. Once fundamentally strong enough, once OK'd by the medics and braced-up if required, it's half psychological and confidence and half just learning or regaining and checking good technique: so any good instructor who can deal with this should be OK. I'm not sure how well any instructor can stop you reinjuring yourself or causing more irritation or wear and tear than necessary: that's kind of between God, your body, your risk decisions and your physio/doctor. I think it's down to you as the instructed to make it clear up front what you want, what problems or limitations you have and at what point you need to bow out if in pain or something isn't working for you. A good instructor should be able to work within what you want and are or are not capable of, and should be able to point out your faults and issues and help you with them or around them to as far as you can go at that time. They should, perhaps, help you to explore what you are capable of at this time (level, speed, aggressiveness, different conditions, different styles and techniques) and what you might need to avoid or change, and what you can concentrate on to make a technical improvement.

Having said that, my gut instinct still goes exactly with what you said. I want someone who understands having had injury or disability themselves (maybe surgery too), who understands confidence set backs, taking it easy and the actual biological functions of ACLs, other knee bits and so on. But then again, some super-confident expert skier who had immediate private ACL or knee surgery and the best supervised physio and rehab, and was back skiing at top level within 9 months with never a regret or twinge or swollen bit ever (so I hear the stories sometimes, it has to be said) is not going to be of the same mindset as me. So I'll accept anyone who understands physiology and injury as general concepts, has high technical knowledge which incorporates this, plus the ability and patience to cope with a confidence-lacking, easily a frustrated, over-thinking idiot who just wants to ski better rolling eyes

I have met several instructors at CFe alone who don't understand knee injury, never had one, don't really know what an ACL is, etc etc - and certainly show no understanding or sympathy when it comes to me as a skier with a problem which I'm worried about or feel is hampering my skiing. Not all of those were CFe employees: one was a senior person for one of the recommended coaching courses held there, another couple also instructors for one of the external coaching companies. I was not impressed.
I have also met many instructors and coaches generally who have no tolerance for or understanding of people who carry injuries or problems full stop, wherever they are and however they affect your skiing. (e.g. upper limb, shoulder, back).

So I'm really not sure how far this gets anyone forward, except that recommendations and research seem vital. My instinct on my limited experience would be to go with the WS coaches, as they do the RTS courses with Wimbledon Clinic, and seem quite into biomechanics and the like: but I don't know who actually teaches the RTS course as opposed to who often does the CFe courses.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Grizzler, i might be wrong but i seem to recall Rory from WS did my return to ski course but WS could tell you
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I had a one to one session with Noel Grimes of In Depth Snow Sports today. I mentioned this thread and the OP’s question. He said they do tailored rehab coaching sessions in conjunction with some of the physios from disability sports uk. I told Noel that he should say as much on his web page. He agreed. But the bottom line is he can provide bespoke rehab coaching.
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@Markhandford,
We do take people on the Return To Ski day at Hemel who haven’t had their treatment under us but the main focus is our post surgical patients who want to be back skiing the winter after their injury. To that end we have been very successful. However we are also very careful to make sure we don’t encourage anyone to come who isn’t ready physically. That’s why we need the medical/ physio input. If some one is a bit short we can suggest what needs to be done to achieve the gains needed.
I’m afraid to try and run the assessments in another city is not going to be easy even if we were to come to Chillfactor for the day.

If there is enough demand to hold the ski day there I’d certainly do it but at the moment it is who carries out the assessment that is crucial and where all the risk lies. We are sometimes taking people onto snow when they have only had 6 months rehab after an ACL reconstruction. We have worked well with Warren’s excellent instructors because I’m very familiar with their teaching having done about eight weeks with them so from my point of view I know what I’m going to get on the day.
I’m sorry if it is inconvenient but I’m cautious about being more liberal with the risk management. It’s a very fine line between over ten years of no serious problems and a blown out knee.
The round trip to see us is a big commitment but our focus is really on those who will move heaven and earth to ski.
It’s my favorite work day of the year. There is something very special about seeing the transformation from patient to skier again .
I’m sorry you aren’t joining us. I’d suggest you do have a lesson or two when you return to skiing but please be sure you have recovered adequately before you do.
Jonathan Bell
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Jonathan Bell,
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you for posting and for the emails from your colleagues, I understand where you are coming from.

It has been some months since I came down and saw you, and rehab has been a bit forwards and backwards, but steadily improving, smashed quads are growing well, VMO has been a problem and a catching meniscus and swelling has also stopped play a couple of times.
I digress, the physio from Spire Yale has told me to go and ski as functional my strength is good, but quads in the injured side are still weak, but have very strong hamstrings now! a work in progress.

Many thanks
Mark
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@Awdbugga,
Is there anyone who does that at Llandudno slope?
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I'm not sure if relevant, but there is a thing in Manchester on 15th November which may be of use, and it's free.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/free-ski-fit-event-general-public-tickets-51014697333
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
slopemad wrote:
I'm not sure if relevant, but there is a thing in Manchester on 15th November which may be of use, and it's free.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/free-ski-fit-event-general-public-tickets-51014697333


That looks good. Unfortunately I'm at work til 10pm so can't make use of it Sad

Edit: might see if I can get a shift swap...
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Markhandford wrote:
@Awdbugga,
Is there anyone who does that at Llandudno slope?


No idea, I've never used it; even though it's on my door step. I always go to the Chillfactore. I doubt it somehow though. Sorry.
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Been today for my first skiing for 20 months since my broken bones....
went very well once i got passed the first few runs... still skied like a wooden top though, slow and steady. ... will be better next time,
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