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What difference do bindings make?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
After trying out the K2 missconduct’s last night, I have to say I rather fell in love with them.

Funnily I almost didn’t try them as they are a park ski.

Anyway, I currently have kneesafe bindings which my plan would be to switch those onto them if I buy them, but that has got me thinking. What difference do different binding make to how a ski feels when you ski in them? Would they feel different with my bindings in compared to whatever they had on last night?

Thanks
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More or less no difference. Jury still out on the Knees?
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The binding delta (difference in height between toe and heel) can make a difference to your stance and therefore how you ski.
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That is, @Tubaski, a fair point. But deltas can be adjusted.
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@under a new name, true that they can be shimmed in many cases (although not all..) but the OPs question was "Would they feel different with my bindings in compared to whatever they had on last night?", if the demo bindings had a different delta to the knee bindings then yes they could.
I've heard it suggested that one reason the same ski can get very different reviews is because the binding delta suits one reviewer but not another.
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@Tubaski, although I managed to ski happily and intensively for 34 years before stumbling upon SHs and hearing about delta for the first time, I am of the belief that my wife’s long standing Völkl preference and Rossignol dislike is down to delta.
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Tubaski wrote:
The binding delta (difference in height between toe and heel) can make a difference to your stance and therefore how you ski.


Hmm, so how do I find that out for the ones that were on there last night and my knee safe bindings?

And thank you was starting to suspect this was possible.
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@NickyJ, what model were you skiing on.

And while it’s possible... it only makes a difference if you are delta sensitive. I am not.
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K2 Missconduct 159cm. I didn’t think to look at the bindings though Happy
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My skis (second hand) had Knee bindings on them. If yours are similar then they seem to me that the sole of the boot is quite high off the ski. I would assume that would make a difference but not huge...@Spyderjon is the man to ask though.
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http://www.kneebinding.com/KB-Product-Specifications.aspx Looks like 3mm-6mm by default, but 'configurable' (whether that is by shimming or some adjustment I can't see). As you say @Spyderjon is da man.
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I'd say considerably more than 6mm
http://www.kneebinding.com/Content0910/Carbon-SIDE-LG.JPG
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I think that's an optical illusion, maybe because the heal and toe are cose together making the angle bigger. If you use the brake arm for scale and assume thats 4.5-5mm (the 4 pairs I have to hand are all different makes and are all in that range) it doesn't look far off to me.
You can measure the delta by placing a piece of card wider than the ski under the toe and heel of a boot and clipping it in, and then measuring the distance between the base and the cards (at right angles to the base). Subtract the toe measurement from the heel.
Just curious, @under a new name, do you have largish feet? I'm thinking the longer the binding is set the less angle is created by the delta, so the less it affects the stance presumably. I'd guess that it's more of us with small feet and so also more likely to affect ladies who generally have smaller feet? Ring true, or not?
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I’ve never heard of delta and doubt it makes a huge amount of difference to the average 2-3 week a year skier.....if you’re Marcel Hirscher then maybe but for your ordinary Joe then I’d suggest just jump on ‘em and go.
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@Tubaski, oh, okay. I better take mine back then because the measure from top of ski to where the sole of the boot rests is about 20mm. Not sure if that's where the standard measure would be taken to/from though NehNeh Wink

BTW I'm referring to height of boot from ski, not delta. As Markymark says the delta probably doesn't make much difference to us norms.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 7-10-18 12:51; edited 1 time in total
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@SnoodlesMcFlude, it's the difference between front and rear rolling eyes
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@Tubaski, not what I was referring to

My skis (second hand) had Knee bindings on them. If yours are similar then they seem to me that the sole of the boot is quite high off the ski. I would assume that would make a difference but not huge...@Spyderjon is the man to ask though.
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@SnoodlesMcFlude, Ah, I see. Hadn't clocked that you weren't talking absolute height, not delta, whereas my post was about the delta between front and rear. We were rather at cross purposes.
IIRC, in theory the boot being higher off the ski makes it easier to edge, this is one reason why there are FIS regulations about binding height for racing.
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@Tubaski, I have quite small feet, EU 39.
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@under a new name, ta, same as me, that blows that theory then Laughing
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Delta makes a huge difference for a small number of people irrespective of their ski level. Ski gear is made with average individuals in mind. If you are not average in some way e.g. freakishly large calves (me) then you may not balance properly in your setup.

Conversely, if you are the person Mr Salomon had in mind when they designed their boots, then happy days. It would probably be possible to design a boot binding combination that would mess with your stance but as that would be very silly, no one seems to have bothered (although dynafit vertical sts and something like a Garmont Axon should be uncomfortable for a lot of people).

Knee bindings make an OEM shim kit if you need to alter the toe height.
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Quote:

Delta makes a huge difference for a small number of people irrespective of their ski level


I am prepared to accept that. snowHead

You have (and want) no idea what hideous kit I have skied on where delta was the very least of the worries. (I recall earwigging two ESF instructors in 1990 discussing whether the skis [and bindings!!] I was on were late 50's or early 60s...) I think such experience makes you adaptable.
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gorilla wrote:
Delta makes a huge difference for a small number of people irrespective of their ski level.
It makes a big difference to me, and I think always has done regardless of how well or how ineptly I skied. Looking back there have been several pairs of skis that I really didn't get on with, and sold on fairly quickly. At the time I assumed it was the ski I didn't like, but I think from recalling what bindings were being used it was almost certainly the delta angle of the binding which was pushing me in to the backseat (heel-high binding setup) so I never skied them as well as I could, always fighting with my fore/aft balance. As I've got better as I skier I now understand the effect delta has on me, and try to get bindings which can be set or shimmed to a zero delta (toe binding and heel binding set at the same distance from the ski's base).
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