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My current worst skiing flaw

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Arctic Roll, I agree and said as much in my post above.

At the end of the day I think there are many similarities between skiing pistes and driving. With skiing we don't have the benefit of mirrors, which means we become very reliant on those behind us being proactive about keeping us safe. If tapping poles means you alert somebody to your presence and it prevents an accident, then in my books, that's being proactive. Of course the ideal proactivity is to ski well clear, but there may be a time where that just - for whatever reason - doesn't happen. The worst thing you can do as the downhill skier though, is remain in your world of entitlement where it is the uphill skier's problem and theirs only. Deliberately skiing in a manner that doesn't allow them through is as irresponsible as their offending behaviour, really.

I think people hold on too tightly to the belief that it's the uphill skier's problem. In your car you wouldn't park up for 5 minutes in the middle of the motorway, or join a busy A-road from the lay-by without checking your mirrors. Yes the downhill skier has right of way but it doesn't absolve them from having to ski courteously.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
One man's flashing headlights and riding on your bumper is clearly another's just so you know I'm here no pressure when it comes to pole clicks.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
One man's flashing headlights and riding on your bumper is clearly another's just so you know I'm here no pressure when it comes to pole clicks.

Yup. It's those diverging interpretations/uses, that cause the differences of opinion (IMV).
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gazzaredcruiser wrote:
@rob@rar saying "I'm a fairly experienced skier" is like saying Ronaldo he's quite good at football!!
Kind of you to say, but that does a considerable disservice to the considerable talents of Ronaldo. Mine are much more meagre.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
pieman666 wrote:
Pole tapping is like flashing your headlights in the outside lane of the motorway. To me it smacks of I'm more important than you get out of my way.
To me this is very simple so I don't think we need an analogy to make sense of it. But if we did I think it's much closer to driving behind somebody in Lane 1 at 55mph and flashing your lights. They have every right to drive there at that speed, and you should simply move in to Lane 2 or Lane 3 to pass them without "alerting" the driver in Lane 1 to your presence, or worse still try to intimidate them in to crossing to the hard shoulder. It might well be that Lane's 2 and 3 are a little busy in which case you hold position until it is safe to pass.

All of this is, of course, fairly tenuous as the clear rules of the road simply do not apply to the rather freewheeling nature of skiing (fortunately, IMO) beyond respecting the right of way of the skier in front / downhill of you.

I say again to those who advocate an audible warning - just what do you expect the skier in front to do with that information? If your answer is nothing, why on earth are you providing that information? If the answer is you would like the skier to do something, even if it as simple as holding course, then you are requiring the skier in front, who has right of way, to behave in manner which suits you. That, IMO, is not the right way to behave.
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Indeed @rob@rar, much better and as you say not really you needed.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@rob@rar, I don’t think that pole tapping to alert the downhill skier to your presence is about requiring them to do anything. In some situations I think it is merely a courtesy to let the other person know you are there. As we improve I think it can be easy to forget just how unsettling it is for an inexperienced skier to have someone pass them, (safely) but unexpectedly, at what might seem to be a close distance. Personally, I’m always much happier to have someone click their poles as they approach from behind than suddenly appear out of my blind spot. Apart from anything else I do think it reduces the considerable risk of collision on some of those narrow cat tracks.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@foxtrotzulu, it’s just not necessary, and IME more likely to disturb the skier than be helpful. You then get in to the discussion of what it actually means (eg, I’m just going to lurk behind you; I’m passing on the left; I’m passing on the right; please don’t make any sudden directional changes; etc; etc). Do skiers really need a warning that they are about to be passed on a cat track? What if your closing speed is quite large, just how loud does your audible warning need to be for any meaningful action or caution? There is no acceptable use of audible warnings for the skier in front of you, in my opinion, and only downsides in the minority of cases of nervous skiers. I really struggle to comprehend people here who I respect a great deal arguing that this is OK.
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@rob@rar, at the end of the day, it is OK. There is nothing in the FIS rules that says you can't can't pole click or ring a cow bell or wear a Fred Flintstone outfit and ski backwards down an icy cat-track, as long as you follow the rules. You might not like it but that's how it is. If i think it's useful to get out of a potentially tricky situation (for whatever reason that has come about) then i'll go right ahead and do it. Skiers know full well what a pole click means unless they've got L-plates in which case it's a useful lesson and their instructors should be advising them accordingly.

FIS Rule 3: Skiing and snowboarding are free activity sports, where everyone may move where and as they please, provided that they abide by these rules and adapt their skiing and snowboarding to their personal ability and to the prevailing conditions on the mountain.
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I simply don't feel strongly on the issue of Pole Clicking...but I don't have to teach nervous skiers and was never a nervous skier myself - and would never even have considered it as an issue, until this thread.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
@foxtrotzulu, it’s just not necessary, and IME more likely to disturb the skier than be helpful. You then get in to the discussion of what it actually means (eg, I’m just going to lurk behind you; I’m passing on the left; I’m passing on the right; please don’t make any sudden directional changes; etc; etc). Do skiers really need a warning that they are about to be passed on a cat track? What if your closing speed is quite large, just how loud does your audible warning need to be for any meaningful action or caution? There is no acceptable use of audible warnings for the skier in front of you, in my opinion, and only downsides in the minority of cases of nervous skiers. I really struggle to comprehend people here who I respect a great deal arguing that this is OK.


I disagree that it’s more likey to be disturbing than helpful. Being unexpectedly passed by someone whose pr sense you were unaware of can be even more disturbing. Neither of us can provide data to support our theory, but I’d wager than it’s prevented more accidents than it’s caused. What does it mean? Be aware, there is someone behind you who may be passing you. Closing speeds are seldom large as we are talking about people on cat tracks.

On the roads, the ‘downhill’ driver has right if way in almost every circumstance, but we still have rear view mirrors and are taught to use them frequently. That isn’t an easy option on skis and IMO pole tapping can serve as a useful substitute. It needs to be done politely and from a distance. I think the crux of the matter is that some downhill skiers find it helpful and some, apparently do not. Even when I was a more rubbish skier than I am now I never found pole tapping disturbing, but on occasion I can still find a scraping snowboard or a suddenly overtaking skier extremely disconcerting.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'll just say that if you get crashed into from behind while deliberately cruising 55 on a fully free flowing motorway or switching sides unnecessarily on a busy cattrack, you may be legally right but you lose my sympathy. And I bet your hospital bed isn't any fluffier.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I see too many implicit and explicit points there which require both clarification and a response. So I'm going to settle for... ???? Confused
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
In Whistler a few years ago surprised to hear a friendly voices, "coming by on your right" etc. etc. Might not work in St Anton!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
peter w, That's pretty normal in North America, for experience of many ski areas over there. You do hear pole clicking too, but not so often.
But cat tracks around beginner areas seem to be very few, the cat tracks are often for returning skiers from 'areas of interest wink ' which really wouldn't be suitable for beginners. The danger of anyone getting spooked would be minimal, and the chances of them making sudden erratic moves less so.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This is simple. My biggest flaw is being unfit. Being quite heavy and of rugby player build but since retired not of rugby player fitness I find I blow out really quickly. I’m obviously sat in the back seat too much so thigh burn out is prevalent. Next year I WILL be at least a stone or two lighter and I’m sure I will enjoy my skiing so much more.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nothing to do with pole clicking. Whilst skiing a few weeks ago a friend who was following me closely noted that on turning left there was a rooster tail from my skis whilst turning right no rooster tail. I had felt that I was beginning to become much more one legged, ie favoring my right leg, and wondered if anyone has drills or advise as to how to correct this. Thanks in anticipation of your replies.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@peter w, I wonder if it might not be worth starting a new topic in this section to ask for advice? This thread was always about overtaking on piste so you might get a better response that way snowHead
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And do you include deaf people in this group?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
EHHH?
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Sorry I was trying to reply to the poster referring to idiots with headphones
I obviously chose the wrong reply option.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If there is inusfficient room to get past safely i.e on a narrow piste, just slow down to traffic pace and wait.

I usually go to hard left side of the piste (I can turn left more easily than right) if it's busy so you only have people on your right. This way when overtaking I can take evasive action left into off-piste without affecting anyone else readily. Ski one side or the other and you're reducing risk of collisions, take one side out of play if you like. As others said you get to read the turns of those ahead but there is always that element of unpredictability you need to expect.

No substitute for experience.

Ski safe and be courteous to others.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

As others said you get to read the turns of those ahead but there is always that element of unpredictability you need to expect.


I've practically given up on reading that. I've witnessed far too much variability. Prefer to stay well back now n pass to their rear immediately after their turn. A pole-click gives them a heads-up Madeye-Smiley
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
my worst fault is dragging up old threads that generated mroe heat than light the first time round Very Happy
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My worst skiing flaw, ( I have many but this is my worst) is not quitting when I am ahead. I just keep thinking that one more lift before they close is a good idea, . rolling eyes .
On passing someone and alerting those in front , sometimes it is needed. I had a close call on a path this year, it was one of those little roads where you had to schuss like hell to get up the hill at the end. Everyone was doing so and I was behind this man who was going like hell, so there was no problem, until as I was just about to pass him, ( he wasn't turning) he decided to pull into the side and wait for his buddy, . As this was just short of the top of the hill it was a surprise that he did so, I let a squeak go, and he stopped his turn. I couldn't turn around him as I was right beside him.
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