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What happened over on Epic?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well, it looks like "The Big One" finally hit Epic. This is the longest I've ever seen it down, and have never seen error messages like those that have been appearing.

I emailed AC and DC very early in the problem, while Epic was still partially functioning, but heard nothing back. Anyone know anything about what's going on?

Tom / PM
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
They've finally realised that competing with snowHeads is a non starter, so have done the decent thing and shut down Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
who are EPIC?
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Dan, www.EpicSki.com
An excellent ski discussion forum based in the US.
Membership was about 6,000 last time I checked, it's been going for several years, and includes some excellent skiers.
I hope it gets up and running soon. Failing that, we could have an invasion here of US skiers!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tom / PM, me too, well, I guess we have to be patient and keep our faith.
I'd be very sad if Epic were to disappear for good.
sometime ago I asked what people here thought of a kind of "twinnig" between Snowheads and Epic, how could such a thing be put in effect? How would it be received/perceived by the users? By the Forums moderators/owners?
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
So what's the deal between Epic & Snowheads. Do they not cater for different people i.e. this is mainly born from the SGGB closure and Epic seems to have been around for a while??????
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Well, my perceived feeling is that more or less the same kind of people "hang" around here and there, age group, cultural views and the likes.
Not to mention that some "Snowheads" used to be there and some "Bears" used to be here even before the Epic crash...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think you'll find that Snowheads has a much lower level anal gazing/inspection and a much healthier attitude to open discussion. Sad
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The 2 are similar in that they are full of snow mad junkies!! but they do seem to cater to different needs.
Epic seems to have more experienced skiers - with some very technical discussions - a bit intimidating for people new to the sport - although very friendly all the same. Also very US based. Also arranges expert tuition???
This site seems to have more novices taking part - so is probably a bit easier for people new to skiing and discussion boards.
Hope they go back online soon - as quite enjoyed 'lurking' there...
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Matteo - I don't think Epic will disappear for good because of this incident. AC/DC are aware of the problem and appear to be working on it. On the main page of Epic (ie, not the main page of the discussion forums), they put up a notice: "Attention: The forum is temporarily down while we manage some back-end issues. We apologize for the inconvenience."

I suspect that this incident may prompt Augie to do the major upgrade / changeover that he has been thinking about. Unfortunately, all of the work will probably fall on him.

I agree with you that both Epic and Snowheads seem to attract similar participants. "Civil" and "non-juvenile" are the first words that come to my mind, when comparing these two to other skiing forums places like rec.skiing.alpine, powdermag.com, TGR, etc.

Your "twinning" concept sounds interesting, but I don't know exactly what that would mean for two forums. Care to elaborate?

Tom / PM
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I don't really know, maybe as a start, a common registration site (i.e. users registering on one side will be automatically registered on the other)?
A topic container named "Snowheads threads" and "Epic threads"?
Just killing time....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
> ...Epic seems to have more experienced skiers - with some very technical discussions - a bit intimidating for people new to the sport - although very friendly all the same.

Good point. Epic has a very knowledgable and serious crowd. If I had to guess, I'd say that at least half of the active participants on Epic either are instructors, patrollers, former instructors/patrollers, or recreational skiers with at least 15 years experience. Among the instructors, Epic has an astonishing number of ski school heads, PSIA examiners and other PSIA bigwigs that actively participate.

PSIA tried to start up a discussion forum, but it never seemed to take off. It was suggested that PSIA's insistance on the use of real names stiffled open discussion. Many of those people seem to have gravitated over to Epic. The neat thing is that non-pros are welcomed on Epic, and do participate extensively, but as has already been pointed out, Epic can be intimidating to relative newbies.

As Fox can attest, I can be as serious as the next guy on Epic, but to me, the refreshing thing about Snowheads is that its more laid back than Epic without going to the "Yo, dooood ... shizzle" extreme of places like TGR and Powder.

Tom / PM
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
This is what I've been trying to stress about this site. If it was cooperatively owned there would be the occasional paralysis and argument, but ultimately a group of people would give the car a push.

Epic is the sole property of one man, as I understand it, so it lives or dies accordingly. Are we not exposed to the same threat?

I've said it before. I'm happy to pay a sub if this site is co-owned, which I think would provide an indefinite future for Snowheads. But ultimately I absolutely respect U-brain's speed and talent in setting it up, and creating such fun for us, and it's his baby.

I don't change nappies, BTW.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
David Goldsmith wrote:
This is what I've been trying to stress about this site. If it was cooperatively owned there would be the occasional paralysis and argument, but ultimately a group of people would give the car a push.

Epic is the sole property of one man, as I understand it, so it lives or dies accordingly. Are we not exposed to the same threat?

I've said it before. I'm happy to pay a sub if this site is co-owned, which I think would provide an indefinite future for Snowheads. But ultimately I absolutely respect U-brain's speed and talent in setting it up, and creating such fun for us, and it's his baby.

I don't change nappies, BTW.


Good points but another viewpoint might be that we're none of us commited to this forum, if it went away and something else came along we'd go there. Afterall, that's what effectively happened with the SCGB situations. The internet being what it is then it's a safe bet that something would come along.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Goldsmith, Epic is owned by one guy - i.e. he pays the bills, etc, but he does have an assitant who has full administrator rights, and has done a lot of work on the site keeping it going. The problem if the numbers of owners increases is that when decisions need to be made (such as switching servers, etc), it takes far longer.
Nothing ever gets done efficiently by committee, and that's why I'm happy with two guys being in charge of Epic.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
David Goldsmith wrote:

I don't change nappies, BTW.


I do.

Different internet ski sites are like different bars. The time difference means us Europeans sometimes miss the most active threads on the American sites and I trust the reverse is true. Keeping them separate but allowing free entrance to all (hell even if they are a Yank with a comody wig living in Suffolk) gets my vote.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If the sysop of Epic decided he didn't have the time to devote to it anymore, I'm sure some of the 6000+ members would step up and volunteer to take over or set up an alternative location.

On the other hand, one of the most important aspects of sites like these is the wealth of archived technical information available. IMHO, if something happened that the Epic archives were lost, it would be a tragedy. As DavidG pointed out, that's exactly what can happen when control is in the hands of one person or organization.

In fact, that IS exactly what happened on PowderMag.com. Some newbie IT guy decided that he needed space on their server, so he deleted all threads over a month or two old. In doing that he deleted tens of thousands of ski photos, wonderful trip reports, equipment reviews, humor, banter, etc. The Maggots were so outraged that they voted with their feet and immediately moved over to TGR.

A co-op arrangement would certainly lessen the chance of something like this, but IMHO, the only guaranteed way to preserve such info is to copy threads of particular interest onto your own machine. Fortunately, some people on Powder had been doing this, and some of the best of the old threads have been re-posted on TGR.

Tom / PM
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Whenever I've checked out Epic I've found it to be completely US biased (which is fine, just not for me Wink ). One of the things that I like about snowHeads in the focus more towards European skiing - which is where I spend my snow hours.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
> ...I've found it to be completely US biased

That's the problem with lots of 'merricuns. Wink

Tom / PM
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Physicsman, Speak for the rest of the brain dead munters over the pond.
(ps. I can be as nasty as I like since regrettably, GW Buttƒart is my unelected puppet dictator)
Skullie
I prefer civilisation!
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Masque, if you prefer civilisation, the best thing to do - in my experience - is to retreat into a cave.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Goldsmith wrote:
Masque, if you prefer civilisation, the best thing to do - in my experience - is to retreat into a cave.


Until the feeling wears off.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
We all know someone who lives in a cave. He doesn't prefer civilisation...
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
True. I've never seen him pop up on Epicski either.

Has anyone met him on a chairlift?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Can you carve on a prayer-mat?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
depends how shar your edges are.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So, when did epic tumble into its crevasse, and how long has it been down there?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Since monday, I think.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wear The Fox Hat, don't you mean "...how shia your edges..?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Goldsmith, http://www.stephenasmith.com/stuff/BushUnmasked.html one of the better ones. Twisted Evil
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Physicsman wrote:

A co-op arrangement would certainly lessen the chance of something like this, but IMHO, the only guaranteed way to preserve such info is to copy threads of particular interest onto your own machine.
I must disagree here I'm afraid. I think such arrangements have little bearing on data integrity. Good IT policy is very straightforward when based around the simple principle that "One can not rely on Data existing until it is in more than one place".
In the example discussed above, an individual with technical responsibilities deleted the data. He and his predecessor were responsible between them for that data not existing elsewhere. This could just as likely have occurred were these people appointed by a committee or a dictator.

To re-assure you all: the contents of our server are automatically backed up as part of our hosting arrangement. Furthermore, I am in the process of setting up a development version of the server for my own use offline. Soon, the whole snowHeads database will be duplicated for that purpose and I expect I will regularly update my copy because it makes me feel better.

Of course, this does not account for the possibility that I might go a bit loony and write a database query that replaces every word in the database with "blah" but I suggest that the bigger the committee in charge above me, the more likely that is to occur Wink


Regarding the old co-ownership chestnut: There are a number of people here who have generously devoted much of their free time to the benefit of snowHeads but AFAIK they have all (just about) maintained their jobs too. I however, have eschewed any other 'gainful employment' since Feb 5th.

I've not missed the fact that if there was some kind of co-ownership arrangement, some individuals would be prepared to put more into snowHeads than they do now. Also, I am not blind to the option of being, personally, 'a smaller part of a bigger thing'. However, I am not yet aware of any co-ownership arrangement that would bring enough resources into the system to compensate for my own efforts.

Many people have been very generous with their voluntary donations, some even giving money more than once already but this has by no means covered my most basic living expenses. The fact that snowHeads is 'mine' is the only sane explanation why I have worked on it full-time for the last 3months (excepting 2wks skiing).

If it was co-owned (whether by partnership or co-operative) I would either need to moderate my input to a level consummate with what everyone else was putting in (how does one measure this?) or I would need to be compensated fairly for my work by 'the organisation'.
How would snowHeads afford this?
Compulsory subscription to access the forum?
As I've said before, I regard this to be against snowHeads' primary ethos.

Can a community be privately owned?
Of course not, but some or all of the places they meet and the resources/services they use can be.
Is there an alternative way that would better benefit the community?
I'm all ears Big Wink Big Wink (sorry no 'ears' smilie - where's that chief-smilie-maker when U need him?)
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
wandering gleefully off topic again (forgive me admin) but David Goldsmith, want to label this http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/10734799 as part of a 'civilised' society? We're all safer here, even with Jonpim blinking at us over the top of his mask! Shocked
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque, "What a good idea!" - Ghandi, on being asked what he thought of western civilisation.

Sorry admin, back to the subject in hand....
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
New message on epic...


"Attention EpicSki Community:

The forum is temporarily down while we change servers and re-wire (so to speak) the software. This is the big fix we've been promising for some time, and it will take a few days due to the complexity of setting up a completely new server customized for EpicSki's growing needs.

If you have the forum bookmarked directly instead of accessing it through links on the EpicSki home page, then you will need to change the bookmark (the "Favorites" listing in your browser) as soon as the forum re-opens.

We all owe dchan a HUGE thanks for making this happen. EpicSki will perform far better after the switch. So stay tuned and get ready for a whole new era of EpicSki!

We apologize for the inconvenience.

-AC"
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks Fox.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I don't really understand why the whole forum needs to be shut down while they put their new one together. The only reason i can think of off-hand for taking it out would be a major restructuring of the database but still, once the process has been tested off-line, it should only take an hour or two at most to apply to the live system.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
They were probably hit by a virus, so chose this time to restructure.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
admin, the fact vis that they ran into troubles, as Elizabth says, either a virus, an hw crash, or a sw crash. So Epic owner has taken this opportunity to migrate to the new environment/site/software. A move which was already planned to happen, not at this time, just.
What do you think about the "twinning" thing?
Which is not to co-own anything...
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
In the absence of geographical boundaries on the internet, it would be very easy to perceive the two as being in competition with each other though: I don't know how aware the Epic Admin is of snowHeads' exsistence or what their attitude toward us is.
However, I'd be quite happy to forge "friendly links" between snowHeads and Epic.
I realise u were just thinking off the top of your head but I think it unlikely that Epic would wish to 'share' its user list with snowHeads though, given that they have 10 times our membership.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
admin wrote:
I don't know how aware the Epic Admin is of snowHeads' exsistence or what their attitude toward us is.


Search for snowheads when Epic comes back and you'll find out. I don't understand what a middle England gaperfest is. Maybe someone can help me out.
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