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Binding height on ski's - Can you change this?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've been having a think about why my Metron M9's are so easy to get on edge yet my B2's are comparitively a bit of a struggle.
After much head scratching I noticed that the M9's due to the railflex setup mount the boot base 47mm above the ski topsheet whereas the B2's with the Look P9 Lifters are lower at 35mm.
I'm reckoning this is the reason for the more sedate edge to edge behaviour of the B2's.
Would it be worthwhile raising the bindings on the B2's bearing in mind the intended use - 50/50% Off/On Piste?
I've never tried off piste properly so am wondering whether a faster edge to edge ski would make life difficult when venturing off pisted runs?
If any of you guys have any ideas or experiences like the above described be grateful for your advice/input.

Cheers,

Chris
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rockyrobin,

113/76/103 in 176cm (B2)

vs

122/74/108 in 157 cm (M9)

and a skier weight of 140lbs, Is that correct?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
comprex, Yeah - 140lbs, i'm a bit of a lightweight for my height - 5' 11".
My M9's feel like toys now Laughing so would ideally be on 164's now for them I reckon.
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rockyrobin, Probably best to leave your B2's where they are. Fast edge changes and lots of edge angle are techniques usually associated with hard (pisted) snow. In the soft and porridgey you want lots of sensitivity, so keeping your feet nearer the snow helps. The more sedate behaviour is (as well as the binding height) due to the different shape and flex of the ski.

50% off piste? - once you've got the hang of it - you'll be 100% Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I would guess that the under foot width - your M9s are narrower - may be part of the difference. I would have thought that increasing the lever length, i.e. the distance from the fulcrum, by lifting your boots would make them slower edge to edge. Certainly your boot has to move a greater distance.

Then again I've never really understood the terribly basic physics of lifter plates...apart from allowing more acute edge angles on narrow skis...
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David Murdoch, thread for you.

rockyrobin, I agree with ski and DM, and will ski all my fat skis flat until I can reach the nasty-terrain skill of skiers like ssh, i.e. when I can reliably use dynamic parallel turns over the entire mountain.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
comprex, Thanks for thread - opening in new tab as I type. Ah, your cunning diagram makes it clear. Now I understand, you are adding effective leverage - I'd never really though about fat skis in particular.

Now, IIRC lifters started appearing some years ago on skinny skis and I could not (still can't) understand the rationale behind that.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
David Murdoch, lifters are good on skinny skis as they stop your boots (which are wider than the skis) from digging into the piste as you carve your turns, you have to have these if you want to do truly tight parallel turns with carving skis or you will go flying
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Cheers guys for the advice Smile
I had a read through the thread on Epic and now I know why I may need lifter plates. Some great info there, cheers comprex.

I had a chat with a ski shop today and they are telling me that really I should be happy with the lift of the current risers that come as standard with my bindings for various reasons that have gone straight over my head Laughing They seem to feel my problem is more than likely my boots as I have very low volume feet with wide forefeet and high arches (duck feet?). Currently the boots I have are the right shell size but the liners really are not ideal for my feet.
I'm going in to see them in the next few weeks to take a looksee at my feet and boots and see if a better liner for my shells can be had. Looks like foam injected liners may be coming my way in the near future. I've been meaning to get this looked at for some time now anyway as i've not been happy and has not been a kneejerk reaction to the above, honest Laughing
I mentioned the idea of making some lifters out of polypropylene sheet but they feel that its not ideal as they've done them in the past and have found them to be not very durable due to cracking in extreme cold.
If the boots don't make me happy i'll have a looksee at whether one of my engineering friends would be willing to mill up a set of risers out of aluminium for me as a last resort.
In the meantime i'll keep working on my skiing technique as you guys probably realise this probably has something to do with all this and your just being too polite to tell me Wink Laughing
Seeing as I love blaming my kit for my problems i've just done a very small detune with a gummi stone on my B2's (5.5cm tips/4.5cm tails). Will see if this helps at all as I mentioned in one of my other threads.
Hehe, if this is what being out of season does to me I wish Winter would hurry up!
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Quote:

Hehe, if this is what being out of season does to me I wish Winter would hurry up!


You are not alone in this feeling wink
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rockyrobin, if you are truly determined to do this (please refer to Physicsman's point #3 in the Epic thread) then be aware that, at your weight, you do not need to make the B2s any stiffer.

A solid aluminium plate will change the flex, and might make it fast to edge, but will make the ski flex less. While this might make it better for some snow and worse for other snow, it will almost certainly reduce the overall versatility of the ski.

(PS if you want to really learn how to do a carving plate out of plastic, find someone who is about to skip some old (orange/black?) ESS 512 bindings with the orange 10mm plastic plate underneath. Each plate is a multi-density plastic, in two pieces, with a grooved slide in between, and all the screw holes are backed by Al or brass inserts. Truly wonderful work, you'd pay $200 for that as an accessory today.)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
D G Orf, quite. Actually I did know that particular bit, honest, but what I still don't understand is why they were hyped as being able (on skinny skis) to give you more leverage, improve your turns, etc.

Anyway, I guess the operative word is "hype".
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Murdoch, I doubt they can improve your turns, that takes practice, however they could be said to perhaps improve your capability to make carved turns, they certainly alter the point about which the forces act on the ski so they will have an effect in laymans terms on the leverage so perhaps not so much hype as just poorly explained, I noticed this year that I do better carved turns on my Head GS skis with riser plates than I do on my Head 28X skis without riser plates so they do have some effect
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
D G Orf, ah, but not the most controlled experiment - is it the plates or the difference in skis?... Puzzled

AFAI can determine the 28x was/is an all round, intermediate->advanced ski. If that is the case then I'd expect a GS skis to hold a carve better? I's sure you're right though, marketing piffle rather than real engineering. A few years before lifters ventured out from the WC circuit and found themselves in the "real world" tecnica were marketing the TNT as getting you closer to the ski and had a carbon fibre shank to retain rigidity while enabling a thinner sole.

Hey ho...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Murdoch, a GS ski would hold a carve better, but it would take more work to get it into that carve in the first place.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
David Murdoch, WTFH is correct the GS skis are seriously stiff so require more force to get them to carve, however for me this is not a problem Twisted Evil Laughing
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D G Orf, yes, I've heard you're very forceful... Wink
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Wear The Fox Hat, Twisted Evil
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