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What is a "punter ski"?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just wondering what people mean by this term. Surely a good ski is a good ski, period?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I mean good and bad Very Happy

The good, you want a ski that's versatile, handles whatever your couple of weeks a year throw at you and doesn't require the fitness or ability of a world cup racer to use, for me the B2 is the ultimate ski here but there's others around. It's a punter ski and I've got a pair Very Happy

The bad, the ski everyone buys because the magazine told them it was the above Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Kramer, I think first you have to define a "punter" and excuse me if I am about to deliver an egg-sucking lesson.

As far as I know - a derogatory term used in many industries for paying clients (I have a particular dislike of it I must confess). Funnily enough, the epithet is more often used for men than women possibly as said "punter" has already tried the time honored pursuit "pull the chalet girl". Anyway...

Punter skis IMHO are basic, will slide downhill, will turn to a degree, will not help anyone progress and are designed to allow multiple rebuilds by the hire shops (if you're hiring) or maximum markup to manufacturer or shop (if you're buying). But if you're "just a punter" 1. you'll never notice and (if one is feeling particularly cynical) 2. who cares anyway?

All in all not very good things at all!
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Aha. Kramer, I think I just found the thread engendering your query.

ise, I am going to disagree. I don't think the B2 is a "punter ski" in the way that I and people I talk to describe. It's not particularly challenging and it is very accessible to very many levels of ability but offers pretty decent performance in many situations. I see many instructors using them as work skis. In fact what would you list as NOT punter skis?

That said, I skied some Sallie "Scramblers" in January and I would (did) describe them as a punter ski! Err, they would do what you wanted to do (as long as you didn't get too demanding), they required minimal input, were very forgiving and gave nothing back. Perfect for the average, err... (I really hate this word), "punter".

What's the difference between that and a B2? The scramblers had radically less performance and required minimal input to get them to work whereas the B2 has quite a lot of performance and can be skied quite hard.

Oh dear, circular argument, talked myself back into a corner solution again haven't I? I suppose it's really all a matter of opinion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Murdoch wrote:
Aha. Kramer, I think I just found the thread engendering your query.

ise, I am going to disagree. I don't think the B2 is a "punter ski" in the way that I and people I talk to describe. It's not particularly challenging and it is very accessible to very many levels of ability but offers pretty decent performance in many situations. I see many instructors using them as work skis. In fact what would you list as NOT punter skis?

That said, I skied some Sallie "Scramblers" in January and I would (did) describe them as a punter ski! Err, they would do what you wanted to do (as long as you didn't get too demanding), they required minimal input, were very forgiving and gave nothing back. Perfect for the average, err... (I really hate this word), "punter".

What's the difference between that and a B2? The scramblers had radically less performance and required minimal input to get them to work whereas the B2 has quite a lot of performance and can be skied quite hard.

Oh dear, circular argument, talked myself back into a corner solution again haven't I? I suppose it's really all a matter of opinion.


I disagree that you disagree Very Happy The all round nature of the B2 makes it a punter ski, or more to the point ideal for the punter. That they buy the "S" skis is another part of being a punter Very Happy
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Bah, this anti-Salomon stuff is getting a bit much! Thank goodness at the British Children's in April, every other Children 1 girl in sight was stuffed by seconds by a half-French girl on Salomon GS's and SL's Razz NehNeh Laughing

After a few excursions on my Scrambler 8Ps, I'm well satisfied. And if I need anything a touch less "general purpose", there are always my old 3Vs, the Crossmax's, or the SLs. At my age (and current height/weight/fitness ratio) the Scream 10s would be wasted on me.

Nowt wrong with Salomons. Unless we're pretending to be something we're not!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
PG, no such ski now anyway, it's all Atomic isn't it Very Happy We like Atomic ...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Well, there is that!

Looks like the Boix-Vives family who owned Rossignol are getting out none too soon either. Despite a slight increase in turnover earlier in June they posted a 22.8 million euro deficit for the last 12 months, against a profit of over 7 million euros last year. Apparently depreciation and the resultant write-off in stock value, plus a significant loss following a slide in snowboard sales, are mainly responsible, although there were some restructuring costs as well.

So much for French ski manufacture! It's gone the way of the British car building industry!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
PG wrote:
So much for French ski manufacture! It's gone the way of the British car building industry!


I'd not thought of it in those terms, I see the parallel now though Very Happy

Not selling enough outside the home/European market I suppose. I thought both Salomon and Rossi had hit on good commercial formulas though.
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PG, I wasn't generically knocking Salomon, honest. For ages I loved Xcreams which weren't a top selling sking for nothing (good graphics, aggressive marketing, etc.) No, to be fair, it was xtremely good fun to ski on in any conditions. (and lordy a life saver with a raging hangover).

Although, do you think that at junior level equipment makes a great deal of difference (all other variables [preparation, technique, fitness, etc.] being equal? Might your observation not reflect the availability of Salomons?

ise, fair enough, I do see what you mean...so:

In this age of gross mass marketing, what's a non-punter ski then?

Or how do you define it perhaps a better question.

* Limited availability e.g. PMGear Bro, or
* Difficulty to ski e.g. (apparently) the Stockli race skis?

No particular axe to grind although I prefer the latter - one could postulate a limited edition ski built much like a B2 - which wouldn't necessarily add much to the world. Scarcity in and of itself isn't a benefit when it comes to having fun on snow. wink
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ise, do you have the old B2s or the new ones.

I've got the old ones. They're a pretty common ski, but I've always thought that was because they're pretty good all round for anyone with a modicum of ability.

PG, the only salomons that I've tried are the Crossmax 10s last year, and I have to say that I quite liked them.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Kramer, old ones, and yes, they are a good all round ski for most skiers, the ultimate "punter" ski, and nearly the official ski of SnowHeads, on the last day of the EOSB I had 8 or 10 pairs in the roofbox coming down from VdI.

David Murdoch What I mean is limited application, race skis that are unusable other than on a hard piste, something so fat it takes a few hours to go edge to edge, a twin tip only any use in the park etc etc.

Although, thinking about it, availabilty must be there as well, if you're in the UK, go skiing 2 to 3 times a year, get charged 20 quid a go by the airline per pair of skis, then you want a single pair that will be OK on ice, slush, powder, groomed etc, and you need one you can actually go and buy.

In fact, "application" is a another way to look at difficulty to ski really, if you quailify it as difficulty in a range of conditions.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I agree with ise. From personal experience wink just 'cos the B2 offers some performance doesn't mean it isn't a punter ski. In fact it makes it an even better punter ski, appealing to even more punters, which after all is what most of us ultimately are (me certainly)! As he says,
Quote:

the official ski of SnowHeads

snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ise, an interesting take on things, yes I quite see what you mean. I was about to suggest that I mean application when I said difficulty but I didn't really and "broadness of application" seems a very good general measure for skis (and their valuation). And, yes, broad application could proxy for easy to ski in many conditions.

What's interesting is that IIRC S&R and the ilk generally don't narrow the application adequately. Example: the lowest score they give to the Atomic GS:11 is a 4 for all mountain versatility. Given that anyone good enough to be considering buying them is like to be able to ski the whole mountain based on ability not kit, it's a bit of a meaningless guide. But it's a demanding and focused ski. If you're not running GS gates it's possible that you'll find a better alternative?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
From the Urban Dictionary. Does this sum it up?

Quote:
1. punter
The guy who has all the gear and talks like he nails sh*t, but actually sucks. You may see the punters in the lodge talking about how sick their day was while sippin their latte's and waiting for their SUV's to warm up.
"That guy sure talked a lot of smack, but he turned out to be a punter."


Obviously a male thing Madeye-Smiley
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
RachelQ, exactly!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A friend of mine once did some work for William Hill,the bookmakers.
In their training manual at the time there was the instruction that staff should never refer to customers as Punters because one day they will get customer and punter confused and call him a Pustomer or the other way round....a c***ter Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
RachelQ wrote:
From the Urban Dictionary. Does this sum it up?

Quote:
1. punter
The guy who has all the gear and talks like he nails sh*t, but actually sucks. You may see the punters in the lodge talking about how sick their day was while sippin their latte's and waiting for their SUV's to warm up.
"That guy sure talked a lot of smack, but he turned out to be a punter."


Obviously a male thing Madeye-Smiley


That description isn't a million miles away from the truth about me, perhaps it's good that I use a punter ski. Very Happy
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Does anyone have remotely detailed ski theft data? Are 'punter' skis more likely to be stolen?
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