 Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst this seems to have wandered off piste, there are a few points that are worth making. It's all very well bleating in about children being "left" in creches and ski school and the like, and the guilt we should feel as parents about doing so, as if our motives are somehow dark and warped.
The inescapable facts are that most parents these days work, and children often go to creches/pre-school etc before going to school. Whether they are at a creche or school on holiday, or not, most children seem quite happy mixing with children of their own age/ability. I'm sure if you dragged your (younger) children off skiing every day, they'd soon get tired of the whole affair and soon turn off the idea quickly, thus making the holiday less of a holiday. Just because we see little of our children during a normal day, does it make it right to force them to be with us every waking moment when on holiday? Most children react strangely when faced with that sort of disruption to their routines.
From a personal point, our youngest (4) went to ski school every morning for 2 hours, made some great friends, can handle button lifts, skis greens and blues, even skis backwards and displayed none of the chracteristics of an unhappy or neglected child. She also went into a snow club in the afternoon and revelled in the fun going on. Sometimes we joined in and other times we didn't. All we've heard since getting back is "when are we going skiing again", and "I really miss so and so or such and such".
In another few years, we'll all start skiing together more often. The youngest will be more physically able to ski longer, and enjoy the experience more as a consequence of the time spent learning to ski and playing in the snow.
Obviously it is a question of balance, but there is no point in pointing the "bad parent" finger at parents that choose to select holiday companies that offer alternatives for children enjoy, whilst releasing parents to pursue something that they may enjoy.
Back on piste:
We've used Ski Espirit on 2 occassions and found them pretty good on the whole. Well organised, approachable and friendly. Entrusting the care of children to strangers goes against the grain to a degree, and we found that this was handled sympathetically and professionally. Would recommend them - they're currently offering some fairly well discounted childcare deals for next year. If you're happy to wait for the snow reports and then book, assuming you time it right, even better deals can be done - we managed half price back in March.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Hunter wrote
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our youngest (4) went to ski school every morning for 2 hours, made some great friends, can handle button lifts, skis greens and blues, even skis backwards and displayed none of the chracteristics of an unhappy or neglected child
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Of course your daughter didn't display any unhappiness. You were sensible enough to wait until she was old enough to enjoy skiing. By the age of four, kids start to enjoy the company of their peers and are really quite happy to leave their parents for a few hours. I bet she had a whale of a time. It's younger kids that I'm concerned about - is it really too much for parents to put skiing on hold for a few years?
But back to the subject. If Ken can bear to listen to anything else I say  , I'd suggest staying in Europe. Apart from Esprit (excellent), we've taken our kids to Breckenridge in Colorado and, although they were well behaved on the flight, the jet-lag really got to them.
Despite all you might read about European vs American tuition, all three kids claimed to prefer their French instructors to their American ones. Surprising, really, because at first sight Breckenridge seemed more geared up to kids. Breck's skiing dog Ripparoo (he serves hot chocolate to cold kids in a mountain hut) went down particularly well, though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
Mark Hunter wrote
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our youngest (4) went to ski school every morning for 2 hours, made some great friends, can handle button lifts, skis greens and blues, even skis backwards and displayed none of the chracteristics of an unhappy or neglected child
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Of course your daughter didn't display any unhappiness. You were sensible enough to wait until she was old enough to enjoy skiing. By the age of four, kids start to enjoy the company of their peers and are really quite happy to leave their parents for a few hours. I bet she had a whale of a time. It's younger kids that I'm concerned about - is it really too much for parents to put skiing on hold for a few years? |
For one week a year, is it really too much to put a 6 month to 2/3 year old in a suitable creche for a period of time? If one was to take a late season holiday where skiing is best finished by 2 o'clock and the climate is warmer, and you can all go out for the afternoon and enjoy the sunshine etc, where is the harm? Come on.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
Of course your daughter didn't display any unhappiness. You were sensible enough to wait until she was old enough to enjoy skiing.
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It's younger kids that I'm concerned about - is it really too much for parents to put skiing on hold for a few years?
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Of course us parents who haven't displayed such good sense have done what? When we picked up Beth from the creche at the end of the day she was happy and smiling. She probably got more attention and stimulus than she would in an average day at home. She got to experience something that was different from her usual day in England. This is bad for her in what way?
As Mark points out, many small children are in creches at home from a young age already. Jonny - presumably you believe that one parent should give up their job to concentrate on childcare full-time as well?
Your original post seemed to be more concerned with parents spending as much time as possible with their children. Fair enough. You now seem to be moving towards the idea that it is bad for the child in some way. That's quite a jump.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm not het up Chris. More amused or possible bemused 
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Ditto...
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This has been an excellent thread.
Jonny Jones lobbed in a super grenade that has allowed us to explore the many facets of just what being a parent involves. Getting the balance right is very difficult. We all on the whole try our best.
I am fascinated though by how Ken Lingwood's post containing the words "drivel" and "rubbish" condemning a previous post drew no comment, but calm responses by alan empty and Mark Hunter caused Chris Reed to think the thread was getting over-heated.
Posting is a delicate business.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jonpim, I agree an excellent thread indeed.
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OK. I admit it. I only half believe the things I've said. But I hate to think of Snowheads getting dull over the summer so I thought some strong opinions would liven things up a bit.
Anyone got any thoughts on Iraq? (He frantically ducks for cover  )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You sure you're not Mr mclean?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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B@stard! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Ah Ken Lingwood, I sympathise. I hope Grace is OK now. Have you told us how old Grace is?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Two weeks old. Although, two weeks ago I was 38 I'm now 68 
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Poster: A snowHead
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At that rate I'm now somewhere around 12,000 years old. Feels about right. But if the effect's cumulative (per additional child), or rather increases geometrically, that might be nearer the mark... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ken Lingwood, You will get some sleep eventually but the ageing process is, in my experience, irreversible. Also strains on backs, knees and bodies generally from lifting a wriggling dead weight only get worse with time. On the plus side I found it a great way to loose a lot of weight very fast that's taken me nearly two years to put back on 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Congratulations Ken on your new baby, I was 35 when I had my son and found it very tiring but the most rewarding experience of my life! Unfortunately I didnt plan him very well and had him smack in the middle of ski season (Feb 21st) so didnt ski that year, or the following purely down to finance (I took 6 months off work and spent all our spare cash on baby stuff!). When he was 2 we went to Austria (Kaprun), but left sprog at home with my parents (who dont get to see him very often as they live along way from us) as hubby and I needed some quality time together..... we then took him on his first ski holiday this March, he had just turned 4. Believe me, thats the perfect age to start them on skis. He loved it! He was using the drag on his own, skiing blues quite adequately and managed to ski all day on 3 or 4 occasions. Far better than having to spend all that money taking him skiing and him hating it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This little tot at Peisey (Les Arcs) a week ago is just two. His mum reckons he's safer on skis than walking....
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FAQ
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