 Poster: A snowHead
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David Goldsmith, of course the club could always self-insure but then another bad accident and another legal case would finish it. I'm guessing but the club probably has somewhere in the region of 10 million quids worth of liability insurance in place and it'll be at that level because that's the potential size of a settlement. Insurance co carries the risk... calls the shots.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hurtle wrote: |
David Goldsmith, are you saying that the Club's ability to get liability insurance doesn't affect this issue?  |
Far from it. I'm saying we should define the off-piste as the ocean and behave like the RYA - leave people to explore it at their own risk and freedom, and stop saying "You really ought to sail the ocean with one of our reps". Or people should ski it with a professional guide.
I think the RYA has a very different mindset to the SCGB because it is the governing body of sailing instructors. As mentioned a few pages ago we flunked the opportunity to fulfil that fascinating [skiing] role back in the early 1960s.
You are suggesting that we don't already face a liability. The Treasurer has informed us that we are £32,000 out of pocket concerning this tragedy. And please read note 14 on page 14 of the annual report which states:
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| Legal action is being brought against the Company in respect of an accident in a resort. The directors are presently unable to determine the outcome of this litigation and no provision has been made in these Financial Statements for any costs of defending this action, as the amount cannot be determined with sufficient accuracy. |
What should we deduce from that statement - that the insurers are not picking up our liability for legal costs?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 28-11-07 17:19; edited 4 times in total
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Hurtle, it is true that certain anonymous SCGB lieutenants come out of the woodwork whenever the club is criticised on this forum... and they hunt in pairs or more. It is mysterious and they disappear as soon as the thread dies down. I've had a few horses' heads in my bed before now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, Yes, as in flood gates for the defense of the virtuous SCGB
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David Goldsmith, I suspect the £32k is either the excess on the policy or the costs associated with assisting the rep who, we're told, may have been arrested and charged. He/she will have needed legal representation. If there's a big settlement you'd hope it is covered but worth asking the question.
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Latchigo, My apologies for taking the thread off line, but I used the opportunity of an active thread re: the SCGB to point out the poor perception they hold in many potential members eyes. An example being their ski guiding/hosting/repping resulting in accidents or worse. So not a major thread detour, more an elaboration on the theme.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| If there's a big settlement you'd hope it is covered but worth asking the question. |
Worth £51? You've an opportunity to ask the question yourself.
No, I think that would be an unwelcome question because we probably can't control the outcome of this anyway.
I'm more interested in the stuff the Club can control.
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David Goldsmith, I thought you had long gone to leave us all in peace........................... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, no thanks, my tweeds are in the wash (that old perception thing, eh?)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith,
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I'm saying we should define the off-piste as the ocean and behave like the RYA - leave people to explore it at their own risk and freedom, and stop saying "You really ought to sail the ocean with one of our reps". Or people should ski it with a professional guide.
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Oh, I see. A valid viewpoint, to which I am sympathetic.
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You are suggesting that we don't already face a liability
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No I'm not suggesting that at all.
Guvnor,
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defense of the virtuous SCGB
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Can't actually see that in the last page or two, and I am certainly not springing to anyone's defence. I accept that, in the past - see Bode Swiller's nasty horse-head experiences - that has happened. Like Latchigo, all I have seen since you posted your less-than-illuminating remarks, is the odd mosey up a side alley. (Oh god, agreeing with him again, this is becoming a habit.)
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Guvnor, No need to apologise.
I think this thread has been used as an opportunity for all and sundry to say whatever is on their mind about the SCGB, including those who do not have access to the Club forum, for whatever reason.
That does not bother me.
It is only when it is pointless (but strangely familiar) in-fighting that it becomes tiresome.
If you are saying that some members see any criticism (constructive or otherwise) as a threat you are correct
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You know it makes sense.
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Latchigo, Can you please stopping making posts that I agree with, it's becoming strangely unsettling. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Guvnor, you... aaahhhrrtttside... now.... 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, I did read your Guardian post if you are looking for a bit of disagreement -but I thought I had already done enough damage in that thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Latchigo, 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Latchigo, criticism good - and I love to see Bode's viewpoint. Repetitive carping on and saying the same thing they have said every 6 months for the last few years (here and elsewhere) is a slightly different matter, especially if you feel the carper never listens to others.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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stoatsbrother, I thought you were onto something with Bode's identity a while back. But having incorrectly assumed he was the same person as the Ski & Board editor, I was glad somebody else was asking the questions this time. But, yes - if he is not a sock puppet  - he is making some good posts.
As for the the 'carping', it is only when there is a small band involved and responding that it is just so pointless and predictable. Then you get the 'play the man, not the ball' tactics creeping in as well.
Am I the only poster who remembers a report in one of the colour supplements about the club and snowboarders a few years ago ? Some genuine fogies were kicking up a stink about snowboarders and threatening to go off in a huff if they were not banned. Caroline Stuart Taylor came out of it really well, but the pompous ski club image would have been revisited.
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Geez, I don't know what to say  . I like to thank my wife, my agent... and SCGB for stuffing it up occasionally.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Guvnor wrote: |
| An example being their ski guiding/hosting/repping resulting in accidents or worse. |
So we know of one fatality in Vebier last year, and there was something a while back that we're not allowed to talk about (a condition of the legal settlement). So that's two then.
So we should only ski with guides? OK, so the last day I was skiing in Gressoney last year, the day after we went over to Zermatt, a snowboarder under the supervision of a guide fell down a crevasse and died. The previous year the day we got to La Grave we were discussing the fatality that day in Montgenevre, in which the guide was also seriously injured. These are just two fatailities close by where I was skiing, and there have been many more (I could find plenty more on Pistehors if necessary).
So from that experience, we're better off skiing with reps than guides. Of course that's not a serious point - but yours is equally fatuous. The fact is that any variety of skiing, off-piste or on-piste (and I personally have had more injuries on piste than off) is risky, and as skiers we take reasonable steps to minimise that risk. But the only way to avoid it is to not ski, and sit at home....and die from clogged arteries.
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GrahamN, In fairness, twenty pages on the subject.
A non-member does not necessarily know how many fatalities there are with SCGB reps. It may seem to be a major problem because there is so much discussion about it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just to clarify: the first two fatalities involved SCGB repped groups in off-piste areas. Both occurred many years before this one: March 1989 (avalanche, Verbier) and the second on an unspecified date about 1989 (edit: details deleted).
So there was an (approximate) 18-year period of no deaths until the recent accident in Verbier.
Essentially, I agree with GrahamN's spirit of skiing. I just don't want my Club to be accused of being responsible in these incidents, rightly or unjustifiably. I'm quite happy for groups to be led on piste only, or for groups to hire guides independently of the Club, with no contractual link with the Club.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 28-11-07 18:53; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
Sorry for going off-topic  |
are you qualified for taking us off-topic?
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You know it makes sense.
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What a brilliant thread. A credit to all involved.......and I am sorry for posting in it, as it will no doubt now go completely titsup.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've just read your new signature line, Frosty.
You won't be wanting a banana, then?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
as it will no doubt now go completely titsup
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Frosty the Snowman, over an hour 20 since you said that and nothing interesting has happened (I don't think the banana stuff really counts). You must be that kiss of death I've been hearing about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for that - given me an idea for the wife's Christmas present 
Latchigo I used to think BS was Arnold Lunn returned. Now I know he is not, but he certainly isn't Arnie. x7 interests me more... I think I know who Tim Brown is - and have wondered if Whitegold and he share an ip address.
funny thing this internet...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
Latchigo I used to think BS was Arnold Lunn returned. Now I know he is not, but he certainly isn't Arnie. x7 interests me more... I think I know who Tim Brown is - and have wondered if Whitegold and he share an ip address.
funny thing this internet... |
Arnie actually came on and said he was not Bode Swiller some time ago.
I do not remember a poster called Arnold Lunn and have not seen much of x7. Have not heard from Tim Brown in a while either, though he did say he has another alias on here.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I used to think BS was Arnold Lunn returned
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I wish people wouldn't refer to me as BS... most unflattering. Happy to confirm I'm not Arnold Lunn. In fact I don't recall seeing anyone by that name on here. Whitegold fascinates me too. Most days even I don't know who I am.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Who is Bode Swiller?
You can play an interesting game by puting someone's name into Google Images.
Bode Swiller gets this!
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Jonpim, darn, that's me alright. I bet people are madly Googling for all the other names on here now. That guarantees at least another 46 pages.
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Guvnor, - don't know where your pre-conceptions about the Ski Club come from - the picture you paint of our membership doesn't apply to anyone I've met over 15 years or so - it seems to me that it's only people like you who keep these odd ideas going. (French cider's rather nice though - what class does that put me into?)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman, are you suggesting that BS and BS are one and the same?
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FAQ
