 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="Bode Swiller"]
| PJSki wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after. |
Why the membership drives at all the ski shows, attending all the on-snow events around the alps, reps targetted to sign people up, magazine promos, lamb-guzzling sign-written Saabs etc etc ad infinitum. Face it, the club spends a lot of your membership running around trying to sign people up who aren't exactly flocking to fill in the forms. You are now making me laugh. |
It's common practice for clubs such as the ski club to promote themselves. You're hilarious. |
Why promote if you don't want to get bigger FFS? The fact is that all that promo activity doesn't actually work for them. That means the product is wrong. How would you know what hilarious is? |
I suppose the club wants to get bigger, as well as replace members who, for whatever reason, decide to leave. The product seem right for many people. I think you need to calm down. You're hilariously angry, I can tell. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="Bode Swiller"]
| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after. |
Why the membership drives at all the ski shows, attending all the on-snow events around the alps, reps targetted to sign people up, magazine promos, lamb-guzzling sign-written Saabs etc etc ad infinitum. Face it, the club spends a lot of your membership running around trying to sign people up who aren't exactly flocking to fill in the forms. You are now making me laugh. |
My, we are getting excited, seetheart. We must remain calm.
1. The club has to maintain or gently increase its membership - or it would be in trouble. It's been doing so year on year. No cause for concern there, then.
2. Do they really attend all the on-snow events in the Alps? I had no idea. Must be a nice perk. I gather the salaries aren't that hot, so I guess it's a perk - and anyway the staff should get out in the mountains. I guess they do some recruiting there. Why not? There. Your heart rate's dropping already.
3. Dunno about magazine promos, don't look at that sort of thing - look, if it steadies you, I'll take your word for it - you must remain calm.
4. Now, then, you know you're a very naughty boy referring to the Saab as lamb-guzzling. But see, I am remaining calm, too!
5. Ad infinitum? To infinity? Sounds a bit Buzz Lightyear to me. Did Mum get you one for Christmas all those years ago? No, I don't mind you playing with it. It stops you playing with other things I'd rather you didn't. And it keeps you calm.
6. I am glad I am making you laugh. If your happy, I'm happy. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, I think nursey might have put the young man down for the night. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PJSki, no point chumming up with achilles, at least he posts on many other subjects, has a sense of humour and enjoys friendly argument and banter. You're different... apart from one post about an MP3 player, ALL of your other posts have been on this thread and you seem to have no other purpose than to defend your club whatever well-constructed arguments crop up. Getting childishly personal isn't that difficult, even really thick people can manage it. The subject matter is fair game and is clearly of big interest hence the page count. And it was, if you remember, all started by (edit: someone claiming to be not good enough to be...) a Ski Club Rep.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 27-11-07 21:50; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, I do not think Alistair is a rep, unless his surname is different to the one in his username. It is not on the current rep list.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, I do not think Alistair is a rep, unless his surname is different to the one in his username. It is not on the current rep list. |
I am a SCGB member, but certainly not good enough to be a SCGB rep! 
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AxsMan, - don't miss out! - you can have a great day's skiing with a Rep. - I've never had a bad day and it's good to ski with people who want to SKI (my friends often wanted to just pootle about)
- AndI don't recognise the "drinking scenario" presumed above - in my experience those of us who need loo stops have had to suggest hot choccie morning breaks - whch extend the morning skiing to a late lunch with, typically zero or one beer /glass of wine and then perhaps a gluwein on the last run down - fairly typical of most leisure skiers I would have thought ? - But perhaps some reps. / groups / days differ - just give it a go and make your mind up afterwards!
BTW - in my experience most of the Rep skiing has been "on or near the piste" - and with a guide for a serious off piste day ( and off piste holidays) - so hopefully all the hoo-haa has been caused simply by an exceptionally bad communications exercise by the Club - it's main weakness IMHO
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 27-11-07 21:52; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alastair Pink, apologies. The first time I've ever ever ever been wrong and it has to happen in public. D'oh. Ammended.
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Bode Swiller,
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Alastair Pink, apologies. The first time I've ever ever ever been wrong |
I thought you were a man - the first time i've ever been wrong too
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, all I've done is give alternative opinions to yours. All you've done is get upset about it. For a non-member you seem pretty clued up on the club.
But this rather gives the game away:
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| "The fact is that all that promo activity doesn't actually work for them. That means the product is wrong." |
Labeling your own opinion as a 'fact', doesn't make it one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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PJSki, "The fact is..." is a normal, everyday turn of phrase and you've gone and analysed it . It means, in this case, that I'm certain in my mind that what I'm saying stands up. That's all. Now, all I've been doing is giving an alternative opinion to yours. So what? This is an Internet forum. You really don't need High Court levels of proof here. Relax.
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| richjp wrote: |
I was one of the members on the ski club board that stood up to DG's misrepresentations ... |
I have not been commissioned by every one of six successive editors of the Ski Club of Great Britain since 1978 - including ten years as the magazine's equipment or associate editor - for misrepresenting stuff.
Try and keep your comments within the bounds of reason, and try and keep it reasonable.
Cheers
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You know it makes sense.
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Come on Guys one more page and we have 20 pages on a club that was archived on here some time ago
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| richjp wrote: |
I was one of the members on the ski club board that stood up to DG's misrepresentations ... |
I have not been commissioned by every one of six successive editors of the Ski Club of Great Britain since 1978 - including ten years as the magazine's equipment or associate editor - for misrepresenting stuff.
Try and keep your comments within the bounds of reason, and try and keep it reasonable.
Cheers |
I think that's a very controlled response - going by his own standards he's stating a fact (in bold red!) and should back it up. What is a fact (in bold red) is that it is highly unprofessional and ignorant to go onto a public forum with such a statement if indeed he was on the board of the Ski Club... is he "representing" the board?
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Poster: A snowHead
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boredsurfin, I reckon it'll run to several hundred pages once the detail of what actually happened in Verbier comes out into the public domain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is this thread going to end up in yet another discussion of Youngs Modulus and how it applies to DG's interpretation of facts. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PJSki,
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Discounts are not a good way of building a mutual club. All they do is attracted the wrong sort of 'member'. I'm loathed to even call them members.
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With remarks like that, I'm not altogether surprised you're loathed. Be that as it may, what exactly do you mean? I use and value the discounts, am I the 'wrong sort of member'? If so, in what way?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hurtle, hey, join my new club. All we've got is discounts. Women join for free too. That's great, only another 199,998 to go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's an example of what richjp would call a "misrepresentation", but anyone else would call a set of SCGB official data, reproduced accurately. This data applies to the winter of 1992-3, compared to the winter of 2006-7:
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Reproduced from 1993 ...... 2007 SCGB Annual Reports
Cost of Skiing/Resort Operations ...... £71,637 ...... £227,055
Number of rep skiing days ...... approx 2898 ...... over 3500
Number of resorts hosting reps ...... 33 ...... 42
Number of people who skied with reps ...... approx 7000 ...... 6355
Number of new members recruited by reps ...... 989 ...... 488
----------------------------------------------------------
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, Ta. What club? (Sorry, I dozed off in the middle of reading this thread, some of the quotes were so long I got lost.)
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Hurtle, well, it's a long story (you only need to read back over a few pages). There is no club, I just put forward a suggestion as to how an inclusive national ski club might look... and it would need to be a very different business model to SKGB because they appear to be non-inclusive (if board member, PJSki's "wrong type of member" remarks are representative of the club), they have failed to get many members and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... I can't go on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, you collect annual reports going back to 1992? I am in awe. That must rank second only to Arnold Rimmer's collection of C20th telegraph pole pictures 
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achilles, If I join do I qualify for any discounts? Will you be repping me safely round Lincoln? Do you pretend to have a green agenda? Is there a mag full of advertorial? All these things are VERY important to me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, hey - at our prices who wants discounts. We are keeping an incredibly old building going instead of building a new one so I guess that's green (OK with a listed building we'd have fat chance of doing anything else). But I am not sure about the safe repping thing - the square outside is cobbled. I think the council (city one not the SCGB's) think it's safe, but you might think you would trip if you're in heels. Don't do a magazine. Nope. I can see I have lost you and Hurtle already. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| achilles wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, you collect annual reports going back to 1992? |
No, my collection of SCGB annual reports goes back to 1987.
[richjp will tell you if that's a misrepresentation.]
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Here's an example of what richjp would call a "misrepresentation", but anyone else would call a set of SCGB official data, reproduced accurately. This data applies to the winter of 1992-3, compared to the winter of 2006-7:
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Reproduced from 1993 ...... 2007 SCGB Annual Reports
Cost of Skiing/Resort Operations ...... £71,637 ...... £227,055
Number of rep skiing days ...... approx 2898 ...... over 3500
Number of resorts hosting reps ...... 33 ...... 42
Number of people who skied with reps ...... approx 7000 ...... 6355
Number of new members recruited by reps ...... 989 ...... 488
---------------------------------------------------------- |
Wasn't 92 - 93 an almost snowless winter? There were three really bad ones on the trot around that time (pre snowmaking). a 14 year span is a tad difficult to compare IMV. What's obvious is that the Reps back then signed up way more punters.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Wasn't 92 - 93 an almost snowless winter? |
No, it was OK.
This is what the then SCGB Chairman said: "In December I spent a week with our aspiring reps in Tignes. The snow conditions were excellent" ... "Despite poor snow conditions in early January the Club enjoyed a very successful season, selling nearly 1000 holidays an increase of 14% on 1992."
So I'd imagine it was an average-to-good winter for snow.
The really catastrophic winters were in the late 80s and 1990, if my memory's correct.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Goldsmith, I hope you're not misrepresenting all that. Happy to be put right.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles,
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you can't join my club, but you'd be very welcome as a guest.
Just stay out of the gents' toilets and the snooker room
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Thank you, how kind. Certainly, I will abide by all rules. (I must admit that my information on the Garrick's Gents' was only hearsay! The Ladies' is really beautiful, with the most fantastic furniture and pictures. ) I can't play snooker anyway. And I don't need discounts, reps, a green agenda, or advertorial. I am also happy with your implied disclaimer. When can I come?
Bode Swiller, OK, I get the picture (vaguely). Let me know when it's up and running.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith,
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The first Chief Exec to be appointed - Inga Grimsey (who came from the retail sector) - ran the Club while Caroline S-T was operating Fresh Tracks.
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As you have the reports going back to 1987 perhaps you might like to enlighten us as to what role Emma Rose played?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| A 14 year span is a tad difficult to compare IMV. |
God, you're so hard to please.
My statisticians have extracted the following overnight:
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Reproduced from 2007 SCGB Annual Report
2005 ...... 2006 ...... 2007
Cost of Skiing/Resort Operations ...... £184,857 ...... £219,125 ...... £227,055
Number of rep skiing days ...... n/a ...... n/a ...... over 3500
Number of resorts hosting reps ...... n/a ...... 43 ...... 42
Number of people who skied with reps ...... 5528 ......5745 ...... 6355
Number of new members recruited by reps ...... 699 ...... 648 ...... 488
----------------------------------------------------------
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SCGB - you are a bunch of incredible snobs. Go and polish your old school ties elsewhere....
There, I said it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Guvnor,
No I'm not.
Haven't got one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, But this is the impression that your 'club' gives out......and I am guessing that as an organisation you are trying to attract new members? You might want to take a look at the perception you impress upon non-members in order to swell your numbers, as opposed to swelling your ego's with the back-slapping, pink gin swilling in-fighting you portray at present.
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Guvnor,
I don't treat it as a club, but then, unlike achilles, I'm not at all clubbable (and we'll have to agree to differ on the spelling of that word! )
In fact, as noted above, I appear to be what PJSki has termed the wrong sort of member - although I note that he has failed to answer two enquiries as to what that might mean.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that not all Ski Club members are snobbish, old school tie wearing, back-slapping, pink gin swilling, in-fighting people, though I agree that it looks as though some may be. Any more stereotypes you'd care to trot out?
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Chaps - this is boring - this has all been done to death.
Bode Swiller, to put things in context it should perhaps be stressed that the 1993 data was collected on a totally different basis to the recent data - and it is the selective use of data comparisons by DG without flagging this which many of us took issue with over on the Ski Club Forum. In addition, the data we have just shows the mode of signing up, rather than the reason for joining, and for all we know large numbers sign up via the internet because of their experience with a rep - and this was not available in 1993. So whilst recent comparisons are more valid and interesting, the 1993 one is not. This - and some other interesting use of numbers - led to some dissatisfaction amongst the statistically numerate amongst us, and tedious arguments over there which DG did not appear to understand.
Guvnor, sounds a bit like prejudice on your part mate, what you see here is a club trying to understand what its future direction is, and then the usual agenda I am afraid from DG who seems to have slight difficulty accepting any club/forum which is not designed exactly the way he wants it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, I'm not aware that any official correction has been made to the 1993 SCGB data extracted above, or to my use of it. I have reproduced that data absolutely straight. You've no reason to insult either my numeracy (I've a vintage A level in statistics, buddy) or my integrity.
Here's a question for you: Do the frequent communications you make to this or other internet forums make use of publicly-funded resources?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 28-11-07 13:26; edited 1 time in total
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FAQ
's, yes 