 Poster: A snowHead
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| Csb123 wrote: |
| Crikey, so not put to bed at all! He wants to hope this gets sorted before uk leaves the Eu or he'll not be covered by their protection from France's diabolical legal system presumably? |
or that it gets sorted before he dies of old age !
So Chambery has confirmed their sentence after hoping SBS would also be found guilty by the Lyon TA. The legal basis on which they found him guilty is currently erm... illegal, pending an appeal by the French government.
French courts eh?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm BACK...........................
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A victory for all EU qualified ski instructors!!!
For BASI life is a bit trickier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Very tricky for BASI indeed, just waiting for the compensation claim to go through and after 10 years this can all finally be put to bed, the worst part is after all this i haven't put a pair of ski's on in over 5 years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Right from the very beginning Simon and his friends have (to me) obviously been in the right.
They have now gone through multiple layers of the legal system and each time they end up winning.
I just hope that the foolishly stubborn opposition will finally understand the legal truth and behave properly.
Well done Simon Butler, there are a lot of ski professionals who will have cause to think you in years to come, and even more ski school users.
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This article is from 2019 so not exactly news.
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Well spotted, @snowrider.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, old news but ... anyone know how Simon B ended up settling with BASI and the French? He would have been 'rewarded' for winning then agreeing to keep his head down - Is he still running a ski school? What are the wider implications for other non-French lower qualified ski instructors in France?
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| Yes, old news but ... anyone know how Simon B ended up settling with BASI and the French? He would have been 'rewarded' for winning then agreeing to keep his head down - Is he still running a ski school? What are the wider implications for other non-French lower qualified ski instructors in France? |
Alex Casey (@BlubaBluba) would be able to tell you. Seems like compo is still being decided from what he says above. He's no longer instructing or skiing but working in the UK.
SB and others confirmed the EU law on qualifications and the French are apparently still being obstructive.
Prefets were sent a note by the sports ministry reminding them that under EU law they had to issue a Professional Card for anyone with the highest qualification or 1 below in their home system. I'll see if I can did out the note. That is for EU/EEA qualified people (it is where you are qualified, rather than you nationality that is important). You are supposed to also have 2 seasons work experience as well. As the note, noted this causes an issue for the French as they tend to only have 1 level across all sports so legally have to issue Professional Cards to people they may consider way below their standards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks, interesting. Does this (potentially) offer a solution to SCGB and their 'volunteer leading'? Presumably there is a an EU/EEA qualification somewhere for mountain leading at one level below the French home system? Then the issue as to whether volunteer leaders were in fact 'professional' by French rules become irrelevant.
If so this presumably also stretches to wider volunteer leading implications. I do this myself in France (including on Bashes) - entirely unofficially and entirely voluntary - as do many other in informal and semi formal groups. The Val D'Isere Ski Club "chapter" does this, although they do emphasise no one is 'leading'. It would be nice not need to worry (as much) we might be prosecuted or face additional pressures if their was an incident. My pet worry is an accident then someone after the event deciding I was doing something illegal.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@BlubaBluba, Curious as to who you are seeking compensation from , is it the French government ? or BASI ? or ??
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| BlubaBluba wrote: |
| Very tricky for BASI indeed, just waiting for the compensation claim to go through and after 10 years this can all finally be put to bed, the worst part is after all this i haven't put a pair of ski's on in over 5 years. |
Indeed -that is tragic. All this nonsense takes its toll - you planning to ski again?
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You know it makes sense.
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| pisteoff wrote: |
Thanks, interesting. Does this (potentially) offer a solution to SCGB and their 'volunteer leading'? Presumably there is a an EU/EEA qualification somewhere for mountain leading at one level below the French home system? Then the issue as to whether volunteer leaders were in fact 'professional' by French rules become irrelevant.
If so this presumably also stretches to wider volunteer leading implications. I do this myself in France (including on Bashes) - entirely unofficially and entirely voluntary - as do many other in informal and semi formal groups. The Val D'Isere Ski Club "chapter" does this, although they do emphasise no one is 'leading'. It would be nice not need to worry (as much) we might be prosecuted or face additional pressures if their was an incident. My pet worry is an accident then someone after the event deciding I was doing something illegal. |
I don't believe the French authorities have ever had problems with someone in a group leading the others round the slopes on a purely voluntary basis, where they get involved is if there's any form of remuneration involved, which is why the SCGB fell foul with their reps/leaders (or whatever their currently accepted official name now is  ) receiving expenses. That's not to say that I don't think the French authorities behaved appallingly to Simon Butler and many others (with the acquiescence of BASI who had cut a deal with the French).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi All,
It's true, we're seeking compensation but from who i can't say at this time due to legal reasons, there is also a private prosecution that will shake things up. As for the skiing part, it's true that all this over the last 10 years has really affected myself, when i returned to the UK my career was in tatters, i nearly lost my home, lost a relationship because of it, my family were embarrassed by all the media coverage, so for the foreseeable future skiing is not on my agender.
Luckily i have all the amazing memories from my time in France, thankfully the good and great memories out way the the horrific ending we all had, one day all of the details will come out, as part of the process in dealing with it all i wrote a book (They say everyone has at least one book in them) well this will be mine, it's not just about the ending but about my whole experience in the ski industry, the amazing people i have met/skied with, lots of great stuff that will make you howl with laughter.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BlubaBluba wrote: |
Hi All,
It's true, we're seeking compensation but from who i can't say at this time due to legal reasons, there is also a private prosecution that will shake things up. As for the skiing part, it's true that all this over the last 10 years has really affected myself, when i returned to the UK my career was in tatters, i nearly lost my home, lost a relationship because of it, my family were embarrassed by all the media coverage, so for the foreseeable future skiing is not on my agender.
Luckily i have all the amazing memories from my time in France, thankfully the good and great memories out way the the horrific ending we all had, one day all of the details will come out, as part of the process in dealing with it all i wrote a book (They say everyone has at least one book in them) well this will be mine, it's not just about the ending but about my whole experience in the ski industry, the amazing people i have met/skied with, lots of great stuff that will make you howl with laughter. |
Great to read you're out the other end with a smile on your face
Can't wait to read the book
Onwards and upwards
And hopefully some downwards for you in the not too distant future
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here we go, Irish qualifs vs France, decision from December 2022
https://www.dalloz.fr/documentation/Document?id=TA_GRENOBLE_2022-12-26_2000362#texte-integral
so the Grenoble court decided that a Level 4 Alpine is not sufficient to teach in France. The plaintif made some administrative errors, such as not providing a translation into French of the ISIA training but it all seems like obstruction. However the court laid the obligation on the plaintif to prove why his qualification was sufficent to teach in France. Conclusion, don't hold your breath to teach in France without the eurotest.
| Quote: |
Mr A holds a "Level 4 Alpine diploma" (ISIA CARD) alpine ski instructor diploma issued by the Irish association of snowsport instructors (IASI) in 2014. However, if he claims rightly so that the commission's delegated regulation 2019/07 of March 14, 2019 refers in appendix I to this association as an entity issuing the qualification titles, this circumstance alone is not sufficient to establish that the training he followed in 2014, leading to the qualification of ski instructor, is regulated in Ireland. Consequently, and in the absence of any evidence as to the regulated nature of the training followed in Ireland, it has not been established that the situation of Mr A meets the requirements of the provisions cited in point 3 of Article R 212-90 3° of the Sports Code and thus, he cannot be deemed to satisfy the required qualification obligation. Moreover, to establish that he satisfies this obligation, he cannot confine himself to referring to multiple court decisions without relating them to his individual situation. Finally, he neither demonstrates nor alleges that the knowledge he acquired during his professional experience is such as to cover the substantial difference which exists between his professional qualifications and the professional qualifications required on French territory. Therefore, Mr. A has not established that he has the qualifications required to teach skiing in France.
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in the meantime a friend has just got his L2 equivalence for Germany and is good to teach, no problems afaiks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Teacher wrote: |
Don't be surprised if you see a few of Simon's team driving around in Aston Martins very soon, especially Mark Gibbs & Alex Casey who were locked up in French cells for doing nothing more than their job, Teaching Skiing.
These guys are going to get huge payouts after all this is settled. |
You're damn right, a 7 figure payout the way things are going.
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