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Poster: A snowHead
Fri 13-03-20 14:18
Replies: 80
Oops, forgot to mention here last week that the location sharing functionality is now live for anyone with a trip at the end of the season. See your friends on the map. (Manually update the app from the [url=https://ski-nav-app.com/index.html]store if this doesn't happen automatically for you.) You can also search for lifts and pistes by name. These have been added as part of the "Pro" in-app purchase.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mon 10-02-20 19:01
Replies: 80
I'm looking for testers [url=https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=151513]in another thread. Just want to mention it here in case it helps find any of you who have previously posted.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name.
Mon 10-02-20 18:56
Replies: 2
I location sharing. Is anybody here skiing in the next week and willing to help test? How it works: * Enter your phone number and enter a verification code sent via SMS. * Choose from your list of contacts who to share your location with and for how long. * Optionally turn background location sharing on to send location updates when your phone is locked in your pocket skiing. If you're interested, please send an email to ski.nav.app@gmail.com telling me either your Apple or Google ID (email address). If all you do is check it works and you can see your friends, great! Ideally you would also comment on how often you get location updates, any effect on battery life, and any problems with the purchase process.
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Thu 6-02-20 19:55
Replies: 80
@ster Good point, I should put a setting for it. @diaphon Appreciate the feedback. A search box is high up on the list of features. @patrick! Yes, the source is OpenStreetMap. I don't currently know how to best suggest contributing new pistes/lifts. I fix mistakes in existing features by going to https://www.openstreetmap.org and clicking Edit (needs an account).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mon 3-02-20 14:40
Replies: 80
@ster This should be improved in the app. Currently, Ski Nav wants to check if the downloaded map is the latest version every 24 hours. So it doesn't actually redownload the map and the data usage is very low but yes it is a problem if you have no reception at all on the slopes. Best thing to do currently would be open the app in the morning or in a restaurant and it should be happy for the next day. But yes this should be better. The route you can see in Crans is listed as "freeride" in OpenStreetMap. I am hiding these so as to avoid encouraging people down dangerous pistes. In some other resorts, the "freeride" pistes are not on the official map so I'm just erring on the side of caution. This could be updated on a resort by resort basis in future.
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Thu 9-01-20 16:05
Replies: 80
@Riccardo unfortunately not. I don't think it's likely I would ever get this information. Currently, the travel times for each lift is taken from the raw OSM data if anyone has added it (some big resorts have this for more than 50% of lifts). Otherwise the travel time is estimated based on the length and type of the lift (and number of seats or detachable/nondetachable status if that is known) including a fixed time to navigate the queue/gates assuming it's not very busy. If I add the ability to mark a lift as closed in lieu of having the live open/closed status, I could also add the option to mark it as busy. If you like that idea, tell me, because I hadn't thought of it before. (Obviously it's a bit of a pain to have to do this manually.)
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Thu 9-01-20 15:33
Replies: 80
"The covortex" sounds about right. Took me a long time to work out which way was north and compare to other maps to just find Armentarola before checking the routing to it. This just highlights the need for a search bar as previously requested.
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thu 9-01-20 15:25
Replies: 80
@Whitters The great people who contribute to OpenStreetMap do a good job of updating it quickly as far as I've seen. It's dependent on the people/resort of course. The lifts you mention have already been added/removed and it's just me who needs to re-run the map-generation process on Ski Nav. I can do this in batch for all maps (or a list of specific maps) but I haven't set it up to run automatically on a schedule. I have just run the updates for the PdS maps so they should be there in a day or two (won't immediately update due to some caching). Running it on my machine I see the new lifts TSD Mosettes and TSD Cases and the old one gone (Brochaux - Mosettes was it?). (Incidentally PdS is still missing some pistes that have been mapped in a slightly different way in OSM and I haven't gotten around to adding them yet.)
Then you'll get to see more forums.
Tue 7-01-20 15:01
Replies: 80
@skipig thanks for pointing this one out. I've seen a few similar examples and will fix it soon. What is happening is that there is a cafe/restaurant in the middle of the village that is "close enough" for Ski Nav to consider that you can go straight from the bottom of the Borest lift to the cafe, and then from the cafe to the Col Alto lift. These short "hop" connections (not displayed) are essential to join stuff together that are not explicitly joined, but it's too aggresive here. I will make sure it doesn't use the artificial hop via cafes. Sorry I didn't/won't fix in time for your trip. Very glad to hear any more real-world feedback from your time there. The Alta Badia and Val Gardena maps are huge and seemed a bit tricky to me to get them looking okay. @Wylie66, @diaphon glad to hear it :)
And post your own questions...
Tue 26-11-19 15:30
Replies: 80
@Yves, ah, glad to hear from you. For now, I have a list of resorts with lat/lon coordinates and I have limited the list to those resorts of a certain size. The viewing angle and area of the resort is automatically calculated but can be overriden. I manually added extra views for 3 Valleys, PdS, Paradiski, based on the official maps, for example. Some kind of crowd sourcing is a good idea. It's a "long tail" in that there are lots of smaller resorts, though I suspect routing/navigation isn't really relevant below a certain size. Thanks, this DEM would be fantastic. I am not sure I fully understand how to use opensnowmap. I read it uses the pyrouter(?) routing engine and someone was suggesting adding in OSRM a while ago but I don't see how to do routing. What do you feel the main use of opensnowmap is? I know there is the mobile-specific view. Do you feel many people use this "live" on the mountain?
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Fri 15-11-19 0:17
Replies: 80
Ah, not sure, the iOS link is broken on their website (www.skadi.guide) but the Google one works, at least for me.
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Thu 14-11-19 23:53
Replies: 80
@admin noted. @diaphon you may want to check out Skadi if you haven't already, which has voice navigation and some good looking maps traced from the official ones. It's £1 per day for the basic routing. Ha, yes, lots of ideas but always glad to hear them.
You know it makes sense.
Thu 14-11-19 1:23
Replies: 80
@telford_mike Grindelwald/Wengen should be there with the next update (within a week or so). It is interesting to note the official map is very distorted on this one in order to show both the First side and the Schilthorn side with the Jungfrau behind. The smaller maps and Meiringen-Hasliberg will be out sometime later.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thu 14-11-19 0:54
Replies: 80
@sheffskibod @tatmanstours yes good point. This data exists in OSM for most pistes, so I will bring it into Ski Nav. Do you think this should be done for all maps with piste numbers? Will the signposts in Saalbach say just "2a" or "2a Jausernabfahrt"? Do you know of resorts that show numbers on the piste map but just names on the signposts? If so I will just enable piste numbers on a per-resort basis. When piste numbers are enabled, I think I will include both, eg "2a Jausernabfahrt". Expect this update the next time the server is updated, within a week or so.
Poster: A snowHead
Wed 13-11-19 0:28
Replies: 80
This one is missing in OpenStreetMap itself. I'm not sure how best to handle these cases at the moment. Short connecting pistes can be manually added within Ski Nav itself, especially if it affects how two large areas connect together. I'm going to leave this for now until I have a better strategy in place. For now, if you can see the piste on [url=http://opensnowmap.org]opensnowmap.org or [url=http://openskimap.org]openskimap.org but not in [url=https://ski-nav-app.com]Ski Nav, please report it. Note I am aware of some missing routes in Portes du Soleil currently that have been mapped in a different style and are not picked up by Ski Nav just yet.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Tue 12-11-19 23:45
Replies: 80
Glad to hear it @Dougie. Thanks for reporting the missing piste. Ski Nav was misinterpreting the "abandoned=no" key that had been set in the OSM data and hiding it, so you will have helped fix any other pistes like this. You should see the fix next time I push an update to the server (within a week probably).
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name.
Tue 12-11-19 17:17
Replies: 80
@retsil the ability to mark lifts as closed shouldn't be too far off. For now you'd have to set a waypoint. Ditto automatic re-routing. It's not there currently but it is planned.
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Tue 12-11-19 2:08
Replies: 80
@ster sure, have a look now. You might need to clear your cache if it's less than a day since you last checked.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mon 11-11-19 17:38
Replies: 80
Sorry about that @ster. The messaging should be better. Unforunately the NASA elevation data used to create the 3D map only goes to 60 degrees north of latitude. So resorts in Alaska, Iceland, Finland, Norway north of Oslo and Sweden north of Stockholm do not have maps and should not be listed. I don't think I will ever be able to source alternative height data but it's possible I might support flat maps in those regions at some point. The height data is also used to correct lifts/pistes that have been mapped the wrong way round but it's not essential.
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Mon 11-11-19 12:10
Replies: 80
@SBP as far as I know they're only linked in that they are both web-based viewers for OpenStreetMap data. There's also openskimap.org and there used to be openpistemap.org. There is freemap.sk ([url=https://www.freemap.sk/?map=13/46.602702/7.955303&layers=O&tool=route-planner&points=46.588596/7.962170,46.607823/7.944660,46.621975/7.991697&transport=ski]example ski route here). I think [url=https://www.xctrails.org/map/map.html?type=routing]xctrails.org only does XC skiing so it doesn't know about lift/piste directions, could be wrong.
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Mon 11-11-19 12:10
Replies: 80
@ecureuil to do this press the X button to the left of the lift name then "End route".
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Sun 10-11-19 15:12
Replies: 80
@jellylegs yes location sharing will be the next significant feature. You'll enter your phone number and pick people from your address book you'd like to share with.
Then you'll get to see more forums.
Sat 9-11-19 14:16
Replies: 80
@espri oops, thank you. @Mr.Egg yes similar to 4riders for sure. I have focused on trying to make Ski Nav easy to use. It seems 4riders is mainly French resorts (if the website is up to date). The maps in Ski Nav are automatically generated worldwide and so far I've been through the biggest 20 or so resorts to make sure that, for example, the camera angle is correct and there are not missing areas. I plan to get Apple Watch integration via notifications. I started working on that but put it on hold to concentrate on essential features for the first release. For non watch users, this would also mean just pressing the power button without taking your gloves off to see the notification on your phone.
And post your own questions...
Sat 9-11-19 13:51
Replies: 80
The bus route you mention @Yorksboy has been are included on the official piste map as black starred line. Re-routing is on my feature list @adithorp but again please note it might be a while. There might just be a "Mark lift as closed" button first. There were a few general points about orientation which I acknowledge could be better. @Rupert_rich Yes the town labels are not ideal. It's a bit tricky to get something that looks good for all maps. It will improve but it might take time. I have increased the steepness of the view in the web demo but it's not updated on the app yet. Do you find Auris en Oisans okay in the [url=https://ski-nav-app.com/demo]web demo? (It's interesting to note how rotated the official map is in that area -- this confused me greatly when I skied there.) Yes I will try to add the option to have text labels on lifts soon. I think it might look cluttered if it's on by default but also could be helpful for orientation. Ditto the list of lift/pistes to jump to. I'll add a text size setting. I'll make it zoom the whole interface so feedback again later if this isn't quite what you want.
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Sat 9-11-19 0:01
Replies: 80
Glad you like it. What you see now is free with no ads. Extra features like location sharing would be an in-app purchase.
And they're a friendly bunch.
Fri 8-11-19 18:31
Replies: 80
Ah, I see what you mean. It's the distance assuming you follow the centre line of the piste itself. It's the distance you would use to say how many km of piste there are in a resort.
You know it makes sense.
Fri 8-11-19 17:59
Replies: 80
You may like to know about a new app called point-to-point route directions on piste maps worldwide. You might want to find out how long it takes to ski across a new resort you have a trip booked to before you go. Or you might want to use it while on the slopes to get the quickest route to the cafe in the next valley, say. The next feature will be location sharing where you choose from your contact list who to share with and for how long. That should be out in a few months. The map quality is pretty good generally thanks to the people who contribute to OpenStreetMap. The app itself has some logic to fill in the gaps. The graphical representation of the map is very simple but it's a fixed 3D angle like the paper map so that should make it easy to use. It's not for everyone but I think there's a sizeable minority of you out there who like this kind of thing. Feel free to give me any feedback or feature requests here or at skinavapp@gmail.com. *The demo doesn't work in Internet Explorer or Edge - sorry while I fix that - use Chrome/Firefox/Safari/Opera or download the (very small) app.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thu 27-06-19 9:58
Replies: 25
That may well be a better idea generally. For me personally, it takes me further out my comfort zone and extends the scope in a way I can't control or commit to. It looks like SkiLynx did this, whether it was an independent app first I don't know. The OSM lift data is not perfect but pretty good and avoids the work of lots of customisation per resort. If I could find better mountain restaurant data that would be great. I might do per-resort branding, just for searchability in the app stores. MTB has been suggested to me before. I would need to get a basic understanding of the market to consider that but thanks.
Poster: A snowHead
Tue 25-06-19 9:57
Replies: 25
I did appreciate your estimate of the breakdown of users last time and you're probably right but I don't mind taking the risk. It seems to me it's estimate but that the upper limit is quite high IF an app ticks just the boxes for a large minority of users (clearly many here not interested).
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mon 24-06-19 19:53
Replies: 25
@Mr.Egg that is incredibly helpful. I've poked around the skiplan website before but never found the list of resorts and I had no idea they covered that many. Thanks!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name.
Mon 24-06-19 17:17
Replies: 25
Oh, I see what you mean. So far I just looked at lift status information for the Three Valleys which is provided by Skiplan/Lumiplan, eg [url=https://www.skiplan.com/bulletin/bulletin.php?station=courchevel&region=alpes&pays=france]https://www.skiplan.com/bulletin/bulletin.php, who cover several other resorts with the same webpage format. I have previously written code to grab this data from the webpage (not strictly an API) but it also needs some name-matching rules to link with the OSM map data. From memory (could be wrong), the Thee Valleys app had a dump of this page inside it, but it wasn't usable or integrated with a map. But as long as there's a live webpage, the data can be got fairly easily, even if the official resort apps doesn't get the same information -- for whatever reason.
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Mon 24-06-19 10:15
Replies: 25
@Poogle regarding lift/run open/closed status, this IS something I may do. I have only lowered the priority because I can't do it automatically for all resorts. Please speak up anyone else who also wants this feature.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mon 24-06-19 10:13
Replies: 25
@Poogle, not negative, just constructive. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm trying to get the balance of simple and informative (not overly complicated but not lacking necessary detail). One issue I sometimes have with the paper maps is not being able to tell which way round a lift/piste is, one advantage of my map. On the other hand it doesn't show trees, rocks and buildings for assessing better the "lie of the land". I take your point about fun, exploration and adventure. Skadi is a much-developed app that gets this wrong in my view, having overly-detailed voice directions. I only want to provide a better alternative to the necessity of having SOME kind of map. Then showing your friends, having route suggestions, etc are bonuses on top if you're chosing to use it anyway.
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Mon 24-06-19 10:11
Replies: 25
@Mr.Egg, ah, interesting that you use it in a different way than I would have imagined. And pressing unlocking with the power button vs tapping the screen makes all the difference to you. Thanks for your comments. It highlights the fact my route screen does not show the first lift you need without first tapping once -- I will change that. If I add automatic re-routing as an option, that will mean you can always see the name of the next lift required just by pressing the power button.
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Sun 23-06-19 23:51
Replies: 25
@Mr.Egg Thanks, I see you pointed out 4riders to me last time. The map graphics are good. Personally, I thought the scroll/zoom controls and route UI were too awkward to use for it to be useful on the piste. Would you use Ski Nav? Any suggestions for features you don't get from 4riders? (I am assuming you are not related to the developer.)
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Sun 23-06-19 17:43
Replies: 25
Thanks @Poogle. Can you elaborate why the map is hard to read? Specifically the 3D (the fixed angle is supposed to make it resemble the paper map)? Accuracy/relevance of village/town labels? No lift names shown directly on the map? When you zoom out, the text labels get smaller so you can't read them? This app will show friends (but not on the official map of course).
Then you'll get to see more forums.
Fri 21-06-19 17:59
Replies: 25
@Dave, I've tried hard to make it usable with a few taps and a single hand. I guess that still won't compete with a paper map for everyone but many I hope. I've never used FATMAP seriously but as far as I can tell, it's not an app for quickly using on the piste to see where you are or get directions. USP is a simple easy-to-use map for seeing where you are and getting directions. I haven't seen a resort app yet that does achieves that in my opinion. If one or two resort-specific apps are better, that's okay. Do you think FATMAP competes here? Planned customers would be direct in-app purchases for features. QC, tricky yes, I can do no better than having a feedback channel and working off that.
And post your own questions...
Fri 21-06-19 17:57
Replies: 25
@queenie, I feel the same about 3D views in general. My intention with the fixed-angle view was to keep the benefit of the paper map view with a bit more shape information coming naturally as you scroll around. Do you find this view weird or slow or do you mean just in general? I'm testing on an old phone that could never run, say, FATMAP. I hadn't decided about the pistes. Either select as normal or long-tap. Similarly I'm not sure if it's okay to not show lift names directly on the map.
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Fri 21-06-19 15:44
Replies: 25
Hi. I'm looking for feedback for a prototype of an app (Paradiski map. I've just put a handful of maps but it will support everything [url=https://openskimap.org]OpenStreetMap does. Bear in mind I haven't yet fixed the raw data but a lot of improvement is fairly easy. For example some lifts are backwards and it sometimes lets you get on in the middle of a lift. I also plan to group nearby restaurants so that the view is not so cluttered. The main user interface is quite rough around the edges but it IS how I currently plan it, so please comment on this if you don't like it! Thanks for any feedback. https://ski-nav-app.com/web [img]https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1zhA300SvocNLToxC24ht9bWMGcBrF2S5[/img]
And they're a friendly bunch.
Tue 19-02-19 18:56
Replies: 17
Really helpful again, thanks. I had reviewed around 20 apps before posting here and am surprised how many I've missed. 4riders is a good shout -- all I can say is I believe a 2D non-scale map based on the piste map would be more usable. The key difference I'm pushing is the suggested fun-things-to-do or challenges in addition to the point-to-point navigation, but it doesn't sounds like any of you are particularly enthused by that so far. Personally, I also like the feeling of floating around and just knowing roughly where things are, but I would like a little extra push of what to do, especially after a few days in a resort. Given that I'm just one person competing in a large existing market, I had thought I would first try to make a minimal app with a key new feature, ie simple, fast navigation with additional suggested challenges. Tracking, groups and social-media-sharing could then potentially come later but I wouldn't expect to be able to compete without novel functionality. Data-wise, the OpenStreetMap data seems pretty good for lifts and pistes in order to build the connectedness structure, though I would expect to have to add in the odd lift and piste on a per-resort basis. I can also grab and cache the lift/piste open/closed status from the resort website (assuming I'm not ignoring a legal issue). What https://liftie.info/ does for example. Ditto deriving a 2D map from the background of the official one, though I'd have to add the GPS coordinates of several anchor points and then draw lifts/pistes on top.
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