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My current worst skiing flaw

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm getting quicker - and that's great. Today I overtook, much more than I was overtaken. But the actual overtaking (mainly on narrower runs) makes me unduly nervous.
The trick of gauging your own speed and then checking the speed of the person you're overtaking, and then trying to work out if they're going to either turn back into your path, or do an unexpected manoeuvre...I know it's completely normal to have to deal with this, and I'll manage it with experience, but are there any tips? I chose today to be happy breaking into a quick snow plough behind a slower skier until the route is clear. It's certainly better than my former technique, of either leaving it too late and then getting too close to the overtakee and apologising, or just pausing and waiting for the person in front to go further down.

What does everyone else do?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 2-03-13 22:43; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:

I chose today to be happy breaking into a quick snow plough behind a slower skier until the route is clear.

I do that quite frequently. And usually realise that I could usefully use more snowplough practice. And slow snowplough turn practice. wink
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Try to overtake so you are passing the person as they turn away from you. If they are turning to the right, pass them on the left.
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Thank you @rob@@rar and @pam w -
I'll give the passing as they turn away thing a go. I knew there would be a technique
x
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On runs which are busy enough overtaking needs real thought, don't? Just slow down. It sound to me like you are having to cut it way to close - , better to just roll with the flow until the bottleneck eases and you have more room to play with. There is no hurry and it's a courtesy to the less experienced to not give them death-from-above as an additional worry ;o) Unless there is a flat coming up in which it's everywoman for herself and rob is right Toofy Grin
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a.j., thanks - I think that is great advice. This does tend to happen on narrows (eg The Traverse) and the additional problem there is, can I get away from them before they turn back towards me.
PS I'm poo-poo at overtaking cars too.
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If they are slow I ski straight at them. By the time I get there they are somewhere else. Be ready for a quick stoppie though
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Quote:

PS I'm poo-poo at overtaking cars too


Blimey! Where do you ski?? Madeye-Smiley
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....... on the M25 by the sounds of it.
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CairnGorm if she's having problems overtaking on the traverse - and its ussually piste bashers not cars that have to be overtaken (or avoided if they are coming up the slope).
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At the risk of stating the obvious, it's hardest to overtake when your speed is closely matched to the person you're overtaking as it takes longer for you to pass them, so carrying a little more speed and being decisive can be very helpful.

Making sure the person you're overtaking is aware you're there is also a good idea, as being surprised by someone passing you can be unsettling. Tapping poles seems to be the skiing equivalent of the bicycle bell.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
It's sometimes difficult to predict when they are going to turn. You can cut down the options by waiting until they are heading towards the side of the piste. Then you know they are going to turn soon and probably not come back too swiftly. Then, as soon as they commit to the turn, accelerate towards them and skoot past on the outside just as they're heading back towards the middle of the piste.

Top tip for beginners - make predictable turns!
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kieranm wrote:
Making sure the person you're overtaking is aware you're there is also a good idea, as being surprised by someone passing you can be unsettling. Tapping poles seems to be the skiing equivalent of the bicycle bell.
I'm not sure it is such a good idea. How can someone in front of you know what side you intend to pass them on if they hear some pole taps from behind them? Will all inexperienced skiers know what a pole tap means? What do you expect the skier in front of you to do when they hear the pole taps? Will a nervous skier be spooked by an unusual noise coming from behind them?

IMO much better to pass when it is safe to do so, including leaving enough room (or being able to slow down) if the skier in front to does something unexpected. It might rely on you being patient for a few extra seconds, but that's not really a big deal.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon 4-03-13 13:21; edited 1 time in total
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kieranm wrote:
Making sure the person you're overtaking is aware you're there is also a good idea, as being surprised by someone passing you can be unsettling. Tapping poles seems to be the skiing equivalent of the bicycle bell.

But then they are more likely to do something random, it's easier to overtake someone who doesn't know you are there.
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When overtaking, expect the unexpected!
http://youtube.com/v/6GZfqTNejs0
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Ski up the sides, on the high side if available, usually works for us Toofy Grin

Mind the cannons though! Shocked rolling eyes
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zellmaniac, haha! Yup, I'm an outside lane skier
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I quite often shout 'coming through!' Or 'on your right/left' if there's little wind and my voice can carry.
But alerting someone does inevitably make them turn around.

I think patience and wide berths will be my thing from now on
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How the Pro's do it >>>>>>>>>


http://youtube.com/v/St-nEGiRs_M

snowHead
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Quote:

kieranm wrote:


Making sure the person you're overtaking is aware you're there is also a good idea, as being surprised by someone passing you can be unsettling. Tapping poles seems to be the skiing equivalent of the bicycle bell.


I'm not sure it is such a good idea. How can someone in front of you know what side you intend to pass them on if they hear some pole taps from behind them? Will all inexperienced skiers know what a pole tap means? What do you expect the skier in front of you to do when they hear the pole taps? Will a nervous skier be spooked by an unusual noise coming from behind them?



IMO much better to pass when it is safe to do so, including leaving enough room (or being able to slow down) if the skier in front to does something unexpected. It might rely on you being patient for a few extra seconds, but that's not really a big deal.



Totally agree with that last sentence - I just think politely letting the person you're approaching know you're there is a good idea as well. It doesn't have to be either/or. I'd never suggest overtaking where it wasn't safe to do so or leave enough room.

I don't expect them to do anything about it, so no problem there, it's just about being courteous and not surprising them. If they do something expected or get spooked that's OK - you're (of course) not skiing fast and can easily stop or avoid them.

I'm just thinking of times when I've been skiing with my children and occasionally when someone has overtaken us it's spooked the kids because they didn't expect someone to come past. Perhaps a lot of that was someone being too close or too fast when passing and if they'd left more room it would have been fine.

It's a bit like making sure you pass a boarder on the side they're facing rather than behind their back - they're far more likely to notice you're there and not be surprised.
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kieranm, I've wondered what's going on when I've had poles clicked at me from behind, thinking whether I should do something in particular. IMO you've either got enough space and speed to pass someone without them needing to wonder what's going on, or you haven't got the space in which case be patient for a few moments. If people are being spooked by being overtaken without warning perhaps the overtaking skier was too close? I think pole clicks are too much of a distraction and should be avoided.
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Sofia wrote:
I'm getting quicker - and that's great. Today I overtook, much more than I was overtaken.

Skiing faster doesn't mean your necessarily becoming a better skier. If you really are skiing in control then overtaking becomes a lot easier.

If you really need to overtake someone then leave them a lot more room than you think they will need. So if its too narrow then slow down and wait for the piste to widen.
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Quote:

Tapping poles seems to be the skiing equivalent of the bicycle bell

If it is then my first ski instructor neglected to teach me that, and I certainly don't recall seeing in the FIS ski code.

Downhill skier/boarder has priority. The one passing has to be able to pass safely, anticipate the actions of the skier/boarder being passed, and be prepared to even stop.

Pole clicks to me sound like someone saying "Oi! Faster skier coming thru, get out of my way!" (which is not compatible with the FIS ski code that I was made aware of). So if I hear them, I do the sensible thing and ignore them, and I certainly won't move to one side or purposefully make a gap on one side or the other. If they want to come past, the onus is on them to find a way past.
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andy wrote:
Pole clicks to me sound like someone saying "Oi! Faster skier coming thru, get out of my way!" (which is not compatible with the FIS ski code that I was made aware of). So if I hear them, I do the sensible thing and ignore them, and I certainly won't move to one side or purposefully make a gap on one side or the other. If they want to come past, the onus is on them to find a way past.


An interesting interpretation on the person clicking the poles.

Still at least you know they are there. That should make the situation safer for both parties which is the more likely intention of the person clicking the poles.


edit due to code error.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 4-03-13 17:31; edited 1 time in total
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[quote="AndAnotherThing.."]
andy wrote:
Quote:
Pole clicks to me sound like someone saying "Oi! Faster skier coming thru, get out of my way!" (which is not compatible with the FIS ski code that I was made aware of). So if I hear them, I do the sensible thing and ignore them, and I certainly won't move to one side or purposefully make a gap on one side or the other. If they want to come past, the onus is on them to find a way past.


An interesting interpretation on the person clicking the poles.

Still at least you know they are there. That should make the situation safer for both parties which is the more likely intention of the person clicking the poles.


So someone who is new, or relatively new to skiing would automatically interpret ski poles being clicked together as a warning that there is someone approaching them from behind. In spite of never having been taught that (because no-one DOES teach that)?

And furthermore, they should then consider taking action to either more out of the way, or may be ski in a straight line to avoid causing a potential clash?

I think most people, who may either be new or slightly nervous would probably panic and their interpretation of "Oi! Faster skier coming thru, get out of my way!" would be both reasonable and possibly correct.
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Oh, I totally agree about pole clicks being the wrong thing to do, so distracting and intimidating. I prefer to keep quiet and follow the other skier, moving from side to side to stay out of sight if necessary, stay a couple of chairs behind on lifts, use an unmarked car when tailing them back to the chalet, wear dark clothing and soft shoes while going through their possessions, fly below radar when returning to the UK, enter through the back door of their house, hide in a wardrobe and then leap out shouting BOO!!!

Do I heck.

If you hear clicks, the other skier is already passing you and they want you to be aware of their presence and not ski suddenly towards them, which you wouldn't do if you knew they were there, which you didn't because you weren't looking, which you should.

If you hear, 'A Gauche', 'Rechts' or 'Pista!', you know there is someone passing and if you hear them all on the same day, you know you're in Switzerland.
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Only time I've ever heard "On your left!" is from fat, British, out of control skiers barging their way down a narrow piste. In a full (punter) tuck, with poles pointing to the planet Mars. Never heard it in any other major European language, and I know enough of them to recognise such an alert.

Again, I don't recall this being in FIS code, nor being taught by my first ski teacher. As a general rule, I'll leave a 1m gap to the edge of the piste. If you think you can get thru, then feel free to do so.

Oh and fatso did shout "cheers mate!" as he barged past. Is it really that obvious that I ski like a Brit on a blue run? Puzzled
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thirty06 wrote:

If you hear clicks, the other skier is already passing you and they want you to be aware of their presence and not ski suddenly towards them, which you wouldn't do if you knew they were there, which you didn't because you weren't looking, which you should.



I guess whatever one is taught about FIS codes and general safety on the mountains, as in all things, people sometimes feel that, in spite of the perceived wisdom, they will always know best rolling eyes

Suffice to say, that as the downhill skier, whilst moving, I will continue to accept that it is the approaching (uphill from me) skier who has the responsibility not to run into me...not the other way round, regardless of any tw@ts who click their poles. Until, of course the "rules" are changed.
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Quote:

Suffice to say, that as the downhill skier, whilst moving, I will continue to accept that it is the approaching (uphill from me) skier who has the responsibility not to run into me...not the other way round, regardless of any tw@ts who click their poles. Until, of course the "rules" are changed.


Quite right too. But I think you might be misunderstanding the pole clicker's intention, at least in some cases. I'm sure there are those who use it to try and barge past, but in my case it's purely to politely let the downhill skier know I'm there so they aren't surprised. I'm perfectly happy hanging back to wait for a suitable gap. I'm not trying to change the FIS rules. I make sure I don't run into anyone, regardless of pole clicking and who is uphill.
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I click at people just to let them know I'm there; and give a merci, grazie, danke, ta bud or whatever as I go past.

I thought it was like tinging the bell on your bike on the towpath.

And just to think; all these years I've been terrorizing people all over the hills.
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Quote:

But I think you might be misunderstanding the pole clicker's intention, at least in some cases

I have no idea what the pole clicker's intention is. If they barge past, I know they were being impolite. If they pass carefully, then there was no need for the pole click. Then I'll know what their intention was.

Hence why I ignore any pole clicking, shouting, whooping, etc. unless for some reason I do something silly like swerve to the edge, maybe to avoid some other obstacle, and might be cutting someone off. If the uphill skier can't put in a check or a swerve, then they are very much in the wrong.
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Tbh, I've never had poles clicked at me, can't remember even seeing it, is it "so this season?"

I think if someone did it to me, I'd have to spend the afternoon following them around the mountain returning the good will gesture! Evil or Very Mad
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gatecrasher, ditto. I'd be oblivious to someone clicking their poles at me. What's wrong with giving everyone plenty of room? I'd much rather stop and wait than clobber someone's kid because I was chancing squeezing past.
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gatecrasher, as far as my brain can remember, it's been going on for decades.
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Mosha Marc, Shows how much notice I take of the outside world! Laughing
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rob@rar wrote:
kieranmIMO you've either got enough space and speed to pass someone without them needing to wonder what's going on, or you haven't got the space in which case be patient for a few moments. If people are being spooked by being overtaken without warning perhaps the overtaking skier was too close? I think pole clicks are too much of a distraction and should be avoided.


In full agreement with this statement.
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The pole clicking is actually morse code. It means, "I am a w&nker".
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clicking on cattracks is very common and has been for as long as I've been skiing - i appreciate it as a warning myself, and do it from time to time, where the closing speeds are so slow you are going to be alongside each other for a while. I would never do it on a normal run, but on cattracks I don't think it's practical for us all to wait for the normal amount of space to open up, instead you have to assume everyone will continue to straightline and knowing who is where is handy.

I am aware it always causes a snowheads civil war though *fetches popcorn* maybe someone should make a poll snowHead
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Really don't see what everyone's problem with pole clicks are, I use them every now and again to let people know I'm behind them, generally on narrower runs where I want to maintain speed. Weird that people get offended by it, how would you prefer I let you know that I am overtaking you?
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I'm speechless with astonishment at the responses to the issue of pole clicking, although I note that most people who are against the idea don't seem to have ever had poles clicked 'at' them.

My view is that pole clicking is not only a sensible idea, but highly considerate. It is only relevant on those flat, narrow pistes when some skiiers will, in contradiction of all Galileo taught me, travel fatser than others. Politely clicking ones poles a couple of times as you slowly approach is not a signal for anyone to get out of the way it's just a way of saying "just so you know, I'm here". You don't expect anyone to get out of your way or do anything unusual. It's just a polite warning.....like the bicycle bell.

As an overtaker I will always give people masses of room, but I'd still be grateful they thought twice before putting in a sudden turn to the very edge of the piste.

Having been on the other side of the equation I can vouch for the fact that having a skiier, whom you hadn't realised was there, suddenly overtake you is extremely distracting/disconcerting.

Of course, it all depends how the pole tapping is done. In much the same way as a flash of car headlights can mean 'after you', 'just to warn you, I'm here', or even 'What the **** do you think you are doing'. Certainly the way I click my poles has never engendered anything so much as a dirty look.
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