 Poster: A snowHead
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Being search incompetent, a little help would be greatly appreciated. A couple of us are off to Chamonix next Saturday, and interested in skiing down the Aiguille du Midi. However, we can't afford to hire a guide purely just for us, and would like to share. I remember seeing a post about guide sharing, would anybody happen to know the website? Or, even better, would anybody like to split the costs of a guide for the day?
Cheers,
Jonny
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hokipoki, i think i've seen quite a few guides offering a group Vallee Blanche descent - so you may be able to join one of those.
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The ski school in chamonix (http://www.esfchamonix.com/ecole_index.php?lang=fr&sp=ecole_index) offers guided descents of Aiguille du Midi - groups of around 6 - used to be around 70 euros.
Great place - have fun!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can't you just ski it on your own or is it that difficult to find a way down?
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@Belski3, not that difficult, but every year a handful of plucky tourists find themselves killed, completely to death, falling down crevasse that weren't apparent.
It's not worth the risk if you don't know exactly what you're doing.
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It's not just "plucky tourists" guiding is a very high risk occupation. If you and everyone in your party have the knowhow and experience then yes you can ski the Vallee Blanche without a guide. The problems start when only one person in a party knows what to do and he/she is the one at the bottom of the hole.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Belski3, google first the "descent arrete aguile du midi" - enjoy the views ... Second, high mountain environment is dangerous - google statistics of casualties in vallee blanche each year ... Third, skiing itself - depends as there are several routes (once down the ridge  ).
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This is a very old thread (Started Jan 2013)! But I agree with @under a new name, if you do not know what you are doing better to take a guide. There was a vid on TV a few days ago showing what can go wrong if you ski into one of the crevasses on the route down. It might be on Youtube as well by now. They did get him out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thank you for the replies. I've emailed a guide so will hopefully get some prices and confirm. I really want to do it on skis and a board after. I did avalanche training back in 90 so no clue now. Can I ask once a guide has taken you down are you then more proficient in the route needed. Obviously things can change very quickly on the mountain and that's when experience kicks in or agreed the trouble starts. I saw one Brit was killed after turning back up there. I will watch the link and take on the advice given.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you are asking "can I do it without a guide?" then you can't do it without a guide. You need to be self sufficient in the mountain environment and 99% of recreational skiers are not.
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@8611, well, that's the easy answer. But we saw two completely hopeless Japanese boarder girls at the top and at the bottom a couple of seasons ago - they managed it and we were quite relieved to see them do so.
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You know it makes sense.
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Yes agreed. I'm taking a guide. Looking for a holiday not a disaster
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Belski3, if you're wanting to board it, you might like to ping Lars at www.mountainpenguins,com. No idea of his availability.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ever so slightly off topic, but we're off to Courmayeur first weekend in December. Assuming we get a couple of decent dumps between now and then does anyone know if there will be any guiding going on either side of tunnel- we did VB years ago pre-kids and are keen to go back with them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @8611, well, that's the easy answer. But we saw two completely hopeless Japanese boarder girls at the top and at the bottom a couple of seasons ago - they managed it and we were quite relieved to see them do so. |
I reckon if you put one hundred of them up there probably 95 of them would get down grand. But the consequences for the 5 are worth thinking about. Going down the arete without crampons or a harness or without knowing how to use them, falling into a crevasse, following the wrong tracks, the weather coming in etc etc. People taking the proverbial ruin it for others, take up time of rescuers etc.
There's a community of lads who love the mountains and dedicate their lives to bringing gringos like me up, not a few of them die up there themselves, it's expensive to engage them but well worth it for all concerned and irresponsible to suggest otherwise (I know you're not btw).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh, absolutely.@8611, we are of like mind.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Doccam wrote: |
| Ever so slightly off topic, but we're off to Courmayeur first weekend in December. Assuming we get a couple of decent dumps between now and then does anyone know if there will be any guiding going on either side of tunnel- we did VB years ago pre-kids and are keen to go back with them. |
Very unlikely you'll be able to ski the VB in early Dec, there are some big holes that need good cover.
If you are very lucky there could be other off piste available but it's a long shot in early Dec. If it's cold enough the pistes should be in good nick though, Courmayeur has incredible snow making.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks Sah. Thought as much. Back in Feb 1\2 term so we'll do it then. Good to hear about the snowmaking- hadn't appreciated they had that nailed as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sorry Sah also my daughter has just said you deserve a smiley face for the good info so-  !
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| sah wrote: |
| Doccam wrote: |
| Sorry Sah also my daughter has just said you deserve a smiley face for the good info so- ! |
I once skied in Courmayeur when pretty much everything in Chamonix was closed due to lack of snow. Courmayeur had all pistes open with the snow making. It's a great place, maybe a bit small if there's not enough cover for off piste, but a nice place to be. Hope you get some snow, the way it's looking this week you might get lucky if it keep up! |
I did so too this April - it was great. Although we had one day trip from Chamonix to Courmayeur - I really enjoyed the IT side more ... maybe did not have enought time to discover all the 'cons', thus rather 'pros' were for me comparing to Chamonix ... Of course, in April, there were not that many people, so we enjoyed the wide open pistes a lot. Nothing super challening, but we had fun and enjoyed the place a lot. Oh, the food back in Courmayeur was wonderfull too, we did not even search for something special, just poped-in into first place we fancied and it was great.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A little late here, but my one descent down was easily one of the best runs ever. Took a group with the ski school, dnot recall that it was overly expensive. Originally 5 of us, but guide sent 2 back down after talking to them and realizing they had no poles and minimum clothing (idiots, there, I said it). Incredible run, a bit leisurely, but do as the French I guess. Congratulatory beers afterwards and the guide starts getting a bunch of calls. As it turns out, his friend, also a guide, in a group behind, fell into one of the crevasses and perished. Horrible, was mid-20s only. So yes it's dangerous and I never go into off piste areas I don't know now without a guide.
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The bottom half is very flat so if you are boarding it is worth having poles in case of sticky snow.
The basic way down is very easy, so if you do it twice you might want to do a harder route the second time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is it just me, or is the Vallee Blanche more than a little over rated??
I love Chamonix, which I've probably visited 15-20 times by now, and I'm back again at New Years , and I'd say I've done the VB 5 or 6 times with ski buddies using various guides. I don't think I've ever really enjoyed it tbh. Firstly, the lift up, putting on crampons, roping up & general faffing takes ages, then you scare the bejaysus out of yourself on the ice steps, then the routes down seem to be very heavily crevasse laden, so you can never really fully relax & just have a blast, and finally at the end of the run when you're most tired you reach those fupping steps which will knacker whatever enthusiasm you.ve left. And then you have to go faffing thru lifts/trains all over again to get down. All told - a complete pain in the ass imho!!
Worse, last time I did about 4 years ago, a guide & both his clients were lost the same morning on the VB. Stuff that for a game of soldiers, life is already too short!!
p.s. or am I missing something?!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| horgand wrote: |
p.s. or am I missing something?! |
the waist deep powder days
the mid station back down to town powder days
the multiple lap days
the "easy" exit out where you can look at the high high mountains you are surrounded by
the ski all the way back into chamonix when conditions are right- no train faffing
the excellent freeirding, ski touring and steep ski mountaineering available to you
I don't like:
the que's which are apparently unsolvable on manic days
leap frogging around the herds of tourists tied together with one helpless guide
But being surrounded by such high mountains! you can't beat it!
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@horgand, it's pretty unique in that it offers a decent intermediate the chance to sample a proper mountain day out in high mountain terrain. multiple repeats of the trade route wouldn't really float my boat, and it's certainly not the best choice if you want to bang out some fast laps or loads of vertical in a single day
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You know it makes sense.
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| horgand wrote: |
Is it just me, or is the Vallee Blanche more than a little over rated??
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No I'm in your boat, did it once and was disappointed. Skiing is just too boring, went up GM afterwards with the guide and had a lot more fun off piste down towards the Argentiere glacier (I think).
Would love to go up into the VB with a guide and do a bit of skinning and something slightly (only slightly mind!) more challenging though. Tourist route isn't the best.
@OliC I'm sure that's all true but its beyond the abilities / competencies of me and 97% of other skiers without a guide
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| horgand wrote: |
Is it just me, or is the Vallee Blanche more than a little over rated??
I love Chamonix, which I've probably visited 15-20 times by now, and I'm back again at New Years , and I'd say I've done the VB 5 or 6 times with ski buddies using various guides. I don't think I've ever really enjoyed it tbh. Firstly, the lift up, putting on crampons, roping up & general faffing takes ages, then you scare the bejaysus out of yourself on the ice steps, then the routes down seem to be very heavily crevasse laden, so you can never really fully relax & just have a blast, and finally at the end of the run when you're most tired you reach those fupping steps which will knacker whatever enthusiasm you.ve left. And then you have to go faffing thru lifts/trains all over again to get down. All told - a complete pain in the ass imho!!
Worse, last time I did about 4 years ago, a guide & both his clients were lost the same morning on the VB. Stuff that for a game of soldiers, life is already too short!!
p.s. or am I missing something?! |
LIke OliC said.
Or if you are going for more than just the views (what most people do as the skiing is not what they are there for) - go with a private guide, make sure your buddies ski at least as well as you do and ski one of the many variants - the "voie touristique" is just that, it's a sight seeing run, but there is so much more to be skiied, and still within the relms of reality for a good many skier - plan to meet your guide before the first list opens, if possible book a guide by recomendation - yes there is a huge difference - if your group is fit enough plan on 2 laps, but with timings so you can do a third if your legs hold out - to do this you do realy need t be skiing all the way to Cham (not difficult, just needs snow) - Grab lunch form one of the boulangerie between laps or after your seccond if your quitting.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| horgand wrote: |
Is it just me, or is the Vallee Blanche more than a little over rated??
(snip)
p.s. or am I missing something?! |
I've only done it once, but with a good guide. The snow was nice and the weather was glorious and we skinned up to the border with Italy (can't remember which bit) and then had a nice ski at the top where there was no risk of falling into a crevasse. Skiied almost all the way back into town, too (though it got a bit scratchy at the end!). I can see how going directly down from the lift could be a lot less enjoyable though
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That sounds class. Going all the way to the village would be amazing, one of the longest lift accessed runs in the world beaten only by going all the way from mont blanc summit down, would probably require a winter summit though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Was at Cham a couple of years ago at New Years and guides were not taking customers on VB; not enough snow to cover the crevasses. The mountains are a dangerous place. Only a fool takes unnecessary and unquantified risks. Sadly some of these people are skiers...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| hudds7 wrote: |
| Was at Cham a couple of years ago at New Years and guides were not taking customers on VB; not enough snow to cover the crevasses. The mountains are a dangerous place. Only a fool takes unnecessary and unquantified risks. Sadly some of these people are skiers... |
So the people who ski up there every October before the lift closes for autumn are all fools? Even if they are some of the best aspirant guides or cream of the Valleys steep skiers?
Surely every skier, even taking on a blue run has a little bit of foolishness in them. A crash can happen anywhere!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| @Belski3, google first the "descent arrete aguile du midi" - enjoy the views ... Second, high mountain environment is dangerous - google statistics of casualties in vallee blanche each year ... Third, skiing itself - depends as there are several routes (once down the ridge ). |
Very true regarding the arete down to the Valee Blanche from the Aiguille du Midi. I climbed Mont Blanc a few years ago via the Cosmiques route (much better than the Goutier route but that's another story). It is a brutal introduction to the high mountain environment from the safety of the cable car station. If you are not used to a lot of exposure it can be very daunting.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In terms of whether you need a guide to ski of the Aiguille du Midi the simple question is do you have the skills and equipment for glacier travel? Practiced rope work, ice tools, route finding, etc. Basically you need mountaineering experience as well as competent skiing ability.
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| jedster wrote: |
| In terms of whether you need a guide to ski of the Aiguille du Midi the simple question is do you have the skills and equipment for glacier travel? Practiced rope work, ice tools, route finding, etc. Basically you need mountaineering experience as well as competent skiing ability. |
Well said, just wish 60%+ of the people on the VB would think this way!
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