 Poster: A snowHead
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This stems from a discussion on the "Europe vs North America" thread in the resort section.
Over there I stated:
"One thing that I really liked about skiing in the US is the inbounds/outbounds concept. That is, you can go offpiste (chutes, trees etc) but still be in an avalanche-controlled (and I think patrolled) zone - so you can ski by yourself and not pay for a guide. Given how often I ski alone, this is important.
To be honest, I end up going offpiste by myself in Europe, too, but I always have to be mindful to be in sight of a marked run, preferably with people on it, and the risks I take are higher anyway."
And Jonpim replied:
"Cedric, I'm a great fan of off-piste, and happily career around the between-piste-off-piste without a guide, but I would never ski there alone. Even if you can see the piste when you are skiing, no one will see you when you fall. Please, take a buddy with you next time. (I sound more like my grandpa every day)".
Let me clarify. If you ski offpiste but inbounds in the US, the main dangers you avoid (or minimise) are: 1) avalanche and 2) getting lost on the mountain. Other offpiste dangers are there: hitting a tree, getting buried in a tree well, falling out of sight of others, etc. But I believe many ski by themselves inbounds without considering they take on too much risk.
When in Europe, there is no 'inbounds', just off-piste. It's relatively easy to avoid getting lost if you stay within sight of marked runs. That leaves avalanche danger. This is very real and hard to predict. But I don't go off-piste alone when avalanche danger is 4 or 5 (I know I don't myself have sufficient knowledge about snow conditions) and anyway I avoid skiing in places where, if I were to trigger an avalanche (damn that sounds scary), it could end up burying anyone else. I believe I assess the risks and take a conscious decision to accept a certain level of risk. In my experience, that's lower than, say, cycling on the street (I was once hit and toppled over by a car, and a couple of times a car missed me VERY narrowly).
Am I missing something important in my risk assessment? Should I never stray alone, not even leaving the marked run signposts for 20 yards to the right?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Isn't it true that most people get caught in avalanches when the risk is 3?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Many people walk in the hills alone. Many people ski off-piste alone. Some people sail across oceans alone.
Each to his own. Solitude is a right. Just expect a longer delay in rescue if you don't have a buddy to alert the ski patrol. I used to ski alone off-piste. Now, I'm unlikely to do it. But now I'm over 50 and more cautious.
To go far off the beaten track without a buddy is certainly inviting trouble, and more potential hassle for the rescue people.
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Cedric,
I end up skiing offpiste on my own quite a bit (the Vieneese are more hard piste bashers / racers). Here's how I deal with the off piste ......
1. Skiing offpiste alone - stick to where I can be seen by others (at the side of the piste, within sight from lifts etc) so if an avalanche happens then hopefully reaction time will be quick and someone will see me.
2. Skiing with friends (and boarders  ) - Known off piste routes with trees and minimal avanlanche danger.
3. Guide - More difficult, dangerous and unknown runs off the beaten track. (Safety equipment is a must here)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not an advanced skiier, so I always ski within sight of the marked areas to allow me to bail out as much as anything else.
But I do hillwalk and mountainbike alone and have learnt, painfully, that things do go wrong from time to time. Because of this, I always tell my wife where I'm going and a probable time of return and carry a mobile, a compass, a whistle and a gps if I'm on my own. I've also started carrying them whilst skiing (the electric items turned off) in my rucksack.
They won't help in an avalanche (what would) but there are loads of things that could leave you injured and alive. I have no problem with going alone but, as well as the dangers of avalanche, make sure you can contact others and be able to let them know where you are.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
| They won't help in an avalanche (what would) |
The only thing I can think of that might help if caught in an avalanche on your own would be one of those ABS systems. You're dead unless a good part of your upper body ends up above the surface and that's what ABS attempts to ensure...
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Are those the balloon thingys (sorry if that's techno speak)?
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Yes, it's the Avalanche Balloon System
I remember the launch of the invention at the Munich ski trade fair - must have been about 15 years ago. People found the idea hard to believe in, including me. Some years later I skied with a St Anton instructor who had one, which was interesting.
The idea is certainly gaining acceptance and endorsement. Maybe we could find some independent test information.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I used to scuba dive, never went without a buddy. Before considering going off-piste think about the following.
1. if you don't make it back how long will it be before someone notices and comes looking for you.
2. Think about how the people waiting for you will feel when you don't turn up.
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I think so - you tug to inflate and end up with a big airbag helping to carry you to the surface of the slide. Supposedly trying to "swim" (sans poles and skis, obviously) will help keep you afloat as well...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The bigger the better then. It's yer particle dynamics innit, big bits end up on top. like in yer Alpen sort of thing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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An avalanche of Alpen. Interesting concept.
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Ah, but then you'd be able to eat your way out. An avalanche of bran would be far more dangerous - after a teaspoon of that stuff I'm done.
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You know it makes sense.
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But is a balloon enough? Why not some kind of rocket pack that could catapult you a few hundred feet up in the air, plus a parachute that would float you down once the debris had settled... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The only time I ski off-piste "on my own" is when I am playing by the side of a run within sight and shouting range of my friends/family on the piste. I can easily ski for 3 or 4 weeks on piste without falling, but the snow off-piste is so much more variable, with rocks etc, the risk of falling alone makes major off-piste routes alone a really bad idea for me.
Having said that I come from a mountaineering background where the philosophy is very much "understand the terrain, understand the conditions, take responsibility for yourself", rather than the ski package holiday philosophy "I am a sheep, and if anything goes wrong I will just sue the company"!
On the subject of avalanches, I imagine if it's true that more die at level 3 than any other levels, this is probably because the risk tends to be level 3 for a large proportion of the season, only going to 4 or 5 every couple of weeks after a big snowfall. And the only serious avalanche I have been involved with was while skiing with a guide who had worked in the resort for 12yrs, so again the lesson is "take responsibility for yourself".
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Poster: A snowHead
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DavidS, that'd be handy to get you over any tricky bumps or steeps you didn't fancy doing as well!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just make sure, mid avalanche, that you're pointing the right way up when you pull the trigger or we won't even find you in summer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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That's one nifty ski outfit. Like the helmet - is it a Giro 9.9?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DavidS IS Buzz Lightyear.
To the pub, and beyond!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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That ABS web site was interesting. How many people would have the presence of mind though to pull the trigger when suddenly upended and caught in an avalanche?. I suspect that unless you have been through it before you would just panic.
I think the same probably applies to those avalung things.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Many people walk in the hills alone. Many people ski off-piste alone. Some people sail across oceans alone.
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True David, but standard advice is to tell family/friends/authorities where you are going and when you should be expected back.
I don't think anyone sets off across the ocean alone without making sure a lot of people know about it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Especially if you're Richard Branson. 
Jonpim, that was my point (see above) as well. It's pretty standard safety stuff if you ever spend time on any hill. But, obviously, a lot of people who ski don't have that sort of background.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Some people sail across oceans alone. |
And you'd think someone pretty crazy if they sailed off into the ocean, alone or not, without someone on board who had some kind of navigation qualification...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I do ski off-piste alone sometimes but stick to the following:
1. very close to the piste anywhere that I have not skied before
2. bowls/slope between pistes and visible from pistes
3. areas which I know well but may be just out of view as long as someone nearby knows where I am
4. only when the risk is relatively low
I also carry a mobile and have just invested in a pair of motorola radios.
J
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's not just skiing off-piste alone that I find strange, but skiing alone at all. I'm not the world's most sociable guy, but skiing alone is no fun at all. A major part of skiing for me is being with other people. I mean, without witnesses who is going to believe your spactacular crashes or jump with 12 feet of air? 
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I'm the least sociable person I know (if that makes any sense) but on a skiing holiday I do like to go 'as a group'. it's alright grinning like a goon shooting down a cracking run but if there's no one else enjoying it with you it takes the edge off a tad.
That said though there are times when I just want to head off on my own and not have to worry about anyone else, sometimes I sneak in an extra run whilst waiting for the rest of the group to kit up after dinner.
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You know it makes sense.
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Jonpim, I have skied alone a number of times, but those days are usually like a golf round alone: time to think, clear the head, meditate, pray, and breathe in the fresh, clean air. I don't do it often, but I have skied alone at a number of ski areas, including Heavenly Valley, Loveland, and Breckenridge. I often meet folks on the lifts, though, and do sometimes take runs with them after the fact (especially off the T-bar at Breck).
FWIW, YMMV...
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