les arc off piste -guide or lessons

A snowHead

anyone know anywhere (relatively reasonably priced) that guides and / or offers lessons in Le Arc? A freind and I have just booked for Xmas week and have sone some offpiste before but want to dvelop it or gt away a bit from edge of piste which we will do on our own when we can see where it goes as we dont know Les Arc. Any suggestions of good near piste areas would also be fab. Thanks

A snowHead

You could try Evolution 2 (see: http://evolution2-arc2000.com/fr/cours_prives.html , or others on this website: http://www.lesarcsnet.com/ski/guides.html or I read somewhere that Philippe Deslandes is good.
Unfortunately have no experience of any of them. My experience of being guided in Les Arcs has only been a day taken over there while staying somewhere else (with a guide who I like a lot but is far from cheap).

A lot of the best off piste is quite far from the lifts so you will benefit from a guide (and quite a lot very steep:

) but don't worry, there is gentler stuff around. wink

On piste don't miss the run from the Aiguille Rouge down to Villaroger. An absolute classic. Very Happy

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Bureau des guides in 1800. Some pretty serious off-piste in les Arcs. Enjoy and stay safe

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Is there any reason why guiding in France is three times that in Austria Confused

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Timmaah, is it?

After all it is free

€320 vs €100 but that appears to be because none of the above guiding companies offer mixed group, and seem to be private only.

Timmaah, If you compare like with like if anything Austria is more expensive than France. A private guide at €350 would be fairly normal in France (that's about €60 per person for a group of 6) but Piste to Powder in St Anton it is €550. Switzerland is extremely expensive for guides.

A single person in a public group would, of course, be cheaper than 1, 2 or 3 (and possibly even 4) people in a private group per person. You are normally cheaper per person in a private group compared to a public group if you share between 5 or 6 The total cost of a private guide for fewer people would be slightly less, but not all that much. They have to make the cost per person of a public group more expensive than the cost in an optimum private group because the group may be smaller than optimum (I was once in a top public group of only 2 for a day).

I wish there were guiding companies in more resorts who had open groups: it would encourage more people to use guides.

bitoffluff, If you contact Evolution 2 I would be interested to hear if they do open groups.
Another thread mentions www.oxygene-ski.com/
Since Les Arcs and La Plagne are linked by a lift it might be worth checking if they operate in Les Arcs (or if you can get to one of their groups - but it might take too long to get over there).

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bitoffluff,

Drop me an e-mail with your phone number to panaga52@outlook.com

snowball,
Great view. Where exactly is that? Is it looking down near comborciere (colloquially known as cucumber) towards the road up to 2000?

You know it makes sense.

Chamcham, Yes, just to the right of the Comborciere bowl. You climb up to the ridge from the Clotcheret chairlift (above Arc 1600) and then traverse along the right side of the ridge ahead (towards Arc 2000) up to the Point du Four. It takes about 20 minutes. Two couloirs go down from there, this one (Couloir de la Point du Four) and another next to it. . You can see them from the St Esprit chairlift, but I wouldn't try to find them without a guide.

The real extreme couloirs are off the back of the Aiguille Rouge from near the summit. I've not done any of those but I'd like to try one or two of the easier ones. Much easier is the big route from the Grand Col around the back of the Aiguille Rouge to Villaroger (the steep couloirs join it). You just have a short, gentle walk from the to of the Grand Col lift up to the Col itself. Better skiers use this to finish the Tarrentaise day-tour that starts from Tignes. You have to have a guide for all this - not just because of the avalanche dangers and difficult route finding but because the back of the Aiguille Rouge is a National Park with restrictions on skiing.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

snowball,
Thanks, it looks fantastic. I'm off to LA this Saturday, although judging by the webcams and forecast, I won't be able to see those couloirs from Pre St Esprit, and in any case, I suspect the snowpack will be too unstable to ski them. If the sun comes, out, I'll take the slowest lift in LA to try to spy them. We'll be lucky if comborciere and varet are open, let alone your couloir. Have you used the Vamos Tarentaise ski touring guide book?

A snowHead

A snowHead

snowball, I have done Couloir Valdez off the Aig Rouge which would be right up your street, I reckon, although the ridge walk to get to it has its moments!

hope offpisteskiing doesn't mind me posting his picture - I am the model Wink

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Arno, Looks great. I only hope the conditions will be suitable next week...

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Arno, nice! Looks like the bit you can't see might be steeper?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

snowball, probably getting on for 45degrees for 50m or so at the choke (which you can see), then it opens out and gradually mellows out

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With due respect to all the others on this you either (1) get a guide or (ii) do the fluffy creatures/delicate flowers course the Park Rangers run before you do any of those rotes. The area is National Park and anyone caught back there without (i) or (ii) is liable to a hefty fine. There are signs and warnings all over the place so ignorance is no excuse. Unless you are pretty comfortable in the back country I would use a guide initially. If you are planning multiple day trips over the top then do the fluffy bunny course asap when you get there and use guides until you pass the course. Be warned - the Grand Col route has lift guys who are aware of the rules and I've seen them chase people who start to stray in the direction of the gap in the ridge. I think there is a policy to limit the traffic in that area as much as possible as there are various endangered plant species back there.

One warm up route that I think does not require (i) or (ii) is a run off Arcabulle. Instead of going left (Grand Col) or right (Les Arcs1600/1800) you go straight ahead past the ice grotto and the avalance training patch. If you keep high-ish and to the right you can join up with the lifts below the liason with La Plagne. It's pretty tame but you can get some really nice powder runs in as hardly anyone goes down there.

Anyway - I'm with Chamcham, I don't think the pack is going to be stable enough yet, If it is, I'm going off the back of Bellecote in Jan this year then I want to do that Grand Col route. I'm working my way up to getting across to Tignes La Lac, backcountry style from Gand Col.

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RattytheSnowRat, good point. I was with an instructor at the time that photo was taken

After all it is free

... routes. (and I meant the ones off the back of the needle, the ones near Pres St Esprit are in bounds - I've done them - DON'T do them if it's icy {mumbles to himself and wimpers})

Arno, what planks/boots were you using for that little run?

RattytheSnowRat, i think it would have been some Garmont Shamans and Dynastar Legend Pros (original version - this was a few years back)

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Nice. Looks like a good day.

Whilst cruising some piste maps for this thread I just realised there is a bit of La Plagne I have never visted - Champagny-en-Vanoise - which looks like it has a host of off-pisty bits. I shall be going there also even if it looks a bit low (I usually head straight for the glacier which is why I assume I have missed it previously).

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I'm still in normal downhill boots - I'll go for Garmonts next time I'm boot shopping.

PS, yes I mentioned the National Park restrictions above.

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snowball, not sure the current Garmonts match up to their models from a couple of years ago. At the time, the Shoguns were quite unusual - proper stiff close fitting alpine boot with vibram sole. Plenty of mfrs offer something like that now

You know it makes sense.

Arno, said 45º on the bit just out of sight so this should be 40º, not 50. Some of the gullies around there are 50º, though. Perhaps I might once have considered them but not now, unless it were a short section and not too extremely exposed.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Am out next week and looks like another dump to set in.. With avy risk now being 2/3... any thoughts on the base? Broke my leg last year skiing off-piste on a poor base so am hoping to avoid that!

A snowHead

snowball, yup - most of it was 35-40 (probably closer to the latter) degrees IIRC - required a bit of care given that the conditions were carveable dusty hardpack. In powder it would be an absolute hoot

A snowHead

Timmaah,
It's not so much the poor base, I should think by now there'll be plenty of base above 2000m. It's more the fact that there's been a big snowfall on bare ground, with no repeated freeze thaw cycle to stabilise the snow. Personally, I won't be skiing anything steep off piste (or anything downhill from anything steep) until the snow pack stabilises. Sad

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bitoffluff, If you like to ski off piste and have all the safety gear, send me a PM and we could meet up for an easy ski if you are around when I get back. But as rob@rar, says, you need to be aware of the conditions right now as it is very unstable. Think before skiing anything that is even a little steep Puzzled

Hi Arno and snowball, not sure I like you sharing details of some of my favourite routes like this. Remember folks, if you are thinking of doing these type of routes, take a guide do not just try and follow the routes mentioned in 'the book!' on your own unless you really know where you are going Sad

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

snowcrazy, wink

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snowcrazy, m8, I've tracked 'blind' across way worse than that - at night (admittedly {mumble} years ago)! I will do the fluffy bunny course but half the fun is working out routes. As said above (and I am sure its been done many times before), I want to do the 'join up' run between Les Arcs and Tignes. I gather it makes more sense from La Plagne but there's something really tempting about that notch above Grand Coll .... but I need to get a whole lot fitter first!!

Timmaah, looking at the prior snow fall profile and the list of people who seem to be getting taken out further up the valley and elsewhere (RIP) I'd be REALLY careful about risking it at the moment, (especially in a wheelchair, powered or not). If a guide won't take you ......

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Cheers for feedback guys, will see what guides views are in resort and take it from there. Don't quite get the wheelchair remark though Puzzled

After all it is free

snowcrazy, Very Happy

Well, I did say about needing a guide.

snowcrazy was referring to the Les Cles de Paradiski book of off-piste, which is more a coffee table book than one you could put in a backpack.

snowball, hi hope you have a great season. Give me a bell if you are over this way during the season, be fun to have another ski with you. I know you were referring to that book, but the nickname over here for it is 'the death book' as some seasonnaires have been known to photocopy the pages then try to find the routes. The problem being I have been shown the pages in the bar and asked how to find some routes. I declined getting involved. Most of the youngsters do not carry any safety gear that i have met. Quote one last season. 'I do not need that stuff, I ride to fast and it will not happen to me!' Evil or Very Mad

Timmaah, If you want a really good guide, check out Christian at the Guides office in Arc 1800. He really knows his stuff and do not let his age fall you, he will ski you into the ground if you tell him you want to be pushed. Toofy Grin

Have fun!!

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Timmaah, assumed you named yourself after a character in 'South Park'

snowball, there's at least one other guide out there covering those routes written by a hard core guide for hard core peeps - Gotti, 'VANOISE - TARENTAISE SKI TOURS' . I am however starting to think there's some sort of conspiracy going on - almost every ski guide book I want to buy is out of print and the publishers - English and French - are refusing to talk to me about why.

Help!!

les arc off piste -guide or lessons

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