 Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Fenfilly wrote: |
| Every skier was a beginner once, and every skier should be given technically excellent lessons. It's their choice whether or not to carry on with them to a certain level. It's not the instructor's place to decide what level of instruction that person 'deserves'. |
Absolutely every instructor should give 100%. However not ever skier wants/needs technical lessons, that doesn't work for some folk, whereas it does for others. |
If I may be so brave as to add my twopenneth..........
My take at the moment (having just a glimpse into Beginners/low level novice lessons at Hemel) I agree with both the above quotes.
One consideration may be the amount of time a Learner is happy/motivated to spend on each stage in the learning process, ie. you can stay on the nursery slope for several lessons perfecting the snow plough, stance and developing the quality of their performance or you can deliver the same content over a shorter time and get them out on the main slope.
The majority of learners needs to feel a sense of achievement and getting onto the main slope is often seen by them as significant. Often they are along for a lesson or two prior to a holiday & have little intention of long term skiing development.
Obviously 100% effort should be delivered by any Instructor, 100% of what is the question. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can agree on the above from the punters perspective too.
We have a large group that goes skiing together once a year.
Two or three have lessons together every morning; their priority is to be shown and taken down some "nice" green and blue runs with a few stops for coffee. They aren't bothered about improving at all, but feel safer skiing with an instructor. They tend not to ski in the afternoon.
Some never have lessons, can ski down reds & bumpless blacks, but aren't bothered about improvement.
The younger end have lessons infrequently now, but will get bored very quickly if the lesson is too technical for too long; they want to jump off things and be shown basic freestyle tricks.
There's then a couple of us who want a lesson from an instructor who also acts as a guide and imparts some mountain craft skills. We would probably like a lesson that is just technical as we all want to improve, but would try and veto that if it was snowing. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Fenfilly wrote: |
| Every skier was a beginner once, and every skier should be given technically excellent lessons. It's their choice whether or not to carry on with them to a certain level. It's not the instructor's place to decide what level of instruction that person 'deserves'. |
Absolutely every instructor should give 100%. However not ever skier wants/needs technical lessons, that doesn't work for some folk, whereas it does for others. |
True enough, but I guess that what I'm driving at is that if it is what you want, it doesn't seem to be readily available from the average ski lessons in the UK, and I'm talking here about booking a lesson at a snowdome or on your local dry slope. (In my experience)
I'm also wondering if this is perhaps because most of the instructors only seem to be BASI L1. I don't mean that to be dismissive, but from what I've read that seems to be a kind of 'entry level' teaching qualification.
I see it in the equine industry all the time. The standard entry level qualification is a BHSAI which qualifies you as an 'Assistant Instructor'. However, on completion of this, most AI's then seem to go freelance and never bother to progress further. Consequently, once your riding has reached a certain standard, it is not that easy to get the right kind of technical instruction to push your progress further.
I'm relatively new to skiing, but I get the impression that the same happens in this sport as well.
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Fenfilly, for higher level instruction in a dome you need to look at the coaching groups run by insideoutskiing, snoworks, warren etc
Also some snow domes do specific training camps, moguls, race training etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think if you explained your needs when booking a private lesson in a snow dome they would be able to find someone to deliver what you're asking for. Although a lot of instructors might be L1 there are enough who have gone further to be able to provide the sort of lesson you describe.
As others have already mentioned, Inside Out are good at that sort of thing too - I think a lot of their regular clients (me included) have quite a technical approach to skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kieranm wrote: |
I think if you explained your needs when booking a private lesson in a snow dome they would be able to find someone to deliver what you're asking for. Although a lot of instructors might be L1 there are enough who have gone further to be able to provide the sort of lesson you describe.
As others have already mentioned, Inside Out are good at that sort of thing too - I think a lot of their regular clients (me included) have quite a technical approach to skiing. |
Woah! There are people who can afford private lessons in a snowdome? 
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Just ask for what you want - there are certainly experienced L2s and L3s (outside winter season) working as instructors at the snow domes and there is some adult group lessons.
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Fenfilly, agreed. It was over 100 beer tokens last time I checked.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| Fenfilly, agreed. It was over 100 beer tokens last time I checked. |
Exactly!
Plus, when I have enquired, there haven't been any group lessons beyond the level 4 (what you have to pass to use the slope safely).
I'd love to do a course with an organisation like Inside Out at a snowdome, but for me that is out of reach financially, and in terms of time.
It seems that unless you join a race club, or train as an instructor etc. it is pretty hard for the intermediate skier, wanting to really work on their technique, to get affordable good quality lessons.
I'm not really moaning (well, maybe I am, a bit  ) . The point I'm making is that it seems to be a rather curious gap in the market.
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Fenfilly, As you mentioned us I am curious... Do you feel that our introductory full day clinic at Hemel with lift pass, equipment hire, coaching and video review is too expensive at £54? or our PreSeason coaching holiday in Tignes at £245 plus flights all in for three days on a Glacier is too much? Not sure what you mean by time , commuting distance ? If so why not practice at a local dry slope?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fenfilly, FWIW, I have never felt that any of my time spent with Inside Out was anything other than exceptionally good value for money. And it's value for money which counts, not the cost per se.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Pedantica, +1 Fenfilly, The Inside Out prices compare very favourably with the cost of, for example, group lessons with a British ski school in the Alps - BASS Morzine for example, £153 - 183 for 7.5 hours just for tuition. Lift pass on top.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Fenfilly, As you mentioned us I am curious... Do you feel that our introductory full day clinic at Hemel with lift pass, equipment hire, coaching and video review is too expensive at £54? or our PreSeason coaching holiday in Tignes at £245 plus flights all in for three days on a Glacier is too much? Not sure what you mean by time , commuting distance ? If so why not practice at a local dry slope? |
Woah! People! Keep your hair on! I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm sure your courses are very good value indeed. I can't get down to Hemel, nor can I disappear off to Tignes, all our ski trips are family holidays.
I do practise at my local dry slope regularly, and I used to ski at MK snowdome once a week with my eldest son. Unfortunately skiing at MK has simply become too time consuming considering the commute for us, so the local dry slope has become the only option. However, they only do either beginner classes, or private lessons, although the cost of a private lesson is definitely more affordable there!
That being said, I did check the MK site today, and it seems they have started to offer regular group lessons for more advanced skiers, which seems to plug the gap in the market that I was talking about. I just wish they had started doing it last year! It is an interesting development, and at £27.99, a very reasonable price.
Pedantica, yes, value for money is vitally important, but if you can't afford the cost in the first place, that is largely irrelevant!
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You know it makes sense.
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Fenfilly,
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Keep your hair on! I'm not attacking anyone here
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I can't see anyone accusing you of attacking them. 
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if you can't afford the cost in the first place, that is largely irrelevant!
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Indeed. I try to spread my Hemel lessons throughout the summer months, and fairly sparingly at that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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well put together video dude, can see the transformation over the seasons happening brilliantly 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hemel sat is it
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Had an interesting Free "Taster Session" at Hemel on Saturday with New Generation.
It was really for folks considering or interested in BASIGap courses. I just went along to be nosey 
If anyone's interested they are doing another in June.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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speed098, I'm booked onto the 28th June one at Hemel, I wasn't sure which date/s I could make so booked a place on both.
They were really accommodating and I'm sure would welcome all comers onto the 2hr session, whether it's BASIGap or plain instruction.
The guy at Hemel on Sat (Barney) was a nice guy, loads of experience and you get an action plan/written feedback on possible ways forward and what to work on if you aspire to take an Instructor course or for personal performance.
My motto: if it's free I'll have two 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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franzClammer, thanks for the pointer. I've been shopping around for BASI L2 courses, so the taster session will be helpful. I'll book on the 28th June Saturday morning session at Hemel Hempstead.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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franzClammer, @ 7min you stacked and recovered in one smooth movement, beautiful to see the progression from skiing just in your head at the beginning to having your whole body involved in the activity at the end. Great job and a treat to watch . . . as always it's all about balance and relaxation
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, Cheers mate
Good to hear from you again. Hope life's treating you well 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kieranm, Barney the guy from NewGen running them isn't a Trainer but an experienced ISTD...be good to get his input. I have been in Tignes staying at the same chalet as their mini Gap people and personally I dont think it is a great venue for it as there is little scope for bumps training that time of year. Also not sure you need that much training going into your L2, be better to get specific training as per your L1 report. The L2 mini Gap may be a bit broad for you...
franzClammer, Kinda surprised NewGen will allow you two bites at the same Free Taster session..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, yeh, but if there's the chance of a punter spending £8.5k on a Gap course, (not in my case) they'd be crazy not to let prospectives have a 2nd viewing 'as it were'. As you saw the session was hardly over-subscribed with only 3 of us on it.
So far they've presented as quite a warm/human company with an inclusive feel about them. Probly due to looking after Gap teens etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, completely agree with your assessment. I'm not really in the market for the mini-Gap, fun though it would be, as I have neither the time nor the money, and as you point out it's not really necessary. But as I'll likely be there that day anyway getting some hours logged I'd be daft not to get NewGen's input, and as I'm shopping around for a BASI L2 course it would be a good opportunity to talk to them about what they can offer there.
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kieranm, yup good idea.. fyi I did my L1 and L2 with NewGen courchevel and had a great experience. They are allowed to organise and run their own BASI courses along with a few other bigger brit schools.. I did one of their taster sessions at MK back in the day, fun but a bit nerve wracking
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kieranm, I think another BASI Approved provider is Snoworks for L2 etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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List of BASI business partners here. If you are looking to do just the 2-week L2 course I don't think it matters who you book with, direct with BASI or with an approved business partner. The course will be the same no matter which organisation you book with.
If you are looking for training to work towards L2, the business partners offer that (although it seems mostly in structured "Gap course" type experiences), but there are other ski schools that offer good technical training.
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| Quote: |
If you are looking to do just the 2-week L2 course I don't think it matters who you book with
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That's the conclusion I was coming to, but good to know, thanks Rob.
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FAQ
) But too far for me to travel for the day will have to keep an eye out for anything similar at CFe or Castleford.
).
