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Sexy ski but too much for me?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I am after a new set of skis (a case of want rather than need I think). I am 29yrs, 5'11" and about 12st. I have 8 weeks skiing experience over the past 2 years and would consider myself an intermediate (after all, doesn't everyone?) I'd actually say 'adventurous' or 'confident' intermediate - I can ski reds with a modicum of style (or so I think) and get down all blacks fine. I love bumps and powder (but not been in anything much over thigh-deep). Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I feel I've improved quickly and am continually improving and really starting to get the feel for speed. I currently have Atomic R9's which are fine but quite frankly I'm bored and want something a little more exciting (still working on a better reason to justify that one, to myself and the missus).

Anyway, I want a freeride ski that will take me through the powder and crud as well as give me a blast on piste and in the bumps.

Don't know if this makes me sound arrogant or 'above' myself but I want something that will make me work hard and reward and make me all the better for it, if you know what I mean (it's early).

I quite fancy the Legend 8000's. But what looks so damn sexy are the Stormrider XL's. I have read various reviews on these and the general impression is that they are fast and rewarding when skied hard, but also seem generally to be recommended for experts only. I also understand that the 2006 model is a (little) softer. My main question is, will the Stormriders be too much for me or will they in fact help me improve. I know there are some posters here who use them (JT?) but don't know your ability levels. Do you think I should go for them? (No, I probably won't get to demo them but what the hell). I will try to demo the 8000's at MK and maybe some others that EB have (do they have any in the Metron range this year?), but for some reason am taken by the Stormriders even before trying them.

Please people, tell me your thoughts, particularly you Stormrider users out there.
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Quote:

I want something that will make me work hard and reward and make me all the better for it, if you know what I mean


conor, personally I don't that sounds arrogant at all. A most commendable attitude!! I haven't skied the Stormriders, although I think they look/sound/ get talked about pretty well. Don't take my word for it but my opinion is...

* if you are prepared to work a bit harder and
* if the skis really are a bit more demanding (always a bit doubtful about that myself and I have skied on some very demanding bits of kit, usually due to abysmal kit condition!)
* that possible outcomes might include having trickier hangover days and falling down a bit more frequently
* but that It doesn't sound as though those outcomes would trouble you unduly provided you could see the general state of affairs improving with time and practise

Then I'd be tempted to go for them. But I really, really wouldn't shell out £X00 myself on anything I hadn't tried. Buy in resort. Rent/test from someone with a really good range. It'll be worth it in the end.
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conor, I would say that i am of a similar level to you and i got some Stormriders last season and WOW what a difference (i had volkl 4*) they made to my skiing and definatley something to grow into. i donk know about this seasons ones being softer but you could maybe get some good deals on last seasons
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conor, Buy the Stormriders. Then get some lessons to ensure you use them correctly wink
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conor,

Not sure! I had read about them and thought about the stiffness element and could I handle them etc. I don't know what ability level I am, I just know what I can do. If I look on SNR I'm between an 8 and a 9. but I go anywhere on the hill, the steeper the better.

I think I recall Ise saying he talked to Stockli and that they were the same ski for 2006 but different graphics. He may be on later to clarify this.

The ski itself is what I call an all-rounder, and by that I mean it will perform anywhere, not make do or do ok, it will perform.
I take it on steeps where you need to get it round quick and short, it provides a solid base here and a firm landing. I feel, in retrospect it needs just a tad more effort to float but that is a minor minor technique adjustment as it is a firm ski. I didn't have any trouble in new snow as soon as I realised this and before that I just needed some time to adjust to a new ski. Nothing major going on here.

Firmess in a ski to me means it is more unforgiving, The ski goes were you put it and you had better be sure you want to put it there or it can bite. I didn't have any problem with this but this is where you may need to make a compromise. And the firmess is what sets it apart from other skis in its category, it really will hold an edge, if it doesn't, it isn't the ski! This really is IMV, a one quiver ski.

Givien your enthusiasm and your age you may find this ski will need pushing from what you may be used to. If you can't get on it, try a Recon, B2 and 8000. If you can ski them well enough then just expect the XL to have more bite/edge on hard pack - which is where you want it, of course. This again wil be helped by the supposed firmness of the ski.

You age and hopefully fitness will be in your favour, your 8 week technique may not. Forgive me but I haven't seen you ski. A modicum of style down a red may not be so good also. You need to be ON these skis...and on any other ski in this level, for that matter. If you can handle other so called expert skis this shouldn't be a bridge too far. You can take these levels with a pinch of salt but the one thing that I would say distinguishes the levels is forgiveness. If I had to guess, I would say it is borderline, but at least your skiing progress looks like it is heading upwards.

After all said and done, I don't know..!!
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JT, well said ^
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conor, My recommended test list for you would be:

Metron M11 in 162cm, although it's worth trying the b5 as it has a higher top end performance envelope
Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous or even the Top Fuel - EB's are stocking the Nitrous & I know the Castleford store has demo skis. I skied it last week & was very impressed & thought it close to the M11. Still prefer my b5's though but would like to try the Top Fuel.
Stormrider XL
Legend 8000
Zenith z9

If your're after a 'rewarding' ride as you say then I think you'll find the Recon & the B2 too damp & lifeless.

If you can make it to Casteflord you're very welcome to try my b5's & we could probably get Rockyrobin to stop by with his M11's.

There is of course the obvious alternative - simply buy the ones that match your boots wink
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JT wrote:


I think I recall Ise saying he talked to Stockli and that they were the same ski for 2006 but different graphics. He may be on later to clarify this.
!


So they said, I may try them out over the next month or so. I see from some stuff they've sent the dimensions are unaltered but they're quoting marginal increases in the turn radius, about 30cm consistently over the lengths.
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ise,

I have been onto Epic and the like and they say that the newer XL is slighty softer which I don't think I like the sound of.
Others say there is no discernable difference.

Looks like I will have to demo them again, which I can think of worst punishments..!!
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Interesting comments everyone. I obviously have plenty of time to make a decision (off to Winter Park Jan 21st) and testing /buying in resort is another option open to me. I think I could work the Stormrider on piste with the requisite effort but not sure if it would hinder rather than help my powder skiing, which I am just getting into. mistermouse, you sound of similar experience to me and this ski seems to work for you. How did you find it in powder and bumps?

I was in S&R yesterday. They had B3's and when I asked if they would be stocking B2's the sales assistant didn't know and had to check the catalogue. Didn't bother asking his thoughts about the Stormrider after that. (Thank god for sites like this and Epic because I am rapidly losing confidence in these shops to give informed advice).

Also went to EB. They are not actually stocking the Legend 8000 (don't ask me why), just the 8800 and 4800. They have the Hot Rod Nitrous which looks interesting (looks similar to the the Metrons in sidecut).

Anyway, I'm going to MK and I am going to try the B2's, Hot Rod Nitrous and maybe the Recons (or Legend 4800 as I want to try some Dynastars). I'll see how I feel after that. A lot of people on this site are talking about the Hot Rod Top Fuel. I think it has the same dimensions as the Nitrous and was beginning to wonder if it was the same ski with a different name accross the pond? (WTFH can you advise?)
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JT wrote:
ise,

I have been onto Epic and the like and they say that the newer XL is slighty softer which I don't think I like the sound of.
Others say there is no discernable difference.

Looks like I will have to demo them again, which I can think of worst punishments..!!


The turn radius alteration suggests to me there's a slight increase in flex but it must be fairly small. You can't feel it flexing the ski in the store and it's worth pointing out they're not a production line ski so the flex will vary between pairs anyway. When you buy direct from Stöckli it involves flexing 30 or 40 pairs till you find the pair you want. The sponsored skiers do it at the factory and get the flex patterns dialled up and down as the ski is made.

Stöckli still had the 05 XL in stock last time I was in a store so it'll be available for anyone that goes to a real store.

I don't know how the export models work anyway, or even if they're made at the same place.
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ise,
Quote:

When you buy direct from Stöckli it involves flexing 30 or 40 pairs till you find the pair you want.

I had always understood that this "hand flexing" of a ski was a bit of myth and lore. How on earth can you tell how a ski will perform by bending it with your hand Confused
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You need to ski a few pairs at different flex patterns to find the flex you like, then identify something close to it in the store. The parameters are fairly clear, we know how softer flexing skis behave compared to those with less flex.
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You know it makes sense.
conor wrote:
A lot of people on this site are talking about the Hot Rod Top Fuel. I think it has the same dimensions as the Nitrous and was beginning to wonder if it was the same ski with a different name accross the pond?


It's not the same ski. Same dims yes but the Top Fuel is 'more' ski. Just like the b5 is the same dims as the M11 but it's still 'more' ski.

Can recommend the independant tests on Pete Keelty's site http:www.realskiers.com

You can view the overall comments but if you subcribe to the site (only $20 for the year & excellent value for any gearHead) you can access far more detailed info including performance category scoring etc.
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conor, to be honest i havn't had the chance to try them in decent powder yet so i cant really say but on the bumps i found them fine. bumps are where i really need to improve so yet again i'm not best to qualified to give you a rating of them, all i can say is that they make me feel very confident on them and that mistakes are my fault and not the skis. i honestly dont think you would regret getting a pair
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mistermouse,

I used them in new fresh snow, 20 cms of so and on the icy home runs. I didn't use them on any dedicated bump runs unless you count the top of the Laub at the steepest part. No problem here. I wouldn't tout it as a bump run ski as such but 174-ish keeps it manageable. I'm 6ft plus and 13st and it works all over for me and the icing on the cake is when you hit ice and it sticks..!!

I've tried others and whilst they have good and less good points, trying to get a ski to hold ice and float as well as the XL does is, a very tricky equation to solve. So i would prefer to keep the stiffness for this reason.

ise, snowbunny,

It is makes sense now, hand-made skis and lots of guys flexing the skis in the shop. It was most unlike a typical ski buying exeperience as far as I have been concerned. I will be going back to the same (large) shop and will look into this more. Hopefuly, I'll just pick a stiffer one. I am going to have fun demo'ing these all over again. I have a preference at this time for a 2005 model.
I'll consider buying x-rental if I like the ski enough. But then again, the 2006 might be even more the business. Good times..!!
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JT, I still think that this hand flexing lark is a bit iffy. Especially as the differences are going to be small between each pair. On top of that, according to ise, if you go to the factory, where there's lots, fine. You, however, may only find a few pairs in the right length at each stockist. Additionally, ise, is saying that he's not sure if the export models are even the same, so who knows UK skier fodder may all be identical wink
I have been in plenty of ski shops where " potential buyers" have been flexing the skis off the racks, and I just want to say "it's a ski-see it bends" Mad And beyond that they really have little idea rolling eyes
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snowbunny,

I wouldn't think the flex pattern could differ too much as it would become a different ski but I can see the point about hand made skis and flex. I was actually in a Swiss Stockli shop and they did indeed have loads. I would still only buy then one I demo'd tho', I think.
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spyderjon, thanks for the offer re. your B5's and yes you are mentioning all the same skis that I was thinking about (apart from the Zenith which I know nothing about).

You say you tried the Nitrous. Tell me more, how did you find it? It certainly looks like a top ski and I will be giving it a try if MK have it to demo. I did get somewhat confused between that and the Top Fuel - the UK mags seem to refer to the Nitrous as THE Hot Rod ski and I would not have heard of the Top Fuels but for you fine people and our Epic comrades (where people seem to be raving about it like they were the B5, if I may be so brave? wink

Is the Top Fuel being stocked by any retailers in the UK?
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Quote:

i honestly dont think you would regret getting a pair


mistermouse, you are like the devil on one shoulder saying, "buy the Stormriders, go on, buy 'em" Twisted Evil

I may well do so.
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conor, You know you want to!! Twisted Evil (and they are more individual,i dont think that many people have them)
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conor wrote:
Is the Top Fuel being stocked by any retailers in the UK?


Apparently not by EB's. I track down the UK Nordica distributor & scrouge a demo of their rep through EB's at MK.
Afterall if you can't try 'em you can't buy 'em!

I think part of the problem in the UK is that retailers won't/can't stock all of the range so their purchasing dept pick what they think they'll sell the most of. This usually means they then don't stock the very high end skis as they have a limited market.
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conor,


Re Legends

I skied on the Legend4800 in Winter Park last Jan. I liked it.

This is a general all-round ski that handles most things. Good on the groomed, in the bumps (and WP has bumps like redheads have rfeckles) and fine in the boot-top powder we had during my stay. It's the little brother of the 8000, which is stiffer (and which the rental shop didn't have).

Either of these would definitely be worth demoing

The 8800 is a dedicated deep snow/backcountry ski, and as such may not be what you want.
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JT, I was in a Slush n Rubble branch today, so got my sticky paws on some Stormrider XL's. Naturally they only had one pair at each length, so no point in anyone checking the flex out wink . This years ski colour is really gloomy. The ski alone felt quite heavy, and it seems very wide midfoot. I would guess that being big and heavy will be an advantage for anyone buying a pair. wink
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snowbunny, what are you trying to say? i'm actually very svelte like
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mistermouse, How can I put this politely, I'm sure that you are in um.. proportion Laughing
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snowbunny,

I can see why that would be. However, I will demo them from a Stockli store in Switzerland - nothing but Stockli''s and go from there. I thought the 2006 version looked like a B2, all flames etc and the 2005 is blue and red which is decidely understated.
Although that graphic didn't grab you the ski itself did. All this talk of new XL's has got me confused. I think I will buy the next one I like..!!

The ski itself wouldn't be a fat. It is 76 at the waist, or certainly there or there abouts - wouldn't call that wide today. It doesn't perform heavy, the swing weight is just right and no worse to hike a bit than anything else. All I can say is that it felt a substantial ski and it did all the right things for me so I didn't notice the things you say.

I hope to test one in the next few weeks but even if I can't then it is still the benchmark ski and it will take a blinding ski to make me buy anything else. The only others in my must try are the b5 and the 8000 and i have a suspicion the 8000 will be a tad soft and suffer in the ice by comparison. The b5 will be 162 which is tiny for a 6 footer. I understand it may be the correct lenght and all that but 162...!!!!
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JT, Yes, I have just looked at the dimensions, and the XL is narrower on the waist and tail than the B2 (for example). I do think that you will be so much better off at a Stockli store in CH. Or buy a closeout 05 from Telemark Pyrenees online store. And the paint job, well lets just say that it appeared sober on the rack with lots of other brands, it's just my opinion wink And as for 162 being teeny... Laughing wink
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Quote:

WP has bumps like redheads have rfeckles


Acacia, like the analogy Very Happy. I'm off to WP in Jan for two weeks and I love the bumps!

Anway, I got myself to MK today. I tried the Apache Recons (in 174 I think) and the Hod Rod Nitrous (in 170). I wanted to give the new B2's a try as well but they haven't received the bindings yet apparently and so had no demos available.

The Recon, which was a very popular ski last year by all accounts, did nothing whatsoever for me. I don't know how else to describe it but dull and lifeless. Perhaps I was at fault somewhere, but the Recon and I just did not get on. It seemed to enjoy tanking it down the slope (with the limited space available), in long turns, but anything else it seemed reluctant. I got the feeling that this ski would not be good in moguls.

Then I stepped into the Nitrous. Soon as I got them on they just 'felt' right (is that possible?). First run down and they had me smiling. Second time I was grinning. Third time.....never mind Toofy Grin Suffice to say I didn't want to give them back. They felt SO easy edge to edge and just seemed to encourage me to go faster and faster. There was some ice on the slope and I made a point of going for it. No problems. It was also good in very short turns, although I could almost hear it screaming, "this is boring, lets go faster!" This ski seems perfect for me (sorry Stormriders).

Will it be good in the bumps of Mary Jane? It'll have to be, because I think I'm getting a pair. (Atomic R9's are currently weeping in the corner).
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conor wrote:
The Recon, which was a very popular ski last year by all accounts, did nothing whatsoever for me. I don't know how else to describe it but dull and lifeless.


Told ya Cool .

Good to hear you like the Nitrous. Seems like you like the same kind of ski as me. Test the latest B2 if you can but if you feel like that about the Nitrous you won't be impresed with the B2 either.

Before you buy the Nitrous see if EB's can get you a Top Fuel to demo. You gotta try the b5 as well wink.
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The new 2005/06 B2's won the Daily Mail freeride ski test - they didn't test the Stormriders though Sad

I got my hands on some Stormrider XLs in the S&R sale in April - £330 all in with Salomon 912ti bindings, which I thought was a good deal. The downside is they've just lived in the loft since and I can't wait to get on them - bit nervous about using them in bumps though as I've gone from 170 spaghetti (Salomon Scream8 Pilots) to 174 iron bars.

Cheers

BB

PS I think the XL graphics for this year are better than last year - mine look awful in that blue/red/white flame thing.

Shocked
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bucking bronco,
Quote:

PS I think the XL graphics for this year are better than last year - mine look awful in that blue/red/white flame thing.

It's good that we all have different tastes, personally I found the new XL paint job a bit sober!

ise, Are you off to buy the new season's XL now? wink
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bucking bronco,

Don't worry about the graphics, they are so cool they don't need a fancy paint job.

And after the Salomons you will just love them, I'm sure
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JT,
Quote:

Don't worry about the graphics

If you buy a pair of last seasons, you won't have to either Very Happy
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snowbunny,

I'm testing in few weeks
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JT, I'm sooo envious, do try and stay objective wink Very Happy
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I really like last years graphics and with matching bindings they look sooo cool (all i've got to do is learn to ski)
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conor,

I used to ski Atomic 9.22 at 180cm (forerunner of the R9) and bought Stormrider XLs at the end of the 2003/4 season (identical to last year's - the blue/red flames). I'm more experienced than you and guess I ski at a somewhat higher level - been skiing for 20 years, worked a season, work hard at my technique, feel confident in pretty much all conditions and have a range of tactics/techniques to apply. Still I'm no rockstar and I should be able to give you a comparison. I'm 5'9 and 13 stone with fairly powerful legs. I ski the Stocklis at 174 and that's plenty.

I did test the skis before buying - you must do this with the Stormriders.

I'll admit to being a little intimidated when I strapped them on given the hype. In use they were fabulous, I'll try to summarise the differences with the 9.22s (which I loved) and what I think it takes to enjoy them:

1. carving on hard pack
Very significant improvement in edge grip. If you "stack" your outside half and ride the edge you will grip in just about any conditions - gave me much more confidence than the Atomics. Note that despite the stiffness (and they are very stiff), I seemed to be able to bend them into some very tight carves - may be just because of the confidence they gave me to get very high edge angles and pressure hard. Questions for you to consider - How much angulation do you get? How conscious are you of setting the outside leg and then progressively softening it to release the carve and crossover? If your carving technique is solid you'll enjoy them on piste. A lot.

2. short swings/moguls
Bit old-school but I still like to ski these turns at times. The stiffness of the stocklis means that I have to be a bit more precise and dynamic. Atomics (perhaps partly due to wear) were rather soft and this made them quite fluid edge-to-edge. That said, when you are on steep, off-piste hardpack the stocklis give amazing rebound and edge grip/finishing carve - loads of fun and control. In the bumps, I wouldn't say that big, burly (and to my mind) relatively fat skis were optimal! I tend use a bit more carve in the bumps than I would have done on the atomics. Questions for you - how dynamic are you in shortswings (hip/knee/ankle flexion/extension)?

3. powder
I used to enjoy powder on skinny 200cm slalom skis so the Atomics just made things more fun. I'm not sure that the Stocklis are any better in real powder - they have a little more surface area and are more floaty but I rather like 3-d powder skiing. Again, I'm being a bit old-school but I don't really understand why I'd want anything fatter. By the way, do you really mean you've skiied thigh deep powder? In the years that I've been skiing I never been in anything much more than knee depth - of course when it's light and knee deep it floats up above your waist when you are moving!

4. crud
This (and funnily enough en-piste carving) is where the improvements were most marked. The stocklis just chop through crud fast and smooth. It's EASIER (not just BETTER) to ski them in the crud than the Atomics

5. Criticisms
In comparison to the atomics they are fairly heavy (2 steel plates give them the stiffness and also give them weight!). Also, I dont particularly enjoy the stiff tails when I'm landing jumps (and I don't really spent much time airbourne). That's it.

All in all, I'd say this - given your attitude, I think you are right to look for a ski that will stretch you a bit. That said, you want one that will really respond when you ski to your ability (i.e., pats you on the back and encourages you when you get right)- not one that is a real struggle. I just don't know where the stocklis fit for you. This is why you need to test. I'd suggest giving yourself a couple of days on the atomics to acclimatise then take the stocklis out for a day. If the stocklis don't feel better and are not more FUN than the Atomics then spent some money on private lessons (instructor to 1 or 2 of you) instead.

Hope that helps,

Jed
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Jed

Nice post mate - confirmed my suspicions re bumps but surprised me that they aren't that much better in powder.


Mistermouse

Matching bindings? You mean they made some in red/white/blue?



Cheers

BB
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bucking bronco, close , they are red and white and i think look great (which is what its all about wink )
they are marker comp14

jedster, helpful comments. I wouldn't say it was 'powder' but i have been through waist deep snow, most odd when you stop and it looks like people are cut in half.
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