 Poster: A snowHead
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Getting back on skis seems not-so-far away. I'm new to this and fear I may have forgotten everything I may have learnt ( or have subsequently convinced myself that I learnt).
Many say it's like riding a bike, you never forget. I fell off my bike this summer.
So, what are the routines .. and more radically, the important ones that you focus on in order to get you back to your previous level of incompetence?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For me it just seems to happen without any trying. Takes a morning's skiing until I feel comfortable, and probably a full day until I'm more or less back to where I was. A couple of hours at your local dry/indoor slope might help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar.org.uk, South of France doesn't seem to do dry/artificial snow places. Not that I've looked 
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eEvans, It usually takes me half a day to find my ski legs, every year I think Oh No i forgot how to ski but it always comes back, by day two I am back to normal. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eEvans, we only started ski-ing a few years ago and did worry about this, but the biking analogy is a good one. Returning to the slopes I find a can still ski at the level of incompetence that I left them 
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Ian Hopkinson, Yes , you are right. I am a tad worried. Looks like I may have to continue falling over a lot ;my dreams of improving through inactivity being somewhat forlorn !
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ski, Thanks .. what I was looking for ! However if I could do the first 4 'Try' items on your list I would consider myself an expert 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eEvans, I find being fairly fit, especially leg strength, really helps to get back into it. I reckon I have stopped thinking about what I am or should be doing after an hour or two, which to my simplistic mind says I am back in the groove.
CP
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eEvans, The good thing about those is you can practise them by yourself. Just trying (even if you don't suceed) will help 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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eEvans, and - have some lessons ! 
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eEvans, try getting some instructional videos. I used to find that watching ski vids over the summer helped me improve even while not doing it myself.
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You know it makes sense.
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ski, That's about the only thing I do ! Lessons - I mean.
Just feel I should be trying to get back to where I was before being told I'm useless (again) and re-learning it all ! Having said that I swear that having lessons was the best thing I ever did ....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, Mmmh, hadn't thought of that ... if I buy enough I could be Bode Miller next time I go on the slopes  Sounds like a good idea - at least to remind myself what I should be attempting to achieve.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Just feel I should be trying to get back to where I was before being told I'm useless (again) and re-learning it all ! Having said that I swear that having lessons was the best thing I ever did ....
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I very often get folks for hour long private lessons, who haven't skied for several months.... they'd be a lot better off doing some free skiing first.......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eEvans, if you don't get indoor slopes near you, how about trying some of ski's exercises in your living room  .
I am actually being mostly serious here - although I've not thought about it much before! You can't really do much about dynamic balance (responding to what the ski/piste does to you), but you may be able to work on your own balance and coordination in skis and knee/hip mobility. Stand on the carpet in skis and boots and jump up and down, then progress to running on the spot - all the time working on ski's "points to look for" 1-4. Also stand on one leg for as long as you can without falling over or moving the foot (that would really probably help in skis) - while still with bent knee as if skiing on one foot, and keeping airborne ski parallel with ski on floor, or even crossing it slightly as in a javelin - then press up and down (still on one foot). Finally get it really dynamic by jumping from foot to foot, touching the other foot down before jumping back (i.e. stand-on-left, jump-from-leftfoot-to-rightfoot, touch left foot to floor momentarily, jump-from-right-foot-to-left, touch right foot to floor, repeat until in need of G'n'T/beer). You may also try progressively deepening the 'down' until the jumps become squats. I remember you saying you had dodgy knees, so I'm not sure whether this would be good or bad, but I've found that doing some running this year, far from wrecking mine has actually improved them as the muscles have built up and stabilised them (although I'm currently off that having damaged myself - on a dry-slope  ).
Once you've got all that sussed, look at isolating upper and lower body activity by e.g. passing a baton (or the wife's rolling pin, assuming it's not implanted in your head by then ) around your body, over your shoulders or between your legs - while still doing the jogging/jumping stuff!
These are mostly exercises that we've done on the dry slope while skiing, but I'm sure they'd be useful just while stationary.
I also remember ski recommending work on a balance board - stand on a bit of board that's balanced on a football (round or oval to taste!).
Also ride a (push-)bike as much as possible.
Find some grass-skis?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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eEvans,
Get as fit as you can, as skiing is about muscle memory and good fit muscles will do what you want to do better.
Don't take on too much on the first day, leave some in the tank for the next day. If you have only skied a few weeks, sking is pretty exhausting because you aren't as economcal as you might be. Expect to take one step back and try to make two forward in the holiday. Don't try to improve too much too soon.
I think visual reference is very good so watch those videos, get in your mind the good body position and pick confidence building terrain as opposed to tougher stuff because you WILL be rusty. As you ski more you takle less time to get back into it, so in the early days it may take 2-3 days to get back to where you thought you were.
If training do strenght and balance exercises
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GrahamN, JT, I do wish everyone wouldn't recommend fitness training. The unfortunate thing is I know you are right , so it's back on those bikes ( GrahamN, yes you are right, I try and avoid any impact sports now) and the dreaded 'lunges' .. and I agree as you get older 'weaker' knees benefit significantly from strength training.
So fitness, visual stimulation, some specific 'on piste' focal points .. loads to do.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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and remember it's supposed to be fun, and a holiday, so don't give yourself a hard time. Chill! I find on uptight days, poor visibility etc, that some music is the greatest help to relaxing, and therefore skiing better, and getting less tired.
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eEvans,
A friend of mine has really bad knees, hardly any cartlidges at all, bow legs, no patella, all old football injuries, and walks very badly, he is now retired but active and skis.
He went to a physio and said he had a problem with a knee - hurt it snowboarding - and after he explained his knee histories,
she (the physio) said take a walk up and down the room so she could get a look at the problem. "Ah yes, she said, I can see the problems, but I think I can get you to walk better"
"B*gg*r that, he said, can you get me sking?" At which point the physio had to go and sit down..!!!
He will be at the PSB, hopefully
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eEvans, the vast majority of what I suggested there is not related to CV fitness (except the cycling - and that's as much knee/leg strengthening), but getting your muscles and mind to work together in sync in the kinds of postures you will need and movements you do on the slopes - and what fitness they do work on is in those muscle groups you will need for skiing. It was just those kinds of exercises - especially the one-legged ones - that really freed up my skiing recently (In my case, I've always been a bit stiff in the body, and have probably had a bit too much two-footed off-piste stuff recently).
And if you're feeling really masochistic, do them in front of a full length mirror, to check you body position's in balance - although possibly not just after having watched those instructional videos .
Incidentally, a very good (although highly opinionated) trainer was lecturing us last week about the fact that to properly carve a slalom course you need to be able to squat lift about 2.7 times your own body weight....on each leg individually . I suspect that's for a level several planets removed from my aspirations, but I guess I'm on for a leg strength training regime too!
I of course have no training in any variety of fitness instruction, and it could be all wrong, so I co-opt your sig for this thread .
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| JT wrote: |
A friend of mine has really bad knees,.
He went to a physio and said he had a problem with a knee - hurt it snowboarding -
she (the physio) "Ah yes, she said, I can see the problems, but I think I can get you to walk better"
"B*gg*r that, he said, can you get me sking?" |
And she said 'Of course .. but only if you promise not to go scraping the snow off the pistes on a board again"
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| He will be at the PSB, hopefully |
Ohh loads of war stories- although I think I walk OK! Having said that losing (a little) middle-age spread and getting back on a bike have performed miracles for me - unsure as to whether that is real or imagined.
I went to a new physio this April ( I was in a bit of pain after my first season). Being a kiwi I thought she might empathise with the original rugby injuries ( the days when they cut u and rehab was hell) and sympathise with my new-found skiing passion. One minute on my right knee and she was tutting, a minute later after my left knee and she suggested I could continue skiing but that I should pay up my health insurance ready for the reconstruction She did confess it was a joke !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, I had my first go last night - although without skis ! I'll pick it up in the gym when I next visit. The balance board idea seems excellent.
'Squat x 2.7 your own body weight on one leg ' -surely he's having a laugh. I challenge anyone on here to do that with free weights . Anyone saying they can is Alain Baxter in disguise Be interested in what Martin Bell can/could do .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eEvans,
In-line roller skating is a really great dryland crossover activity.
Get yourself a pair, (together with loads of body-armour/padding) and find a secluded car park where there aren't any accomplished 9-yr olds sneering at you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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eEvans,
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'Squat x 2.7 your own body weight on one leg
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I know the coach who said this. He would not have been having a laugh........................
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| ski wrote: |
'Squat x 2.7 your own body weight on one leg
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I know the coach who said this. He would not have been having a laugh........................[/quote]
Well I hope he's not afriend of yours , cos he obviously has no sense of humour.
To see how difficult it might be ( and to avoid any broken backs). Exceptionally fit : might go to their gym and set the leg press at the requisite weight , WITHOUT moving the safety stops try and do this with both legs, if you can move it , now try with one leg. If at this stage you are still able to move it , please apply to the British ski team ..
Seriously can anyone here do this ?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Acacia, yes and no. I could go on for hours about how majority of the biomechnics of good skating has very little application for good skiing (and some which are even counterproductive for skiing), but I'd hijack this thread. Suffice to say, if you want to be a good skater, then go skating. If you want a sport that closely mimics skiing, then go skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Those squats sound like a recipe to crush your discs so if anyone has back trouble - who hasn't - I wouldn't go anywhere near them
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Balance on one leg. Close eyes. Fall over. Repeat until you have strengthened the muscles in your lueg sufficiently.
Then do it all again, but balance on one leg and lower yourself slowly to the floor.
Wobble board is also excellent.
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GrahamN, I'm little (although perfectly formed, I'm informed) so have some sort of advantage I think. I can squat, err, 2x my body weight with both legs. I can quite easily HOLD that with one leg - maybe I should try harder?
THe point being, at the gravitational apex of a WC turn is it not the case that you are holding against 3g rather than extending out of and it's for an incredibly short time?
Interestingly, the Herminator does few and light weights but huge, I mean HUGE amounts of cycling. Like, 8 hours a day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry, I'm disrupting the thread again.
Go back to the videos, Kronenbourg and Krokies. If you watch "Blizzard of Ahs" often enough we'll have you cliff jumping at the PSB. Honest, it works!
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David Murdoch strong with the force he is . When I said about 2x (although I've actually no idea - as I've never actually been on one of those gym instruments of torture) the response was a definite "not enough".
I'll check with the others tonight for a concensus on what was actually said.
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[the hijack continues] Oh well, it appears the rest of the class (who didn't bunk off the 2nd half of the lecture) had actually mostly switched off by then, so there wasn't much consensus. Quite possibly the number quoted was for two legs, and the 1 leg value should be about 60% of that. The main point about fitness and strength was reinforced by a) his own times down a dry slope correlate pretty much linearly with the time he takes to run back up the slope and b) most WC racers' times actually get slower as they go through the season, as they spend too much skiing and not enough time training. David Murdoch's point about holding position rather than pushing out of it does seem a fair one - but I'm not quite sure how much the g's have dropped off by the time you then need to be preparing for the next turn, and a slalom racer's legs don't seem to be fixed in one position for very long at all - the point may be better made in the context of GS. The other point that strikes me about all this is that the G pulled on a turn will depend on the square of the velocity (F=v*v/r), so given that even a pretty good amateur is going to be say 60% as fast as a WC racer, they're only going to pull 1/3 the Gs the WC guy's going to pull.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eEvans, lots of good advice here. In a way, what you're asking is similar to what I asked here. Personally I don't have a set of drills yet (though am in the process of putting something together) but go skiing at MK on a semi-regular basis and in-line skate.
Manda, in-line skating is intuitively good for skiing and a quick google using a few different search terms indicates that at least in the lay person's domain the consensus remains in favour of it, and that professional skiers and sports scientists still recommend it.
There are many different turn types possible with in-line skates and the movements with biomechanics which are entirely dissimilar to skiing are unlikely to be any more detrimental than are running or cycling, the cardiovascular benefit notwithstanding. Depending on the terrain, the commoner movements are very similar to, well, skating, and translate very effectively to skating on nordic or alpine skis. Some other in-line skate turns are just like short carved turns, pedalling one-footed turns or accelerating turns. Whatever the biomechanical differences, they feel sufficiently similar to be likely to be of some help in training. Certainly, they are no more different from skiing than one skiing turn differs from another. It is said that repetitions of movements resembling but not identical to the ultimate ideal movement model can be detrimental but I believe this to be applicable only for things like rowing, road cycling, track running etc where there is little variation in the movement model.
If you feel this is way off mark, please feel free to enlighten me.
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The WC racers I have seen have thighs as wide as a lot of peoples waists.
There must be a compromise about all this, I mean, my friend had a gym and the instructor came 4th in the GB body building contest one year. He could be discribed as very fit but he was so muscle bound he couldn't walk, let alone run, half a mile. How fit is that...?
But, of course, skiing will benefit from general fitness
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