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Do you really need a hot shower after a day on the slopes?

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Do you really need a hot shower after a day on the slopes?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Now resolved: have received compensation from TO

AKA "should I sue the TO?"

So, We had a fairly expensive week in Zermatt earlier in the season with a mid to upper market TO. Property looked really good in the brochure - a new apartment furnished to a high standard. Only problem was, they hadn't got the boiler spec right so you couldn't get hot water for a bath/shower during the 5pm - 7pm peak demand period, apparently on account of the fact that it was also powering the in-house jacuzzi & Sauna.
Complained immediately to try to get something done, but had very poor response and, to the best of my knowledge the system wasn't fixed all week. No probs getting hot water in the mornings or at other times, just not when you need it after a hard day bashing pistes.
IMHO this is a pretty major failing to provide a holiday to the quality standards I feel I had a right to expect. Several letters to the TO once back home have failed to elicit any offer of compensation, so I'm now contemplating suing. My logic is that if you look at the various components that differentiate a high quality holiday from a poor one (I'm discounting snow conditions etc since these are outside TO control) then things like availability of hot water, room size, comfort, food quality are the ones I would put high on the list. The others aren't an issue but absence of hot water definitely was. Would others agree? Those who only ever have cold showers on account of their experiences during schooldays needn't reply.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 25-04-12 16:17; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DCG, Name and shame them here. TO and appartment, it may save some other SH getting the same treatment!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Wear merino, spend the shower time drinking. Everybody wins!
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Did you also tell the TO about the good points, as sometimes complaints can work better when you do that. It helps to show the company that you aren't being unreasonable, and that you might want to book with them again if they can just fix that one point. It sounds like you are already be past the point for that now though. Also stating exactly how much compensation you are after can help if it is a reasonable sum.

Was the hot water communal to the whole building? How big was the block? Was the TO in control of the whole block or just a few apartments?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DCG, I would totally agree with you, of course you should have hot water, this isn't Sauze D'Oulx 1977. I think you are right not to name and shame just yet, you need to hold back the "maximum publicity" element of your negotiation until you literally hit a brick wall, have exhausted legal avenues and even then swap any settlement for privacy.
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if the jacuzzi & Sauna where hot why didn't you use them instead followed by a cold shower Very Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
So keep complaining until you 'literally' hit a brick wall eh?

This is on a par with the thread elsewhere that refers to an £18k round of
drinks as being literally chicken feed.....or the learned Jamie Redknapp reporting
at the weekend that 'When he was younger, Michael Owen was literally a
greyhound.' ........That one's my favourite ever misuse of literally!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
II wrote:
if the jacuzzi & Sauna where hot why didn't you use them instead followed by a cold shower Very Happy
My usual pre-dinner routine when in resort anyway... Very Happy
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/12/reality-check-literally-wrong-use-word
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DCG, I agree a hot shower after skiing is pretty basic - far more so than a stupid jacuzzi and sauna. I wouldn't use either at any time, and certainly not in preference to my own hot shower.

Sometimes, I guess, these fancy places get too fancy for their own good. I'd prefer simple, but everything basic in top working order.

However, I wouldn't hold out much chance of success if you sued for lack of a hot shower. If I were you, I'd just think about the good stuff, and move on.
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mountainaddict, you literally posted that twice
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II wrote:
if the jacuzzi & Sauna where hot why didn't you use them instead followed by a cold shower Very Happy

I suspect that's what the OP did while there.

Doesn't mean it's right, especially since it's a "fairly expensive" upscale holiday. Just because he found a way around the problem doesn't mean he can't seek compensation, given he raised the issue right away but it was not resolved. If the TO couldn't fix the problem, they've got the whole week to come up with some sort of compensation, whether it's money back or free wine.
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nozawaonsen wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/12/reality-check-literally-wrong-use-word


Had this discussion today about the misuse of literally. I am now using it liberally and often in sarcastic context to try and establish who has a clue or not. Amusing! Anyway, I digress.... I totally agree that the right to hot water should be complained about in absence. Let's put it this way, if I was staying in a shocking apartment but had a top notch shower I'd be a happy person! Flip it on its head and stay in a luxury chalet with no decent shower or water and think most people will get very annoyed very quickly!!!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

!!!!

FiFi_Trixibell, isn't one exclamation mark enough????
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Unplug the jacuzzi. Plenty of power left for hot water and shower. Job's a good un Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Nothing malfunctions in Switzerland.

Did you try turning the shower lever to the red bit?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Can get away with a cold shower with all the lasses bending over Very Happy .

All jokoing aside, got have hot water on tap, no matter the price.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hotel Jizzcuzi is a breeding ground for bacteria. Not somewhere to get clean.

Swtizerland is becoming a third world country since they entered Schengen!
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Whitegold, Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My point in posting was to gauge othes' views on the importance of having availability of hot water after a day's skiing, so I didn't name & shame the TO (although that might come later) and I haven't dwelt on the details of the poor way in which the resort manager responded - although this will be part of my case if I do end up in court. However, for info, the apartment block was exclusive to this TO and the wellnes centre was shared with the other apartments. I share Davidof's views about communal jacuzzis hence why I didn't use it, but some others in my party valued it which is why I didn't do as halfhand suggested, but the thought did cross my mind.
And yes, Whitegold, I do know about the red bit on the shower control. However, my advice to you if in a similar situation is that you need to turn the control beyond the red bit, not to it.
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Quote:

Jizzcuzi
Laughing Laughing

DCG, Of course you should have water anytime you want, its a ski apartment not a bunkhouse! Complain and get a partial refund. I'd have gone ape!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
My heart was literally in my boots when I read this thread.


It's blimmin annoying, certainly. I stayed in a chalet recently where the shower never produced properly hot water until you hit it - lesson given by chalet staff after I asked them to turn up the thermostat on the boiler (oh no, it's controlled by the landlord). That annoyed me greatly. But then it was Italy and the plugs would just fall out of the wall sockets, literally.


But really you have the choice of having a really miserable holiday, or just enjoy the blitz spirit of it. Abroad is a dreadful place where literally nothing ever works, why are you surprised.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 14-03-12 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Jizzcuzi

Laughing Laughing Laughing

I doubt you'd get much by suing them - but you would have thought they would make a goodwill gesture of a few bob.

Love a hot bath after a days skiing.

If you get no joy, Id name the place. Make sure you do a Trip Advisor report aswell.
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DCG, was it stone cold, or just not piping hot?

a cold shower is a better reason for complaining than cold plates or a cold cuts - both of which as I recall caused fury in less tolerant snowHeads
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Yes it would wee wee me off something rotten. No I couldn't be arsed trying to sue them. There is not enough time in life to enjoy things anyway so why fill it up with this sort of thing??

So put the name of both the TO and the hotel/chalet here and be done with it...
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Always have a hot bath after skiing, it's part of my routine!! Apres drink, bath, chill a while, get ready for dinner, out for the evening - at the end of the day, something like hot water should be a guarantee!

Keep on complaining, I say...good luck
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
Do you really need a hot shower after a day on the slopes?

Yes.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DCG wrote:
My point in posting was to gauge othes' views on the importance of having availability of hot water after a day's skiing, so I didn't name & shame the TO (although that might come later) and I haven't dwelt on the details of the poor way in which the resort manager responded - although this will be part of my case if I do end up in court. However, for info, the apartment block was exclusive to this TO and the wellnes centre was shared with the other apartments. I share Davidof's views about communal jacuzzis hence why I didn't use it, but some others in my party valued it which is why I didn't do as halfhand suggested, but the thought did cross my mind.
And yes, Whitegold, I do know about the red bit on the shower control. However, my advice to you if in a similar situation is that you need to turn the control beyond the red bit, not to it.


Dcg

Why are you protecting hotel and DO. They did you over and you will get no satsfaction

They know you will never bring this to court and pay a lawyer thousands to get 100 euro compo. Don't even use that threat

Since recession: this is how TOs work. They cut capacity, negotiate rock bottom prices with remaining hotels so they can barely break even, but keep prices high so profit margins go up and compensate for reduced volume of business. In turn hotel management are resentful towards TOs and their clients.

This is not good enough for holidays you spend a fortune on. If you spent half that amount for a new boiler in your home and couldn't get a hot shower I am sure you would not stand for it

I am an avid user of tripadvisor and booking and always check reviews of any hotel before I book. And let me tell you hotels and even TOs are very sensitive to what is said there. You should name and shame both and do us all favour.

Ps I seemed to haveheard many skiiers complain about feeling that zermatt burnt way too much out of their wallets. I have not been, have been thinking about going for it, but now will definitely not go
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DCG, I completely agree with you. I usually lie in a hot bath for at least half an hour after a hard day's skiing.

patricksh, I cancelled my Zermatt trip this year, as did the relatively wealthy people I normally ski with. We could all afford it, but we don't like feeling like we're being ripped off.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Patricksh wrote:
They know you will never bring this to court and pay a lawyer thousands to get 100 euro compo. Don't even use that threat
it's very cheap and easy to sue these days and you don't need lawyers. My view is that you should just get on and do it - the sooner they have a writ to concentrate their mind the better.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DCG, Shame you dont feel able to name the establishment that seemed to cause you so much inconvenience .
I can report a completely different situation on a recent trip to Austria. In our appartment, a clearly failing shower, reported to the owner end of day 2 (Sunday) , completely replaced by our return from skiing on day 3 (Monday)! Excellent service, no arguements and we are already booked in there next year. The establishent was the Chalet Christine in Flachau.
Hope you get some resolution but I expect if they haven't done anything yet, they are not likely to. Good luck!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Answering the original question yes its absolutely obligatory these days just had a great one thanks
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I would expect a "hot" shower, not just a lukewarm one, is REQUIRED for any lodging establishment. Not just for ski apartments.
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abc wrote:
I would expect a "hot" shower, not just a lukewarm one, is REQUIRED for any lodging establishment. Not just for ski apartments.


+1
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
red 27 wrote:
DCG, was it stone cold, or just not piping hot?



It was cold.
In answer to others, I would rather get some compensation than go for the name & shame approach. Maybe that's being selfish, but I would expect this particular problem has now been solved. Having said that, there were a few other issues associated with this particular trip that made me wonder a bit about the future prospects for this TO, so maybe I'll reconsider the strategy.
I plan to use the small claims court. Season's almost over now so it'll give me something to do while waiting for the snow again.
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FraserP wrote:
.
I can report a completely different situation on a recent trip to Austria. In our appartment, a clearly failing shower, reported to the owner end of day 2 (Sunday) , completely replaced by our return from skiing on day 3 (Monday)! Excellent service, no arguements and we are already booked in there next year. The establishent was the Chalet Christine in Flachau.


Thanks for the compliment; I'm looking forward to the instant, constant hot water and the new shower myself this weekend Very Happy
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Been there, not as bad a problem as no hot shower, but we were unhappy all the same (and we're pretty easy going). We brought problem up with rep when there (at least twice), again on questionnaire (as not solved when there), few emails to TO, nothing happening, until we called and mentioned that we'd explain it all on Snowheads - result - compensation!

We weren't looking for loads, just what we felt we'd lost out on, and the fact that the rep really didn't help annoyed us.

Power to Snowheads I say!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Our first season out in Austria was the 2006/07 season... we had no idea on the water demands necessary and whether our system could cope.... quite simply it couldn't.
We have 5 rooms and up to 14 beds and (at that time) had an oil burner that fired both the central heating and the hot water tank (300 litres).

Whenever we had large groups stay that took the whole house we would always run out of water. 13 or 14 people all pop back at the same time, chuck on the showers (and sometimes leaving them on far too long to 'warm' up)... so person 11+ would normally end up with no water.

This we fixed by fitting another water tank to hold about 700 litres or so.

Would it or should it ruin your holiday... well that is up to you... if water isn't available between 5 and 7 then why not just chill and have a beer?... or get in first?... this whole issue relies on far too many variables to 'sue' a TO. Should you not take room number 3 to court for running their shower for too long?, or room number 7 as that lady was using a conditioner that needed an extra 2 min showering time. Or what if the problem was fixed by raising the hot water temp and then this resulted in scalding someone?

In resort, what would you expect to happen? Fit a new hot water tank?... or maybe fit the showers with tokens that only allow a fixed amount of time?

You are on holiday, you have paid a lot of money and yes... everything should be perfect for you - but something cocked up, you couldn't have a hot shower so tell everyone about it... maybe not the TO (as it really was completely out of their control and there is nothing they could do about it at the time anyway)... but let everybody know what the name of the chalet is and in which resort (you could also use trip advisor, facebook etc..etc..)

This then acts as a decent forewarning for poeple looking to stay there and will help everybody out rather than just financially 'compensating' you.

(.... I do hope this ain't me wink )
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flangesax wrote:
In resort, what would you expect to happen? Fit a new hot water tank?... or maybe fit the showers with tokens that only allow a fixed amount of time?

Be honest and say it can't be fixed and detail what sort of compensation will be offered!

Quote:
This then acts as a decent forewarning for poeple looking to stay there and will help everybody out rather than just financially 'compensating' you.

Why not do both? Name the TO that take care of their customers (or not!) when things go wrong!

That's exactly what the OP is doing. Whether the TO compensate him, will determin how they'll be viewed on snowhead. If they compensate him, they'll get a positive review here. If not, a negative one.

But he has a better chance of getting compensation without naming the TO on the first chance. That's just how it works.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 16-03-12 15:18; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:

Name the TO that take care of their customers (or not!) when things go wrong!


I'd approach it from a completely different angle anyhoo....

I'd write a letter to inform the TO's CEO about the problem in this particular accommodation. Let them know how you feel it was inconvenient (rather than disastrously ruining your entire holiday) and that in the future they should consider this problem before re-booking the accommodation for next season.

I bet in a reply from the CEO you would get a discount voucher for your next holiday with them. IMO this is a reasonable response.

(honestly; suing over a shower.. come on rolling eyes )
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