 Poster: A snowHead
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I threatened to write a post about self teaching kids on a thread at the back end of last season, and Pam W encouraged me to do so, so here goes. First off, self teaching is not for everyone and this is not a parent bashing post for those that choose to go the ski school route. I guess we are a cut above the norm in that my wife is a German national who skied since she was 5/6 and I am older father so had skied a couple of weeks a year for 14 years before my first child was born. I did 2 weeks ski school when I started and one private lesson since. My wife was pretty much self taught. So anyway, we are both very confident and experienced skiers with different backgrounds. Having said that, I also know another couple with less experience/ability who self taught. So I don't believe it is a preserve of the expert skiers out there.
So how did we go about it. Well, the first time we decided to go out was when our son was a month shy of 4yo. So technically 3 but almost 4. Our daughter was 1y9m. We went with grandparents but their main job was to babysit the younger who was not going to ski. I have seen kids that young on ski's. You can get ones with plastic bindings and what not. But for us we considered a waste of time at that age (more later). Anyway, the big criteria for that first trip was to find somewhere with a Tapis (French for carpet) or travelator or moving belt type lift. Also a place where that Tapis was easily accessible. We found one at the Les Bruyerres area of Les Menuires in 3V. So we found a suitable apartment there. The beauty of a carpet lift is that there is no hassles for the kids. No really hassles getting on or falling off, they are short and you will only ever find true beginners and kids on them. It's the ideal starting point. You can concentrate on just teaching. To start with we just held him and skied down with him between our legs. No pole(s) involved and just really snowploughing down. After a few goes at that we got one pole and had him hold on to that skiing down with mummy or daddy. Next mummy or daddy got him in the snowplough stance and held his hands. We'd ski down backwards slowly with him gradually getting some pressure on the big toe and therefore getting the turning going. The gradient of any carpet slope will be such that not much can go wrong. Although clearly the parent needs to be competent enough to all this but on a shallow slope.
This mix and match of between the legs, on the pole, and holding hands went on for a couple of days for 2-4 hours a day depending on how you timed it (there was the odd chocolate/water break, or digging/sledging mixed in). I think it was the third afternoon but it doesn't matter if it was 3rd or 4th there was a discussion of "what next?" Clearly you will be looking for an easy but longer slope. There were some green options where we were but it was quite warm and slushy so we went for going up a two stage cable car and skiing a long blue back down from altitude where the snow would be nice. Cable cars are of course easier than chair lifts to mount. Being a two stage it meant if things went bad we could download from the mid station or upload for another top half. Little 'un skied in between mum and dad which offered protection from other skiers and at the same time protection from any falls, etc. These were magical moments really, seeing the little fella getting into it, looking around the mountain, and enjoying himself. One surprising aspect (or maybe not) was an obsession with skiing over little bumps or lumps of snow. It was a great way of keeping him interested, to keep turning and maintaining enough speed to not stop (although inevitably getting stuck in some of the bigger lumps). We did go back up from the mid station. He got a bit tired and a little choccy and water had to be administered but then he loved the slush hills further down, unlike many of the more experienced punters  The rest of that week was more of the same really. My wife pointed out that when she was little she would ski at a "one lift hill" and that when they are little they don't want to ski lots of different runs. Again something I'd not really considered. Occasionally we regressed back to the pole or between the legs even, if on a steeper section or somesuch but largely he was skiing by himself.
Next stop was Aime La Plagne 9 months later, christmas week. No grandparents this time and also no Tapis on account of we were meeting up with two other families, one of which had a disabled skier and so had specific requirements of their own. Whilst for the older boy it was just a case of him picking up where he left, we were starting the younger one off. Being a year and half younger than when her brother started she was far more difficult. This wasn't unexpected and we didn't push things too far. She enjoyed being left and allowed to slide down 2 or 3 metres landing with a bump into mummy and daddy's arms. But the idea of turning or indeed of any danger in not doing so wasn't there. The beginner run was serviced by a drag lift with a less than ideal camber. So anyway she did a bit and was on the road as it were. Meanwhile the older one was going great guns. I think there was a brief experimentation with poles but only really to prove to him that they were still a hindrance. Again he wasn't too fussed about variety but we did get about a bit. I remember going down a blue run which turned into a quite steep and narrow set of moguls at one point, and he coped superbly. He didn't like the idea of spending time alone going up drags so we tended to avoid those.
4 months later at Easter we were off to Oz-en-Oisans. This satellite village of ADH does have a carpet lift and excellent learner slope. This was great for the younger one who skied "on the pole" a lot and occasionally by herself. It was interesting comparing the two. The older one was quite cautious and we had to work hard on getting him to schuss and to let his ski's run. The younger one was the reverse. She had no fear and would take the direct line given half the chance. So we had to work hard on getting her to turn and control her speed.
8 months later and it was another christmas trip - back at Oz. I would say they both took a big leap on this week. By now the eldest was 5y8m and the youngest 3y5m. The eldest was now starting to really enjoy himself and the biggest problem was that on three occasions he skied off well out of sight without checking where his skiing partners were. There was a really proud moment mid-week when the younger one skied past an adult ski group in line taking some tuition from their instructor. It was a nice slope, graded red, and I was just leaving her to her own devices. She has a tendency to sing or hum when she is relaxed and skiing comfortably. And she went down doing nice snowplough turns down past the group singing away. I couldn't help but feel a bit smug.
The eldest was introduced to some powder skiing at the side of pistes. We weren't too sure how he would handle that but it wasn't too bad at all. He was starting to use poles quite regularly now. The youngest had found a sense of control and was starting to read the slope, and adjust her edging accordingly. I tried to get the older one to try certain exercises, tricks even, to improve technique. Some of these I've been taught myself, or seen, and even a couple I've got from books. Also, it's worth starting to talk about safety on the slopes and in the mountain environment. Some of the time, they are not receptive - and you ease off. One of the good things of course is that you know your child well, and you know what works with them. It's always a case really of what's next... moving on, then consolidating. Planting the seeds.
We could move around as a group reasonably well by now. We did tend to split up periodically because the youngest may have wanted to finish early or the eldest wanted to try something new. On her final trip in April of this year we did ski as a group a bit more. The conditions were very difficult (lack of snow) which did hinder us slightly but other than that it was more of the same. We had a bad visibility which was good experience for everybody. Bit nervy for mum and dad but we got through it. We also encountered a severely icy slope on the Bellecote Glacier. That was really nasty, and IMO the worst experience I've had skiing with the kids. It wasn't just the concern of getting ourselves down, it was also the worry of others sliding away and taking us out. But again, we had some magical moments with them, really great moments.
Reflecting, there was no doubt it could be quite physically tough in the early stages. And quite frustrating not to be able to do our own skiing. But the teaching itself was actually a lot of fun, and largely a great experience. I suppose the beauty of little kids is you can't talk technique with them. It really is a show and follow exercise. Once you've got them snowploughing and turning, it's just building each day from that.
No doubt, I've left bits or emphasised things wrong. It would be great to hear other peoples thoughts, experiences also. Hopefully there will be something of interest to some people.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[grouch]
I'm going to be negative, sorry. Apologies, in advance, for the stereotyping...
[rant]
Layne, well done for managing to fit in nearly every practice that really winds me up.
Children skiing between legs and children skiing "on the pole" are just as dangerous and stupid as having kids in a backpack or on your shoulders when skiing.
Parent's flying "outrigger" for little children.
Worst of all, parents that can't really ski that well teaching their children how to be bad skiers. There really isn't anything that annoys me more than that.
(How long you've been skiing and at what age you began the self-teaching process has nothing to do with ability.)
And why on earth should someone be proud of their child skiing past people receiving instruction????
What you're really saying in this post is that "we think we're really good skiers and that instruction has nothing to offer us or our children". 
[/rant]
Sorry, I'm sure you're very proud, but if you want them to be the best they can be then what you teach them now matters.
[/grouch]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FlyingStantoni, I'm not so sure why you object to
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Parent's flying "outrigger" for little children.
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Our kids have skied from 4 yrs old and as they progressed we have taken them on suitable slopes. But there are a lot of fast and worse out of control skiers and boarders on blues and greens even in " ski tranquille " areas and so we did position ourselves above our kids to try and prevent any crashes .
I think it is natutally protective and when I see other parents doing that I stay well away . There's usually tons more space .
Layne, your reference to kids wanting to find bumps and lumps to ski over/through brings back good memories ! If only we could stay with them now on the bumps.
John
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On the other hand why shouldn't parents teach their kids some basics of skiing, particularly if they get joy out of the learning process? After all not many people employ cycling or climbing instructors to supervise their kids' initial development in those activities.
Personally I'd probably be happy to put my kids in a class -i) because they might get enjoyment out of the learning with others process and ii) because it would allow me some time to ski myself, but I wouldn't knock others until I see them struggling with kids on terrain that is clearly out of their depth and not somewhere a competent instructor would have taken them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well I'm going to be taking paulio jr out, at the tender age of 'recently turned 2', possibly starting next weekend.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I see more accidents, tears, ruined confidence and destruction of the potential joy in learning a new sport by untrained "experts" teaching their friends, husbands teaching wives (never seen the reverse) and worst of all well meaning parents teaching beginner children.
All other parents reading the OP should take notice that the OP should NOT be of interest to others.
No axe to grind with Layne but i have been teaching under 11's weekly for over 5 years and have seen first hand bad accidents when untrained parents are "teaching" at the snow domes... The methods you used are poor, instill bad habits and some are downright dangerous, for instance taking beginners on an icy glacial run shows pretty poor judgement but hey your an expert skier and "a cut above the norm" 
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
Children skiing between legs and children skiing "on the pole" are just as dangerous and stupid as having kids in a backpack or on your shoulders when skiing.
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Why are they dangerous? (Genuine questions!)
Yes, they may not be optimal, but calling them dangerous is a little extreme....
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RobW, ever see an adult fall with a young child between their legs, i have several times and it isn't pretty....
nor is it a good ending when junior who is hanging onto the end of a sharp ski pole starts going too fast, gets below dad, sits down and gets stabbed in the chest
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Agreed they can have a tumble, but it's not like the kid is going to die from frostbite as they can in a backpack. I have certainly seen plenty of instructors using their ski poles as described with very small kids in Austria and France.
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Reading all opinions with interest - I have a horrible feeling i'm going to have to learn to ski myself  to assist in the training of Sideways_Jnr and his little brother. Bit tricky from a board. Hmm, maybe snowblades...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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RobW, i saw a child hospitalised with a ruptured spleen when mum landed on top of her, have seen several twisted knees when falling on top of the kid. Why is holding a child between legs safer than letting them get on with skiing on easy gentle terrain. usually the parents put kids between legs when they are on completely inappropriate terrain (too steep) which was the first mistake.
the experienced teachers in Austria France probably wouldnt shish kebab the kid but i wouldnt recommend it. the child gets used to having something to hang onto and develops bad habits...
almost without exception watch a kid hanging onto a pole between the parents legs (ever see that done by an instructor?) the legs turn to jelly and they just flop around and dont learn anything except that it is scary going fast and not having any control over your own actions.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, As I said, it's not optimal, but hardly as dangerous and stupid as having kids in a backpack which is the claim made by FlyingStantoni and that you can't seem to justify either.
And I've seen serious injuries when people fall over in lift queues too. Does that mean lift queues should be scrapped?? (I wish!)
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RobW, sorry having children between you legs IS dangerous and stupid.. but we can agree to disagree
parents holding johnny between their legs on poma's usually ends in tears as well
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You know it makes sense.
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I was taught to ski by my dad.
He taught both me and my sister to ski and we skied with him for a few years. I was 2 and my sister 4 when we started. He got bored by the time we were 6 and 8 and put us into ski school from then on.
I have to say I wish I had always gone to ski school. I loved it. Meeting other children and most of all the instructors were always so nice. My dad was never horrid but I never had as much fun as I did in ski school. I also feel I would have learnt better technique quicker in ski school. He was a good skier but not a good teacher.
But I still like ski school many years later so maybe I'm not a good judge of the norm. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| chelseafc wrote: |
He was a good skier but not a good teacher.
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I think that's the crux of the whole thing - being a good skier doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| alltnaha wrote: |
FlyingStantoni, I'm not so sure why you object to
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Parent's flying "outrigger" for little children.
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Our kids have skied from 4 yrs old and as they progressed we have taken them on suitable slopes. But there are a lot of fast and worse out of control skiers and boarders on blues and greens even in " ski tranquille " areas and so we did position ourselves above our kids to try and prevent any crashes .
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Because you take up the whole piste, because, invariably, JR is skiing irracticly; because the parents typically can't control their own speed and because they're typically filming and not paying attention.
Because I've been literally forced off piste and injured by such inconsiderate parents.
Parent at the front setting a good line; child; parent at the back. You are not, repeat not, migrating geese.
People skiing out of control isn't good. But kids have no extra rights here and I've seen people skied into by kids and then berated by the parents, which is simply unacceptable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, So you've heard of kids dead from frostbite when between the parent's legs???
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RobW, I have no scientific data to prove this, but my simple observation is that the consequences of falling with a kid between your legs is not good for the kid and the chances of the kid tripping you up are high enough
As SkiMottaret says, if they're between your legs or "on the pole" then you're on the wrong terrain.
If you find yourself on a steep slope then the best option is to ski in front of them and give them a nice line to follow. If they fall then you should be able to stop them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I do see a lot of parents with kids between their legs, in our resort. French, 99.9% of them, and certainly competent skiers. It strikes me as something done, on the whole, because the parents want to go faster than the kid is able to do alone - because they'd be very bored with the practically non existent slope kids need to start learning on. Some of the kids enjoy the speed and whizziness - but agreed, they're not learning anything. It's probably not more dangerous than carrying kids on your shoulders on an icy pavements (though that is something I'd never do, either). I've never seen a ski instructor do the "between the legs" trick, even in a private lesson though I have seen them taking kids that way up draglifts (my grand-daughter was taken up a lift that way by her instructor - I was riding behind, with orders to take photos to "show her teacher" and I had no qualms at all - but she was an instructor, not a parent. I'd be nervous doing it myself, for sure.
I also see far too many parents with littlies on slopes too steep for them, which gives me the willies and makes me very cross. Even one luckless brat on a black, last year, well out of her depth and scared. Made me want to grab the parents (they were both there) and shove them on a snowboard and send them down a black.
One of the instructors we've used a few times in Les Saisies put her starter 4 year old in a class with a different instructor (we met up with them, out on the mountain one day). She said she'd prefer that, and the lad behaved better.
On the whole I think it's best to put kids in ski school but certainly a lot of French parents seem to self teach, and the kids don't become hopeless skiers, as far as I can tell. But the average French parens probably skis better than the average Brit.
I think there's room for a range of approaches. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FlyingStantoni, yes no doubt some of what you say can and does happen , which is bad for everyone.
But to say
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Parent at the front setting a good line; child; parent at the back. You are not, repeat not, migrating geese.
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is just how many groups of friends, families and dare I say it ski schools migrate around the slopes.
What is your answer - keep the kids off such basic slopes ?
Sorry but you have to have some patience and tolerance - just like with L drivers on the road . We all had to start , learning , practising and developing somewhere and somehow .
As I said I stay well away from such families and yes whilst it can be frustrating take your time , it will not delay you too much or do you have a special ski pass which gives you precedence ? Easy beginners slopes are there for kids and adults at that stage .
John
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think some parents may be adequate (possibly good) ski teachers for their children. But even if the parent is a great skier and a great and safe teacher there is still an opportunity lost for their child. I think lots of children idolise their ski instructors. What child in their right mind idolises their parent? Surely the children respond better to being taught by someone else anyway - even if (for little children) that can be daunting initially. I think daunting is actually quite good given the safety aspect.
When I pay for private lessons for myself I want the focus to be entirely on me - I don't want my instructor to have personal 'needs' from my learning. Parents do tend to have big investments in their children's learning (feeling smug?) and that would remove some of the focus from the pupil.
But: teaching a child to ski? Why would I do it (even if I could) when there are brilliant instructors out there to do it much better?
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skimottaret, I better keep out of this thread
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| RobW, I have no scientific data to prove this, but my simple observation is that the consequences of falling with a kid between your legs is not good for the kid and the chances of the kid tripping you up are high enough . |
Oh I totally and utterly agree. But to compare the practice as being as equivalently dangerous as skiing with a young child in a backpack is just going a bit far.
Dangerousness is a continuum, from only very slightly dangerous (lying in bed surrounded by cotton wool), to marginally dangerous (skiing!), to highly dangerous (base jumping without fundamental training).
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alltnaha, I think the bit you quoted is what FlyingStantoni was advocating as the right way to get about - as opposed to the flying geese formation.
What you see more often is father shooting down the slope (often not terribly eptly, and certainly not laying down a line the child could follow) and then stopping, looking back up, and shouting instructions to bemused child.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FlyingStantoni,
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| And why on earth should someone be proud of their child skiing past people receiving instruction???? |
Sorry, I admit that was rather vain of me. But I thought sod it, let's tell it like really was.
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| well done for managing to fit in nearly every practice that really winds me up. |
You know what's really good, I did that without even trying.
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| Children skiing between legs and children skiing "on the pole" are just as dangerous and stupid as having kids in a backpack or on your shoulders when skiing. |
Is that so. Well that's funny but I've never done the latter because I think it's bloody dangerous. Whereas I've done the former extensively. What a dick I am.
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| Worst of all, parents that can't really ski that well teaching their children how to be bad skiers. There really isn't anything that annoys me more than that. |
Me too.
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| How long you've been skiing and at what age you began the self-teaching process has nothing to do with ability. |
Sorry I mentioned it.
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| What you're really saying in this post is that "we think we're really good skiers and that instruction has nothing to offer us or our children" |
Is that what I was saying, was it really.
Err, no.
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| Sorry, I'm sure you're very proud, but if you want them to be the best they can be then what you teach them now matters. |
I couldn't agree more.
Thanks alltnaha, fatbob, paulio, RobW for your supportive comments. Not that I was looking for support as such but it was nice to know I'm not a complete prick.
skimottaret,
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| I see more accidents, tears, ruined confidence and destruction of the potential joy in learning a new sport by untrained "experts" teaching their friends, husbands teaching wives (never seen the reverse) and worst of all well meaning parents teaching beginner children. |
Well lets get the facts right for a start. I am not untrained. I have had a fair amount of tuition myself, I am a coach in a different sport. So I know the sort of cowdoo that can be tagged on to having the badge. It's a bit like passing your driving test. Instructors get a licence to teach, it doesn't mean they are good teachers. Does no one really take tuition from their fellow skiers. It's funny that because I tell my senior volleyball players to teach all the time. Even though they have diddly squat in terms of official qualifications. And kids are a whole different ball game. You can't teach a 4yo the same way you do a 24yo. Also, it's funny how the school want me to help teach my kids to read, write, do maths, etc. I am not going to teach them how to play a musical instrument or car mechanics though. You know why, because I know jack about those.
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| All other parents reading the OP should take notice that the OP should NOT be of interest to others. |
What are you, God.
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| for instance taking beginners on an icy glacial run shows pretty poor judgement but hey your an expert skier and "a cut above the norm |
Well screw you. That was error of judgement in one weeks skiing. I don't remember claiming it was a perfect learning process. And as I mentioned one of the biggest cause for concern were other skiers, not our own. The slope should never have been open, as it wasn't safe for anybody. poo-poo happens.
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| ever see an adult fall with a young child between their legs, i have several times and it isn't pretty.... |
It's funny, we did it loads and loads, down all manner of slopes, we fell over the odd time. But nothing bad happened. I guess we just got lucky.
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| nor is it a good ending when junior who is hanging onto the end of a sharp ski pole starts going too fast, gets below dad, sits down and gets stabbed in the chest |
Yeah, we've got two kids with pockmarked chests. Eh, but it saved a few bob on instruction. Which was clearly the whole point of it.
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| Why is holding a child between legs safer than letting them get on with skiing on easy gentle terrain. |
It's not. Which is why it was a pretty brief exercise in that respect. Used somewhat as a fun introduction to what it's all about. On a beginner slope it's not at all dangerous and serves it's brief purpose. I guess you could skip it if you want.
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| usually the parents put kids between legs when they are on completely inappropriate terrain (too steep) which was the first mistake. |
There are a number of reasons you may resort back to the between the legs. Sure one of them is when you've been bitten of more than you can chew. But conditions can change rather rapidly as we all know. And what was quite suitable an hour ago suddenly becomes much less so right now. Another factor is children can tire rapidly and down tools. Now, if I'd wanted to be ultra safe we could have stayed on the most shallow slopes and/or never ventured out for more than hour. But we decided to take a calculated gamble and risk having to ski between the legs on occasion. Hard work for mummy and daddy and to be avoided if possible. But then I am an expert skier [tongue firmly in cheek]
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| almost without exception watch a kid hanging onto a pole between the parents legs (ever see that done by an instructor?) the legs turn to jelly and they just flop around and dont learn anything except that it is scary going fast and not having any control over your own actions. |
I've not seen an instructor do it but then they do tend to have a dozen kids under their supervision so they probably can't find a pole long enough. I have been party to instructors not giving a flying stuff about the safety of their group though. I totally accept your point that skiing on the pole can be a pointless exercise if you just let the child dangle. Which is why you, err don't.
Back to FlyingStantoni
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| If you find yourself on a steep slope then the best option is to ski in front of them and give them a nice line to follow. If they fall then you should be able to stop them. |
Totally agree.
Pam W,
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| I have seen them taking kids that way up draglifts |
We were taught by the lift attendent to put them on one knee. Worked well.
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| On the whole I think it's best to put kids in ski school but certainly a lot of French parents seem to self teach, and the kids don't become hopeless skiers, as far as I can tell. But the average French parens probably skis better than the average Brit. |
Agreed.
red_sledge,
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| I think some parents may be adequate (possibly good) ski teachers for their children. But even if the parent is a great skier and a great and safe teacher there is still an opportunity lost for their child. I think lots of children idolise their ski instructors. What child in their right mind idolises their parent? Surely the children respond better to being taught by someone else anyway - even if (for little children) that can be daunting initially. I think daunting is actually quite good given the safety aspect. |
That's an interesting perspective. Personally I didn't idolise any instructors/teachers I had as a child. I loved doing stuff my with my dad and didn't get enough of it. My wife learnt loads of stuff from her parents. I've had some very good coaching over the years in various sports. I've invariably found I learnt a bit from each. But I can't see 4-8 years old doing this.
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| When I pay for private lessons for myself I want the focus to be entirely on me - I don't want my instructor to have personal 'needs' from my learning. Parents do tend to have big investments in their children's learning (feeling smug?) and that would remove some of the focus from the pupil. |
I think you are expecting too much from a paid instructor but then I would say that.
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| But: teaching a child to ski? Why would I do it (even if I could) when there are brilliant instructors out there to do it much better? |
Well, as I said, I didn't post to have that debate. I simply, perhaps naively, thought it may be interesting to share my experiences.
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| At the end of last season he was 6 1/2 and was in his 4th season and was just on his 3rd ESF etoile. |
We have a friend with a son who is the same age as ours. She bangs on about this grade and that grade. I've no idea of the significance of it. It could well be that my children are crap skiers for their age. I blame the parents.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Layne, I enjoyed your first post and your reply even better. good on you.
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Maybe I should post a similarly detailed rundown of how I taught my girlfriend to ski (beginning with sticking her on a draglift in Verbier, and culminating in a black run a mere 3 days later). I bet that would really annoy everyone as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| alltnaha wrote: |
What is your answer - keep the kids off such basic slopes ?
Sorry but you have to have some patience and tolerance - just like with L drivers on the road . We all had to start , learning , practising and developing somewhere and somehow .
As I said I stay well away from such families and yes whilst it can be frustrating take your time , it will not delay you too much or do you have a special ski pass which gives you precedence ? Easy beginners slopes are there for kids and adults at that stage . |
Not at all and not my intention to suggest.
My observation is that parents can be as inconsiderate about slope use as someone skiing too fast or out of control.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If it turns out those are Layne's kids, there's going to be a lot of egg on a lot of faces.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Layne wrote: |
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| well done for managing to fit in nearly every practice that really winds me up. |
You know what's really good, I did that without even trying.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To be more serious, it does at least partly hinge on the personality of the parent. I did not get behind the wheel of a car with my father in it before I had passed a driving test. That had nothing to do with his competence as a driver - he was an exceptionally good driver - but everything to do with the certain knowledge that taking lessons with him would end in tears.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OK - Bearing in mind that we always put our son in ski school because
1) I dont have the patience, and dont want to lose it and shout at him when he doesnt get it
2) it got to be more fun learning with other kids ( ever watch a group of kid mucking about whilt the instuctor is telling them something )
3) I am not that brilliant a skier that i feel i should teach
what we ( and he) like to do is ski in a group , and typically we ski in the migratory group ( incidently most ski lessons seem to have that system )
mum ( poised , technically great, able to hold a slow speed down most steep reds ( actually never does get that fast but dont tell her ) ) followed up by me, and we do that for the reasons that it does mean that i get taken out first if someone come up behind, however to be fiar we alway ski with a good distance between us to allow passing skiers & boarders
it doesnt work all the time - last year our son was hit at high speed by an italian teen and wiped out ( mind you it was funny as he called him a few choice names ( no swear words tho unlike some adults),
so - what is the best way - bearing in mind that most slopes we go down with him are busy, and i think that far too many people when skiing out of lessons go a bit mad whilst trying to improve
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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gazza2, There are two answers.
According to ski mottaret your kid should be accompanied by an instructor at all times as their god-like abilities will supernaturally keep them safe. Presumably if you got yourself basi qualified it would also protect your kids from accidents in the home, the car and everywhere else.
According to flying stantoni you should not be on a slope until you all can ski as fast as he wants to ski. Until then you are to stay on a dead flat section and keep out of everyone's way.
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Ok for what it is worth here is my two cents with parent teaching kids.
Most Kids are visual learners and will instantly replicate all of Mammy and Daddy's good or bad habits as the case may be.
Kids will tend to learn quicker from an independent person especially one they view as an expert. But again all kids are different as are all instructors I have seen some instructors that I would not leave my dog with never mind a child.
I think the sensible approach for people who want to teach their kids is a mix of ski school and time skiing with Mammy and Daddy to supplement. Preferably with Mammy and Daddy Skiing BEHIND the kids so they can develop their own style of skiing rather than replicating their parents.
(Publishers Note - If your father is Herman Maier Ski behind him)
The risks that have been alluded to above in relation to injuries to either the child or others are very real. I have seen at both Hemel and Chill factore this behaviour and have wondered how it is allow to continue without one of the staff having a quiet word. In the Alpine environment I have seen some crazy stuff but 90% of it is done by competent individuals who are not putting their child at risk. It’s the 10% or so that everyone focus on.
The fact that you’re your child can ski past people receiving instruction is not a measure of their skill unless they are doing it in a controlled manner, but again as there are no further indicators as to the context I have no comment
Myself and the wife are both qualified instructors who teach on a weekly basis during the season.
When we started to teach our niece we decided that she would ski with my wife at first as she is technically perfect in stance and movement. Then as our Niece advanced I skied with her and pushed her skiing a little more towards carving and Freestyle stuff. But her core techniques are incredible. She now moves between leering from us and is a member of the local club race squad to allow her to develop with her peers and other coaches.
Remember people it is all about balance and fun. Parents should get an opportunity to ski with and enjoy their children but in a safe and controlled manner for both themselves and others on the hill.
Instructors are not omni present god like beings it is just a piece of paper and all it means is you can tick the boxes in the various system you have passed through. It does not mean you are going to be better at applying that than somebody who does not have a bit of paper.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I walk with a bit of a stoop, and drag the soles of my feet sometimes. I hope I haven't instilled any bad or dangerous walking habits in my son 
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FAQ
