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Is carving more tiring than skidding?

 Poster: A snowHead
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Split1950, if it's proper ice, you'll have to skid your turns but if it's icy, firm hardpack, you should be able to get practically unlimited grip if you've got sharp edges from tip to tail. But isn't the Mission a lead and tail edge 'rockered' ski anyway so is going to be more difficult to really engage those edges on hardpack (no matter what those marketing folks might tell us) and an absolute nightmare on an icy traverse. Puzzled

Edit ... I haven't ever used a rockered ski so maybe my fears are unfounded. Confused


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 23-03-11 16:52; edited 1 time in total
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Fairplay, I stand corrected, it was six years ago that I saw him ski.
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Kramer, even I have (semi-)learned how to carve in the last six years! Laughing
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Kramer, get yon down to Hemel some time, you'll be surprised at how ye old git Graham's skiing has come on Smile
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moffatross wrote:
Split1950, if it's proper ice, you'll have to skid your turns but if it's icy, firm hardpack, you should be able to get practically unlimited grip if you've got sharp edges from tip to tail. But isn't the Mission a lead and tail edge 'rockered' ski anyway so is going to be more difficult to really engage those edges on hardpack (no matter what those marketing folks might tell us) and an absolute nightmare on an icy traverse. Puzzled

Edit ... I haven't ever used a rockered ski so maybe my fears are unfounded. Confused


They are not rockered as far as I know, but I understand they are all mountain and not piste skis.
It is ice (they had a warning sign up on the piste!).
Like I said, on anything I feel like I am on rails, so maybe in that scenario I am just expecting too much from them.
I think I'll sharpen the edges ready for next time and give it a try.
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Split1950, a few points

- pistes are on mountains
- no sharpening after 6 weeks = no grip on anything, end of story
- IMHO, sounds like you might like to work on your angulation, although with blunt edges, there's only so much you can do...
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Kramer wrote:
Fairplay, I stand corrected, it was six years ago that I saw him ski.


cani ask, why would you directly attack someone six years after the fact
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It seems to me, the most tiring thing in skiing is to slow down. I think the reason efficient skiers don't get so tired is because they are more comfortable with speed and don't waste energy slowing down.
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nessy wrote:
It seems to me, the most tiring thing in skiing is to slow down. I think the reason efficient skiers don't get so tired is because they are more comfortable with speed and don't waste energy slowing down.


the most tiring thing in skiing is the ski bores who insist they know best Smile
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Next time I'm totally knackered and need to get down a steep red/black with the least effort possible, I'll remember to carve effortlessly from edge to edge hardly breaking a sweat. Although I might well break the sound barrier.

....or if I'm feeling like pushing myself to the absolute limit I may opt for some ultra high energy skidded turns - which will obviously be far more physically demanding rolling eyes
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nessy wrote:
It seems to me, the most tiring thing in skiing is to slow down. I think the reason efficient skiers don't get so tired is because they are more comfortable with speed and don't waste energy slowing down.


I think there is a degree of truth in this, but it's always a trade off. If you're on a bumpy surface carrying serious speed, it's going to be tiring however good you are. So you have to decide if the effort required to slow down is more or less than the effort required to soak up any bumps at speed. Would skiing a mogul field flat out take less effort than putting in a load of short radius skidded turns at lower speed? Almost certainly not.
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Quote:

Would skiing a mogul field flat out take less effort than putting in a load of short radius skidded turns at lower speed? Almost certainly not.


If I can work out your negatives, ...Certainly, yes, I find.
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Yes I personally would find carving down a black mogul run very tiring (or even dangerous) if I could do it which I can't. When I am in my comfort zone (which is quite a lot of the time since this is supposed to be fun after all), carving is less effort than skidding and going faster is less effort than going slower
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This is full of LOL. GrahamN is spot on.

Sometimes skiing on bumpy/cut up snow with short pivoty turns for a long time, my legs will get tired and I'll open up my turns into bigger carves, less movement = less effort. If I'm still getting too tired, I'll start letting the tails wash out into skids, less effort than soaking up the g's and keeping the edges loaded. When I'm really truly shattered and can barely move - survival skiing - I'll be lazily skidding around at low speed.
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clarky999 wrote:
This is full of LOL. GrahamN is spot on.


Absolutely agree, it turned into a comedy thread somewhere on p2 with more shoite than a branch of Elizabeth Duke at Argos.
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http://youtube.com/v/GRCltg8CPwQ

saw this and thought of you snowHead

Edit:
And here is how to do it wink

http://youtube.com/v/gZnUW_HcgQA&feature=related
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Split1950, I use Missions, and did quite a lots of very icy stuff when in the 4 valleys a couple of weeks ago. When sharp they can carve, or just grip pretty well, but blunt, not a hope. I found I needed to sharpen them at least every couple of days in very icy conditions - and even then the difference is quite marked. After six weeks with no sharpening they must be really blunt!
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RobinS wrote:
Split1950, I use Missions, and did quite a lots of very icy stuff when in the 4 valleys a couple of weeks ago. When sharp they can carve, or just grip pretty well, but blunt, not a hope. I found I needed to sharpen them at least every couple of days in very icy conditions - and even then the difference is quite marked. After six weeks with no sharpening they must be really blunt!


Great - this is exactly what I wanted to hear. I'll get them done ASAP.
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Split1950, I have apocket side edge tool with a diamond stone. I touch up the edges every day unless the snow is soft.
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If slope is flat and nicely groomed ,carving is easy/er. In any other type of less even terrain (smal bumps) and snow conditions (slush....etc), carving is harder and borderline unstable,hence harder
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Quote:

yes from me too. ok so riding your edges on almost flat green runs isn't tiring and carving on steeper runs also isn't too tiring if you have no fear and don't have people/objects to avoid. however, carving on steep slopes will cause you to go frikken fast if you don't put a bit of effort in. i can do skiddy noodle turns all day

maybe i just suck?

No you dont,and you are right.
Skis with radius were implemented as beneficial for racing. For recreational skiing in various piste and snow conditions with hundreds of people is almost dangerous. But people buy what they see on TV
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Nearly 7 years to the day. Good work. wink
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✌👍All in time 😃truth comes slowly
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Quote:

Skis with radius were implemented as beneficial for racing. For recreational skiing in various piste and snow conditions with hundreds of people is almost dangerous. But people buy what they see on TV


What Puzzled Puzzled rolling eyes rolling eyes
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@under a new name,
Yep ....history
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Ingemar Stenmark suggested it to ELAN for purpose of having little more support when skidding in curve
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SkiingDad wrote:
Based on people's responses, it's obviously quite individual. My own opinion isn't much different. wink

IMHO the answer is "it's not quite that simple". For me, in very slow speeds I find that edging the skis requires more effort since I don't have the Gs to balance. In medium speeds carving wins, since I can use the Gs to keep me upright while edging. This is true for high speeds as well, whereas in a very steep black I need to start skidding to keep my speed safe and it's then that I start feeling my thighs working. So IMHO skidding is almost always more tiring.

However, I feel that carving requires more control and is therefore harder to achieve if my legs are already tired.


This is the same for me, except that at low speeds I carve just by subtle weight shifts or hip dumping (yeah, i know, not so good) , so not much effort. IMO carving should be the goal of every skier, provided the conditions allow for it. There's something about laying down railroad tracks on a wide red or black pistes that just so satisfying. Now, put me on an ungroomed black mogul run and I'm a hopeless hacker...
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Pasigal wrote:
SkiingDad wrote:
Based on people's responses, it's obviously quite individual. My own opinion isn't much different. wink

IMHO the answer is "it's not quite that simple". For me, in very slow speeds I find that edging the skis requires more effort since I don't have the Gs to balance. In medium speeds carving wins, since I can use the Gs to keep me upright while edging. This is true for high speeds as well, whereas in a very steep black I need to start skidding to keep my speed safe and it's then that I start feeling my thighs working. So IMHO skidding is almost always more tiring.

However, I feel that carving requires more control and is therefore harder to achieve if my legs are already tired.


I love a good necro thread!

This is the same for me, except that at low speeds I carve just by subtle weight shifts or hip dumping (yeah, i know, not so good) , so not much effort. IMO carving should be the goal of every skier, provided the conditions allow for it. There's something about laying down railroad tracks on a wide red or black pistes that just so satisfying. Now, put me on an ungroomed black mogul run and I'm a hopeless hacker...
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@under a new name, heís agreeing with a point I made 7 years ago. Good for him Wink
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@Arno, wink
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Carving and skidding are both legitimate parts of skiing, arenít they? One is not better than the other. Both have their place, although Iím not sure that new skiers are necessarily taught how to sideslip elegantly these days?

Carving is great fun on wide groomed slopes where high speeds can safely be reached. Side slipping is necessary on crowded runs, fall lines, hard packed snow and moguls. Good skiers will aspire to ski bothÖ.. stylishly.
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Quote:

Iím not sure that new skiers are necessarily taught how to sideslip elegantly these days?

@Peter S, I think I'd have to agree. And isn't elegant side slipping not simply a manifestation of good and subtle edge control?
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Is it also a case of skidding sometimes being a side effect of nervousness, which results in muscle tension, which causes fatigue? I certainly find that the more relaxed I am the less muscle fatigue I get.
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@Peter S,
Quote:

Carving and skidding are both legitimate parts of skiing, arenít they? One is not better than the other. Both have their place, although Iím not sure that new skiers are necessarily taught how to sideslip elegantly these days?

Carving is great fun on wide groomed slopes where high speeds can safely be reached. Side slipping is necessary on crowded runs, fall lines, hard packed snow and moguls. Good skiers will aspire to ski bothÖ.. stylishly.


Nicely said......
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Depends on the radius of the skis you are using compared to the radius of the turns you are making. If you are just rolling the skis from edge to edge and pretty much allowing the skis to run at their natural turn radius you don't use much energy and the carving is what I would consider passive - you are just along for the ride as if on rails. However, if you are tightening into some really short radius turns you are gonna need to put some energy into the skis to bend 'em. I would call that active carving and it will burn eventually. You have taken charge of the blighters. Method 1 might take 4 or 5 long turns down a face method 2 might involve 20 turns down the same face. Do the maths ! Toofy Grin
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My snowboard is only fractionally older than this thread
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Peter S wrote:
Carving and skidding are both legitimate parts of skiing, arenít they? One is not better than the other. Both have their place, although Iím not sure that new skiers are necessarily taught how to sideslip elegantly these days?

Carving is great fun on wide groomed slopes where high speeds can safely be reached. Side slipping is necessary on crowded runs, fall lines, hard packed snow and moguls. Good skiers will aspire to ski bothÖ.. stylishly.


Yes, in the wild, or when the going gets tough, it's essential to be adaptable but I guess a lot of people who only ski nice groomed don't ever experience circumstances in which they need to change their approach. One of my oft-used get-out-of-jail-free modes on unexpectedly difficult snow (breaking crust or air pockets under hidden vegetation) is to traverse, kick-turn, traverse, kick-turn until I'm safely down without broken knees or legs. The kick-turn was first introduced to me by one Ken L (Hipennine on WH ... I'm sure you know him, Peter) at Glencoe probably 10 or 12 years ago when we ran out of snow above a rock band and it has saved my skin many, many times over the years since.
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Carving is SO over. Schussing is now where it's at.....................................................................................................
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Hi Ross, yes kick turns, not something you see very often these days. Hardly ever see anyone using them in lift queues. I remember contestants having to do one on the generation game, probably late 70s early 80s snowHead
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