 Poster: A snowHead
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| snowbunny wrote: |
davidof,
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broken one of his disks
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Was this injury a fractured vertebrae, or a damaged disc please? |
It was a rupture of the thoractic vertebrae n11... this means very little to me though.
He is currently paralyzed from the waist down, the accident happened in May in circumstances similar to those envisaged by ISE above... fall in a couloir.
I had a similar accident myself and wouldn't rely on a rucksack or rucksack with armour to offer good protection as they can get ripped off and move around a lot. For on piste collisions it might be quite a good plan though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| snowbunny wrote: |
davidof,
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broken one of his disks
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Was this injury a fractured vertebrae, or a damaged disc please? |
It was a rupture of the thoractic vertebrae n11... this means very little to me though.
He is currently paralyzed from the waist down, the accident happened in May in circumstances similar to those envisaged by ISE above... fall in a couloir.
I had a similar accident myself and wouldn't rely on a rucksack or rucksack with armour to offer good protection as they can get ripped off and move around a lot. For on piste collisions it might be quite a good plan though. |
wow. that's not good. I had a fall in Jan this year and fractured 2 vertebrae (l1 and l2). I was ok and fully mobile but it finished my season right there. It's stories like these that make me think a) I was lucky and b) I will be wearing back protection this year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, In lay terms, Thoracic Spinal Vertebrae 11 is just up from the bottom of the rib cage on your back. An Intervertebral Disc, fits between two vertebrae and allows movement. Easy to damage the discs as in "ooh I've slipped a disc". They can squeeze out, get herniated, press on nerves, all of which are horribly painful. Tell me about it!!
Diarmuid, Sorry to hear that you took at serious hit. Glad that you're recovered. I have been looking around at Back Protectors for a little while now, and the Dainese ones suggested by Masque and ise, earlier on in the thread seem to be the best around. Searched around for an end of season bargain, no success. Just waiting for the new stock to come into the stores. I will buy one.
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| snowunny wrote: |
| arcticfox, Interesting, thanks, 1st time I have heard of a backpack with this option. Can't find any trace of them on the Dainese sites though. |
Sorry been off snowheads for a couple of days due to an email issue.
I didn't see it available last year. I'll try and remember to check the model when I'm home this evening, and post it up.
On the very valid point that items in a back pack can cause damage to your back, I was very grateful for the protection in mine last year when I managed to land square on my back having badly misjudged a kicker. Sole result was one written off metal flask (could've been painful), and about three weeks of extracting the mick.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I hadnt bothered to read this previously (but right now, im bored) but some of the comments and stories are concerning..... is back protection the sort of thing that should be roped into the same area as a helmet? Given the damage you can do, it sounds like perhaps it should be!
Adam
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The specification of all CE approved armour is that it must be worn as close as possible to the body (area being protected) and when worn should not be able to be displaced from the area its designed to protect. So unless your backpack has some very substantial locating straps, it's a no go.
I reckon that any time you've got the chance of skiing at 50% or more of your ability, wear protection.
Anything sold by Aldi or Lidl etc. will have to meet German CE and/or TUV standards and will be good kit.
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The pack in question does indeed have significantly more substanial strapping than you would probably expect to find on an average day sack of its nature.
Unfortuntely there is now model indication on it, only the the Dainese branding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dainese seem to be very good after all their experience with bikes. All their stuff seems to be good quality - the only thing you have to decide is how much protection you want - you can get full waistcoats, kidney belts, back protectors. Ive got a full back protector that goes from the the base to the top of my back and it's really comfortable. Well worth it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Diarmuid wrote: |
wow. that's not good. I had a fall in Jan this year and fractured 2 vertebrae (l1 and l2). I was ok and fully mobile but it finished my season right there. It's stories like these that make me think a) I was lucky and b) I will be wearing back protection this year. |
Bad, at least if it is the end of the season - I tend to break things in May - you have the summer to get back on your feet (or not).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just to ask again..... what is the thought on back protectors? Are they rightly the reserve of those who are more extreme (as opposed to on-pisters) or should many more people consider wearing them?
Adam
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yeah I was wondering this too. As at the minute I am an on-piste skier. Venturing off-piste is kind of pricey when one thinks of the necessary equipment such as Probe, Shovel, Transceiver, Back pack, Some nice mid-phat or phat skis. Actually......... it sounds quite appealling as I am a gear junkie 
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You know it makes sense.
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buns, They seem like a good idea to me. I will be buying one for this winter. I ski largely on piste, and last winter I was hit hard by a speeding skier on my shoulder which broke my clavicle (16 weeks to heal). If that had been my spine, I seriously doubt that my recovery would have been so easy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What sort of injury do they protect against though?
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Poster: A snowHead
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marc gledhill, I would expect them to provide a first line of defence against disc/verterbrae damage, reduce bruising and provide some protection to the spine overall.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowbunny, induced by what?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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marc gledhill,
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snowbunny, induced by what?
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Collision, or impact by falling onto sharp objects like pole grips,skis,rocks, contents of backpack has already been mentioned as having the potential to cause injury
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I agree that they'd help with the sharpe object protection, but I can't see they'd be too helpful with impact protection.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
| I agree that they'd help with the sharpe object protection, but I can't see they'd be too helpful with impact protection. |
Wouldn't a protector dissipate the impact force over a wider area?
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spyderjon, yes, but an impact would mainly be from a person or the ground. Both of those items are fairy big, so the impact force would be over a wide area anyway.
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Id assume that if a person came at you, they could hit you with a shoulder/knee/elbow, in those instances spreading the impact must be good..... but as for the ground..... well (certainly for me) I cant see how back protection would help. I imagine that you would been to hit rocks or trees for it to really be worthwhile.... though, if the protector was quite rigid, it might perhaps keep your back straight (ie. not mad bending) in the instance of a tumble
Adam
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I think its more of a preventative measure for more serious injuries, than the everyday bumps and bruises we sustain on the piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm thinking of getting the Dainese Nextwave back protector but can't find any sizing info other than the following options:
1 = XS-S
2 = M
3 = L
4 = XL
You'd think a major brand like Dainese would publish a size guide etc. I reckon that I'll likely need either the M or L but I don't have a local dealer so want to get the size right for on-line ordering etc.
Any current owners out there who can advise the correct size for a 5'9"er with a 42" chest, 35/36" waist & 24" base of neck to coccyx?
The Epic guys reckon that Dainese sizes, being Italian, tend to run on the small size & that I'll probably need the large but I haven't actually heard from an owner who can tell me what they have relative to their size.
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The Dainese sizes are in last season's EB catalogue.
Large: waist 35-39, chest 42-44
Medium: waist 32-34, chest 39-41
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon,
I have an 05 core jacket that has the Nextwave protector as part of it (it's kind of a windstopper fleece with extra padding and a removable back plate), I'd agree that they do come up a little on the small side, my similar Northface Windstopper fleece is a medium and fits fine, my Dainese core jacket is a large and is still a little on the small side.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, Its, also relative to your waist size, Im 6ft but have gone for the medium because the large hung off me. The guys at Epic will say they come up a little small because American sizing compared to ours, comes up a little big!
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Another manufacturer that makes back protectors is UFO Plast at: http://www.ufoplast.it/visu.php?lang=eng&catalogo=Protezioni (Chaps, don't spend too much time looking at the introductory page...  ).
My daughter uses one of their back protectors, the junior version. My wife uses a Dainese. One tip, for anyone that gets one of these - Dainese or whatever. Always attach the velcro strips together when not being used, or they soon pick up fluff/dust etc and then movement while skiing/boarding dislodges the less efficient straps and position of the protector as a result.
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You know it makes sense.
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PG, Smashing Ferrarri Tractor !
These seem to be for m-bikes - are they the same or am I looking at the wrong pages?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderjon
The key measurement is the length of your back. They come with 5 7 or 8 pieces in the back protectors, best to try them on. Ive got a 7 shell but im 6`1 and got quite a long body.
Keep wanting to test mine with a cheap chair from ikea in a wild west bar room brawl style,
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Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody heard of these Polish protectors?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Doesnt mention CE mark so would be wary, plus for that money you should be able to find a dainese. Just give it a few weeks and theyll start appearing on ebay. Sure S&R were doing them for about 40 last year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| 2plank wrote: |
Spyderjon
The key measurement is the length of your back. They come with 5 7 or 8 pieces in the back protectors, best to try them on. Ive got a 7 shell but im 6`1 and got quite a long body |
I tried a Nextwave model back protector in M, L, & XL this afternoon at EB's Castleford. They all had 6 panels, just scaled down as the size reduces & with slightly different strap location points.
Still no sizing info on the box. The M was too short for me. The L felt good but the waist strap was too high. The XL felt just the same but the waist strap was better positioned & as it came a tad high up my back & went a tad lower over the coccyx area I plumped for the XL.
I wore it for a couple of hours on the slope & found it noticable when I thought about it but didn't feel it at all when actually skiing. The length seemed about right for me as the snow skirt on my jacket went just below it. I tried it with by pack when I got home & the top edge is about level with the top of my pack, about an inch below the shoulder line. I wore it over a base layer & under a shell jacket & ventilation through the protector was excellent.
Just found a multi-lingual booklet in the bottom of the box. Guess what, it actually contains a sizing guide for all of the Dainese products. Mind you it's difficult to use as the Nextwave chart is based upon waist to shoulder height & it's pretty difficult to figure out the where one's waist line actually is (especially on me!). If only it was based upon base of cocyx to shoulder line. That measurement for me is 64/65cm & the XL, or the NW Pro 4 as it's actually labelled, is 64.5cm long so I reckon that I've got the right size for me.
If anyone's interested in a Dainese product then PM me the model you're interested in & I'll send you the sizing info.
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I have one (full torso job), I don't wear it everyday just when I'm throwing myself off stuff. The girlfriend hates it when she see's that I've put it on as she knows it's going to be a hard day.
Depending on your personality they can inspire a false confidence... when I've got mine on I feel like Robocop and think less about the stuff that I'm skiing. This is a bad thing.
I always ski in a helmet, whatever the weather, and impact shorts. Impact shorts are one of the best bits of kit hat I own. Great for hip slides, sitting for extended periods in the snow (why?), drag lift protection and, of course, errant rear bindings looking for a little warmth 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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parlor, interesting about the impact shorts. I'm more inclined to buy a pair of them than a back protector - seems to me they protect a part of your body which you are much more likely to damage. Additionally, I always carry a pack with a well padded back area and containing a shovel, so I'm thinking that the pack plus shorts would have me pretty well covered.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dont forget that an impact where the shorts protect (but while not wearing them) could lead to broken bones and extreme pain, the same on your back could end up with you permanently paralysed.....
While shorts help on more occasions, back protectors are going to protect on the more life changing incidents.
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buns, true but it's a question of judging the risks though. I have landed on by backside, thighs etc countless times while skiing. In about 50 or 60 weeks' skiing I don't think I have ever landed on my back
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I understand the idea Buns, but, without tempting fate Arno, I'm with you.
It's a question of risk with the back protector. The worse thing is owning one and not wearing it everyday... imagine the missery of knowing 'what could have been'. Still, I mainly ski off piste and somedays in the park, and I'll weigh up the risk on each time I ski. I would never wear the armour everyday, it's just too cumbersome even though I've tried lots of brands.
I don't wear the impact shorts to stop me being paralysed, this is a comfort factor and I can't start to tell you how good they are. Anybody who's felt the impression of a rear binding 'heading home' will tell you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arno, I also normally wear a pack but, as ise has mentioned earlier, a pack doesn't protect the coccyx area & can move around a lot in a heavy crash.
My one 'big' crash (as opposed to the many little 'uns were impact shorts probably would help) was when I lost it off a jump on the Skier-X course at Saas Fee last summer. Landed on my backside/lower back from 8 feet of air & across my pole. Hurt like hell.
With my existing helmet & my new back protector (which I'll now also wear for race training) I've therefore followed buns's logic re protecting against the very rare but really serious injuries.
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spyderjon, i was working on the assumption that the shorts covered the coccyx (main reason for getting them - my backside has plenty of natural padding anyway...). if they don't, i agree that my proposed set-up is a bit flawed
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FAQ
here, my preference will now be to go for the separate back protector, to be worn inside my jacket . 
