 Poster: A snowHead
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So just back from Japan... i spoke to JAL customer service before flying and after a slightly painful few minutes explaining what i was taking with me (and speaking to 2 different people with different English speaking abilities), they said they would go away and investigate and call me back. About 20 mins later, they called back and put a note on my booking that it was all good. Top tip - call the line late UK time (first thing Japan time).
When actually on the ground in Japan, Tokyo - Sopporo flight was fine. Explained at check-in what was in the bag and referred to the note and they didn't even open the bag to check. For Sopporo - Tokyo, bag went through the scanner pre check-in and they wanted to see the cylinder and check with the supervisor, but ultimately were fine for it to fly. I get the impression they are seeing a lot more of them coming through the airport now (so much like Europe familiarity is making things easier!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a Rammut Rocker RAS system with 250ml cylinder of compressed Nitrogen. Last year, equipped with paperwork I passed through Heathrow and Zurich (flying Swiss) and return with no problems.
This year I contacted Monarch pre flight customer services and got a confirmation by email that it was OK to fly fron LGW to Friedrichshafen (Bodensee) and return with backpack as either hold or cabin baggage as long as it conformed to IATA rules.
I arrived at Gatwick with the backpack containing the disconnected, capped, cylinder all within my hold luggage and declared it to the check in staff. A few questions and a telephone call to security and I pass trouble free to Germany. I repeat the process on return - same declaration, (to attractive blonde check in lady), same telephone call and go for a coffee. Five minutes later I am called to the baggage handling area and told "ist verboten". I got out the IATA rules (Jan 2016), Snowpulse cylinder spec, Mammut airbag description and email from Monarch and explained all. Waste of time - "ist verboten". Saw supervisor, still "ist verboten", based on the fact it was greater than the 200ml. mentioned in the rules. I attempted to explain it wasn't a pyrotechnic system but still no use. So in a last ditch effort I took the rucksack out of the hold luggage and attempted to get through as hand luggage. Same result and I have to surrender the cylinder to proceed further, and, I'm refused a reciept.
At last I get to the departure lounge and proceed to write an angry email to Bodensee Airport. By now the same attractive blonde check in lady is preparing to manage the boarding check desk. She approaches me and enquires about my rucksack. I explain my tale of woe and she collects my paperwork and vanishes for 5 minutes. Amazingly, she returns with the cartridge and a message from security that I (!!!) should check the IATA rules before flying. Not sure whether to laugh or cry, but thank you attractive Monarch check in lady - you are my heroine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is not and never was 200ml restriction on ABS cylinder size in the IATA 2.3.A table (used to be a 250ml restriction a few years ago) but it does mention 200mg (micro gram) for the amount of material in the pyrotechnic trigger. It is so frustrating to continually hear of such lack of knowledge by airlines and airport security staff. I should not be our job to educate them but obviously there own training systems are extremely poor.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just got off the phone with Swiss. I was told that I need to fly with my ABS cylinder empty. Given that I have flown multiple times with Swiss with a full canister I am somewhat surprised by their response. I am writing to them and will update with what they tell me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@gorilla, are you flying long haul? For N America this would be the case, for Europe it is not necessary.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@sah, going to ZRH. Just got off the phone with the second customer services person. Am allowed to take a full cylinder. All is well with the world [/blog]
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Flew with my BCA Float 22 airbag on Small Planet Airlines from LGW to Grenoble. Notified Mark Warner I had an air bag. Packed the cylinder in my luggage and carried the pack as hand luggage.
No problems flying out. After checking in at Grenoble I was asked to report to information desk, where I was taken behind the scenes to open up my bag so they could inspect the cylinder.
Even though I had all the original documentation and packaging the cylinder didn't have stamped on it how much (volume) of gas was in the container. Apparently this is needed. The chief guy explained that if he stuck to the rules i couldn't fly with it, but he would let it go this time as he had seen plenty of these and was happy to let it go through.
I won't bother declaring in the future, as I didn't see compressed gas cylinders on the banned substances list at either check in (or perhaps I missed it!).
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I've never had any problem flying on Jet 2 and several other airlines with my Mammut snowpulse removable airbag system removed from the backpack; canister and airbag in the hold bag, using the backpack as hand luggage.
The latest letter (via Mark Warner) from Jet 2 (flying to Grenoble) asks that the canister is attached to the backpack. Will I still be able to get away with packing the canister next to (but obviously not screwed into) the removed airbag system and using the backpack for hand luggage, or will I have to put the backpack in the hold bag too?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
I've never had any problem flying on Jet 2 and several other airlines with my Mammut snowpulse removable airbag system removed from the backpack; canister and airbag in the hold bag, using the backpack as hand luggage.
The latest letter (via Mark Warner) from Jet 2 (flying to Grenoble) asks that the canister is attached to the backpack. Will I still be able to get away with packing the canister next to (but obviously not screwed into) the removed airbag system and using the backpack for hand luggage, or will I have to put the backpack in the hold bag too? |
The general advice from most airlines I've used is to keep the whole system together so that they can correctly identify it as an avalanche rescue backpack if the bags are inspected or x-rayed. Some airlines (actually it's airports that do the scanning) might get sniffy if they system is not entire - I ownder is some of the issues reported here are due to this? Lufthansa check-in at Munich were extremely clear on this for example, the whole system had to be together. When I spoke to BA I got the same advice. It's a bit of a pain, it's more space and weight in the hold luggage, but actually detaching the airbag from a RAS pack is a real PITA so I don't tend to do that anyway.
(With hindsight I'm not sure a removable system is actually that useful, I don't use my bag for anything other than skiing and I don't switch the airbag between different packs... ho hum, it's still a great pack though).
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@sah, Thanks, yes it seems the rules have changed, by default if not decree. Ah well at least Jet 2 give a 22 kg baggage allowance. And you are right reassembling the system is a right faff but a really good pack.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| @sah, going to ZRH. Just got off the phone with the second customer services person. Am allowed to take a full cylinder. All is well with the world [/blog] |
Hope it works out for you.
Last season I felt to Delhi with Swiss from Zurich. Both my and my mates cylinders were confiscated at Zurich, despite all proper packaging, in original boxes, with photocopies of IATA regulations etc etc, despite checking at check in that they were appropriately packed and accepted.
It's amazing. My pack is Mammut - a Swiss brand. Flying from a Swiss airport with a Swiss airline that both serve a huge amount of skiers each year (kit was even packed in our ski bags!), and they can't recognise and deal with important safety equipment properly. Swiss suck.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've just had a trouble free trip through Birmingham Airport with my ABS bag with canister and handle all as hand luggage. No problem at all, security knew what it was and "had one of these last week, it's fine"!
I had confirmation by email from the airport that it was ok through security, and I had all the paperwork but none of it was even asked for.
I'd left myself enough time to go back and check the bag in if I had to, but it was so quick and easy I couldn't believe it
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Used to take my Snowpulse, with canister, as my hand luggage. Ten return trips over the past 2 seasons through a variety of airports, only had problems with security on a couple of occasions but each time was able to persuade them it was covered by iata 2.3.a and then got through ok.
Until flying out of Newcastle at the end of November for the NtPSB. Had the clearest email I've ever had from easyjet explicitly confirming I could take my ARB as hand luggage, and check-in was no problem. Security however we're having none of it and were adamant that a limit of 100ml liquid trumps anything else. No way was I getting through with it, and had to go back to check-in and put it in my hold baggage.
Now just pack my snow pulse in my hold luggage.
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You know it makes sense.
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Possibly a silly question - flying with BA to Canada, and have had a note about airbags for myself and my wife put on our booking. However, I know the regulations say "one ABS per passenger". If we put them both in the same piece of luggage, is that normally ok?
Thanks!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mcloke, should not make any difference, it's one per person, there's nothing in the regs about baggage.
Just make sure you are not stopping off in the US at all, otherwise you'll loose your cylinders 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@mcloke, I am usually asked which item of luggage has the Airbag, but I assume that is in case later X-Ray check identifies something and then the luggage tag will tie it back the notes on my booking.
If it was me, I would pack them in separate bags, just to be 100% sure, or be prepared to repack at check-in.
In Canada, well Vancouver airport at least, airbags are non-events, as every time I have received a "That's fine" before I have finsihed my "I'm carrying a...." IATA speech.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What's the latest with EasyJet? do I need to inform them prior to flying or just check it into hold luggage?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kitenski, tell them, it's easy with EJ, just send mail.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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All went fairly smoothly with two abs in the same bag. Only sticking point was when they asked 'is it nitrogen', which threw me a bit. Wife piped up with 'I think it's liquid oxygen' but luckily BA didn't pick up on that! For future ref, I think saying it is nitrogen is good enough for them (though it is actually a bit more complex I think).
Thanks for your help
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mcloke, Do not ever mention oxygen, they'll have 40 fits!!! I once phoned BA to tell them I was carrying an airbag and for some reason the call centre person added a note to my booking saying I was carrying an oxygen cylinder. Well, it got their attention at least. I had a phone call from BA security a few minutes later... Luckily the guy knew all about airbags so all was resolved.
The cylinders are filled with nitrogen (well, mine is).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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EasyJet Edinburgh to Geneva - flew with ABS backpack as hand luggage with cartridge and trigger mechanism in hold luggage. No questions or issues either way.
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Jet2 Manchester Grenoble
I had a telephone chat with Mark Warner who the Jet2 flight was booked through, Jet2 sent me a letter confirming permission; the letter was insistent that the canister and bag had to be packed together so no using my empty snowpulse bag to carry hand luggage
Manchester Airport seem to have tightened things up a bit, I showed letter at check in and directed to special baggage (where you take your skis) where I showed the letter again. The special baggage handler was pleased with the letter and explained that otherwise he would have to tannoy the passenger as he had had to on occasions recently
Coming back through Grenoble (not the world's most streamlined airport operation) I showed the letter to check in person who called her supervisor. I had to take the ABS pack and cylinder out of my hold bag to show supervisor who checked labelling on the cylinder against the regs and tat it was contained within but not connected to the pack. All very courteous and well informed with apologies for heightened checks since the Paris terrorist attack.
So to summarise make sure you get written permission, pack the system all together in your hold bag, ideally at the top so you don't have to unearth in from your smelly used ski clothing.
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Just returned from Japan with my Pieps Jetforce battery fan airbag. No need to pre-register, no need to announce it at check in, and if it was detected by x-ray no questions were asked. I carried it in my hold luggage, but I am not sure I would take it as a cabin bag, as you may then be subject to an over enthusiastic security staff member.
Battery fan airbags are definitely the way forward for air travel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Battery fan airbags are definitely the way forward for air travel.
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Definitely true in the US, I suspect that days are numbered for cylinder systems over there thanks to their airline regs. In Europe it's not really a big deal, I've never had any problems with my cylinder airbag flying in Europe. You have to follow the rules, but I've done many trips with mine and never had any problems.
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Does anyone have the correct easyjet email? I sent a message to customer.service@easyjet.com
But just had a message back sayingThis message hasn't been delivered yet. Delivery will continue to be attempted.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Anyone airbagged on Cityflyer - the usually efficient BA system informs me I have to contact Cityflyer themselves and Cityflyer Ops themselves appear to be a buckpassing/non email answering blackhole.
I've been given phone nos of 2 people who are no longer in the business so far.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@kitenski, Think that address is correct, I received a confirmation for my airbag from it on 13 March.
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It seems Zurich airport are up to their old tricks (http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2468411&highlight=zurich#2468411)
flew back from their with Swiss end of March, and got home to find the standard letter in the ski bag saying bag had been opened, and the 'avalanche rescue backpack' (actually, just the carbon cylinder) removed.
We've flown thro' Zurich numerous times without problem, and not had problems. They let my wife's cylinder through no problem.
the rationale given is just an extract from IATA table 2.3.A 'the backpack must be packed in such a manner that it cannot be accidentally activate' - I'd always taken this to mean cylinder _out_ of the bag, and handle out, and both stored separately...
I can retrieve it from Zurich within 3 months for a 15CH fee...
I'll write to the various contacts on the provided, but not optimistic.
According to Zurich Airport: For reference
Zurich airport security: https://www.zurich-airport.com/security
Link to specific airbag transport instructions:
https://www.zurich-airport.com/~/media/flughafenzh/dokumente/passagiere_und_besucher/abflug_und_ankunft/leaflet_avalanche_backpack.pdf
Relevant extract:
"The cartridge must be placed inside the avalanche backpack in the compartment intended for this purpose.
• The cartridge must not be screwed onto the airbag system to avoid unintentional activation.
• Avalanche rescue backpacks are allowed in hand luggage or hold luggage."
Interestingly, IATA also permits the transport of
"Small non-flammable gas cartridges", containing carbon dioxide or other suitable gas in Division 2.2. Up to two (2) small cartridges fitted into a self-inflating safety device such as a lifejacket or vest. Not more than one (1) device per passenger, and up to two (2) spare small cartridges per passenger.
as either hold OR cabin baggage
as the IATA regs for airbags don't specify the dimensions of the canister, I think I'll start taking the backpack AND canister in as cabin baggage
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You know it makes sense.
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Never had an issue with our auto life jackets when going sailing - they go in our hold baggage. Mind you, a provincial airport in Greece probably doesn't have the same facilities for scanning as ZRH.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@hamilton, If you did not place the cartridge inside the backpack then you broke their stated requirements. So you have been 'fined' the cost of a replacement cartridge. I guess you were lucky not to lose both of them.
At least it proves they are actually checking the contents of hold luggage.
I'm not sure I'd ever want to try and get a cartridge and pyrotechnic trigger past the generic staff at security.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@hamilton,
"Interestingly, IATA also permits the transport of
"Small non-flammable gas cartridges", containing carbon dioxide or other suitable gas in Division 2.2. Up to two (2) small cartridges fitted into a self-inflating safety device such as a lifejacket or vest. Not more than one (1) device per passenger, and up to two (2) spare small cartridges per passenger.
as either hold OR cabin baggage"
It also states max size of such cylinders is 50ml, so way smaller than ABS cylinders.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On a general point, I'm a little unclear as to why it's worth getting into a discussion about the airbag system with check-in staff?
I understand why it's worth getting prior permission in the form of an email from the airline and including a copy of IATA rules with the pack - just in case security decide to take a closer look at the bag.
However, the check-in staff's view of the airbag seems largely irrelevant as it comes down to airport security (be that the hand-luggage or hold luggage teams) who will make the final decision on whether or not it flies ... Or am I being thick!?
I've only recently purchased an airbag system, but when I travelled last week I packed it in my hold-luggage along with a copy of an email from the airline confirming it was okay to fly along with the print-off of the IATA docs, and that was it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@abj, I could probably fake an email in 5 minutes from an airline giving myself permission to carry an airbag. The staff performing the x-ray search are airport security staff, not airline staff, and if I was doing the checking I wouldn't believe a printed e-mail. They are going to scan the baggage tag and check if there is anything recorded against the booking.
I always make sure that an entry is made electronically under my booking, and it is this entry I am confirming at the check-in desk, to close the loop. I haven't lost a cylinder as yet, but I have been called to customer services after check-in at Geneva to confirm exactly what the item was and how it was packaged. So at least some system had picked up either the entry under my booking or it had been detected by x-ray and checked.
Final point - So when you are asked if you are carrying anything on the prohibited items list either during the on-line check in, or at the actual check-in / baggage drop, do you say no?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Firstly, just to clarify that I wasn't trying to be argumentative  - it was meant as a genuine question as to whether I was missing anything with regards the check-in side of things.
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hey are going to scan the baggage tag and check if there is anything recorded against the booking.
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Like most others, I contact the airline in advance to have the notes added to my booking - so this should (in theory!) be covered.
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So when you are asked if you are carrying anything on the prohibited items list either during the on-line check in, or at the actual check-in / baggage drop, do you say no?
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The airbag system I use isn't prohibited (it falls within the IATA rules) and it would have been cleared in advance by the Airline and notes added to the system, so it has been declared. As for being asked about prohibited items I honestly cannot remember the last time I was asked this question!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Turin anomaly:
I usually but not always get the AB and cylinder attached to my booking and I always try to travel with the AB and cylinder as cabin luggage so that I can have the conversation with airport security with the bag there in front of us and all the IATA/ airline documentation.
No issues with this routine at Heathrow, Bournemouth International (love that!), Gatwick, Stansted or Grenoble, Lyon, Toulouse, Geneva, Chambery, Tokyo (HND,NRT), Sapporo, Vancouver but then we hit Turin (Torino) this month and everything ground to a halt - no cylinders as cabin luggage - "Don't care what IATA says, our Italian regulations say only in the hold" - or words to that effect. The Turin security guy was ace, taking me back through to check in our two cylinders as hold luggage (ABs kept as carry-on luggage). They gleefully popped BOTH cylinders into the same spare rucksack we had on us and checked them in. The security guard called down to his mate below decks to advise that there were two cylinders coming through - all sorted.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@PowderAdict, I don't dispute that I've not followed _some_ rules, my point, both of grievance and to highlight to others, is that Zurich's requirements are not consistent with other airlines. Their _requirement_ to carry the cylinder _in_ the bag is unusual, and in this case having the bags 'booked' with the airline made no difference.
@Sarge McSarge, the section of Table 2.3A _actually_ says: "Not more than one (1) device per passenger and up to two (2) spare small cartridges per person, not more than four (4) cartridges up to 50 mL water capacity for other devices (see 2.3.4.2)"
my interpretation based on common english is that the 'spare' cartridges must be 'small', and the 'other devices' cartridges must be upto 50mL capacity....
Maybe they define 'small' in the main DRG document.... Other cylinders (e.g. for aerosols, or medical), can be from 0.5L to 5Kg depending on type...
@Grinning, think I'll be following your approach from now on..
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Has anyone had success recently notifying EasyJet recently about carrying an ABS
I sent my usual email to customer services and got this unhelpful reply:
Dear easyJet Customer
Thank you for contacting us.
Replying to an email from us?
If you’re replying to an email we have sent you, thank you. During times of high volumes we aim to be back in touch in 7-10 days.
New enquiries
This email address is no longer in use for new emails.
If you are not able to make a change online and still need to get in touch, we will only be able to accept new enquiries via our online form. Please ensure you also visit our Frequently Asked Questions online.
EasyJet's website no longer seems to have a phone number or an "online form" that allows be to notify them re the ABS
Many thanks for any help
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for that, suffering a lack of gumption last night
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And they responded within one hour 😀
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FAQ
