 Poster: A snowHead
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Following the next two ski seasons, Eurostar is set to switch its London terminal from Waterloo to the new (still to be named) international station at St Pancras. This will provide a near-2-hour high-speed connection to Paris and a quicker direct journey to the Alps. That's good news for many skiers from the north but not good news for skiers from the south - here's why:
The completion of the huge interchange uniting Kings Cross, Eurostar, St Pancras, the tube lines and the Bedford-Luton-London-Brighton-Gatwick line (Thameslink) relies on the construction of a new underground Thameslink station at St Pancras. As things stand, Thameslink users have to get off at an awkward badly-located station called 'Kings Cross Thameslink', which is hundreds of yards from the major new station. Hauling a load of ski luggage from there to get on a Eurostar train would be a real hassle.
Here's the state of play, described in today's London Evening Standard. St Pancras Thameslink is a giant hole in the ground right now. The new transfer station has always been part of the scheme, but no funding for it has yet been guaranteed.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 5-05-05 11:57; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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david, there was an article in the Times this morning about this, apparently even if the money were forthgcoming now, the Thameslink station couldn't be finished before 2008, p**s-up, brewery, couldn't run, what a joke.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Integrated Transport Policy - my ar$e - but they'll find the cash for anything to do with transport for the Olympics - if the Games come to London.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One tip is that you can do most of the journey underground, through the tube station as it's all connected up underground. It's still a bit of a walk (though not much further than from the tube as the Victoria line platforms are very close to the Thameslink platforms), but avoiding the road etc.
There is a map, I think you can get, that shows all subways etc. around tube stations.
It's still a ridiculous situation though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't know if it will be open by then but if it is would Stratford be any easier for getting onto Eurostar for you ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Stratford or Kings Cross would be good for Hertford as there are direct(ish) lines to both (the Stratford direct link has been mooted but not confirmed).
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Typical Lodon based pap. What part of the South.....South london. Get a bus, a taxi, a tube, ok its not perfect but neither was Waterloo. St Pancras is very handy for Euston and Kings Cross and the other 800 miles of the country north of Waterloo. A bit more work for those inhabiting the 60 miles south but seems like a fair deal to me!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Drive to Ashford?
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Ohh, I've done that trek from Kings Cross Thameslink to the mainline station with skis (and boots, and backpack and handbag) and it's not fun!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It should of allways been built North of the Thames after all South of the Thames is not London 
On the same line (no pun intended) . I havent been to Paris for some years but isnt the case that you have to lug your gear across the city from Gard Du Nord to Gard du Something ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stanton wrote: |
| On the same line (no pun intended) . I havent been to Paris for some years but isnt the case that you have to lug your gear across the city from Gard Du Nord to Gard du Something ? |
Austerlitz. All of the snowtrains chartered by UK tour operators use Gare du Nord to arrive at and depart from Paris, but if you make independent arrangements and book a scheduled train you do have to cross Paris with your gear (better by taxi rather than negotiating the Metro).
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Metro Line 5 from Gare d'Austerlitz to Gare du Nord isn't bad.
Anyway, back to the UK. If Waterloo is handy for you and St Pancras isn't (my case down in Southampton), you should be able to nip across to Waterloo East and get a train to Ashford and pick up the Eurostar there.
Problems I can see: Waterloo to Ashford being slow; Eurostar not offering a price reduction for joining the train later but South East Trains (or whatever) charging you for Waterloo - Ashford.
Either way, the new service will not be any quicker for anyone living the Salisbury/Portsmouth/London arc and may even cost more.
I'm sure that the original plans were for Waterloo to remain and supplement St Pancras?
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You know it makes sense.
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I was seroius earlier, surely for most folk London is best avoided so go to Ashford.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you're coming into to Waterloo then (depending on trains) you may be able to pict up the Victoria line from Vauxhall to Kings Cross/St. Pancras. If you come into Victoria it's the same tube line.
Both Waterloo & London Bridge have direct Jubilee line link to Stratford (though London Bridge at least might be a hassle with skis & stuff). The biggest problem seems to be if you come into Charing Cross as that will involve a tube change as well. For reference the easiest change (from memory) is Bakerloo to Victoria at Oxford Circus as it's across the platform. Anyone who still lives in LOndon might like to confirm/deny.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| I'm sure that the original plans were for Waterloo to remain and supplement St Pancras? |
I would certainly hope so. All the engineering work in and around Waterloo will have been wasted otherwise. And of course, it's dead convenient for me. Anyone railway buff got the definitive answer on the future of Waterloo International?
| Quote: |
| Eurostar is set to switch its London terminal from Waterloo to the new (still to be named) international station at St Pancras. |
There's plenty of suitable names to choose from: Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt, Blenheim, Ramillies, Quebec, Plassey, Salamanca, Vittoria,... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skanky wrote: |
| Anyone who still lives in LOndon might like to confirm/deny. |
Yes, all correct.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar.org.uk, thanks. 
Don't get into London so much these days, and my memory tends to play tricks (mainly due to the activities I used to get up to when I did used to go into London regularly).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
There's plenty of suitable names to choose from
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The Folly
Fools crossing
Where?
Why?
St Blairs
St Browns?
Bliar International
Bush International
etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One of the reasons I try to travel light and hire skis. You are always going to have to hump stuff unless you go by car, it dosn't matter whether it is Gatwick, Paris or wherever. Even if St Pancras sort you out BSM or somewhere else will be a pain
And with the advent of more people going independant you will have to come to the conclusion that to
go on a ski holiday with a 50ltr back pack or trolley with pref' your boots inside is the way to go.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Oh, and kids either go inside the pack or carry their own....!!!
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laundryman,
Oooooooooh..!!!!
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| Quote: |
| You are always going to have to hump stuff unless you go by car |
Makes it cheaper I suppose, but I prefer to pay for my ticket.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skanky,
LOL!
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Pete Horn, I hear ya (am sitting in SO17).
Most SW trains services feed directly into Waterloo and therefore make the Eurostar very attractive c.f. flying. But, coming from Soton if I have to traipse across to St Pancras (BTW what's wrong with St Pancras as a name?) to get on the Eurostar, then it's as annoying as any other option but without the convienence of, say, flying to Paris from Soton.
Personally I would hope that Waterloo remains as a Eurostar terminal to collect & deposit people south of the Thames. But to do that they're going to have to make provision for a subteranean through-platform at Waterloo to take the trains coming in from St Pancras. I haven't yet heard whether there are plans for this. At present I can't see where the linkage would be - the current Eurostar terminal is exactly that: a terminus.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Manda wrote: |
| Personally I would hope that Waterloo remains as a Eurostar terminal to collect & deposit people south of the Thames. But to do that they're going to have to make provision for a subteranean through-platform at Waterloo to take the trains coming in from St Pancras. I haven't yet heard whether there are plans for this. At present I can't see where the linkage would be - the current Eurostar terminal is exactly that: a terminus. |
Once St Pancras is operational the Eurostar trains won't go anywhere near Waterloo. They are building a new high speed line which will go out to Stratford and then onto Ashford, avoiding South London altogether.
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Just found out that Northallerton Station is about 6 carraiges too short for the Eurostar to stop. Looks like I shall have to pull my suitcase and lug my skis 250 miles to St Pancras.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Just found out that Northallerton Station is about 6 carraiges too short for the Eurostar to stop. Looks like I shall have to pull my suitcase and lug my skis 250 miles to St Pancras. |
Isn't it easier to fly?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar.org.uk, Would that be to St Pancras Internatonal Airport, Gatwick, Stansted, or Heathrow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar.org.uk, yup I also heard the same.
From your link:
"This move [opening St Pancras/closing Waterloo] will bring many new passengers for Eurostar from other parts of London and south-east England, the Midlands and Yorkshire"
The cruelty of this, tho, is that the move will conversely automatically remove the easy Waterloo connection for the many existing passengers for Eurostar from the south-west. But I 'spose its a simple case of demand, really - the Kings Cross hub already serves a bigger commuter base than Waterloo, and will be even bigger when the Kings Cross/St Pancras Eurowhateveritsnamed Terminus starts functioning. Sigh.  Bang goes another almost-perfect connection from Soton to the Alps. At this rate, moving back to Islington could be on the cards..... Or a relocation to Ashford.
Incidentally I've always marvelled at the shocking planning that went into determining how the Thameslink (fails to comfortably) integrate with the underground at Kings Cross. It'd be nice to think that funding will be sorted out if only for the Eurostar but this is London we're talking about, so..... Anyone taking bets??
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar.org.uk, I would love to fly directly to The Alps but decent tour operators tend to have options of Gatwick, Stansted or Manchester, with Manchester (120 miles away) usually sold out. Eurostar would be a great option for us when St Pancras is finished. !0 mins to the station, 2.5hrs to Kings Cross, Cross the road, and onto EuroStar. I am truly sorry that some you Saaarf Laahndaners will be slightly inconvenienced when Waterloo closes but dont you think you have enough travel options as it is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Manda, Waterloo to Kings Cross is the same as we have had to put up with for years, but in reverse. This is what happens when you give the suberbs (of the country) power.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk, I would love to fly directly to The Alps but decent tour operators tend to have options of Gatwick, Stansted or Manchester, with Manchester (120 miles away) usually sold out. |
You should skip the tour operator and book directly. It will probably give you more flexibility. Isn't there a lo-cost airline which is nearer than Manchester - Newcastle to Geneva perhaps? Apologies if my geography is a bit off, but north of Watford things get a bit fuzzy in my mind! Or you could move to London to be nearer to transport links?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I would have thought a limited service from Waterloo is justified but I am not sure of the line capabilites from Waterloo to the main high speed link through to Ashford.
The high speed link in Kent was finished months and months ago as was the tunnelling through to Kings Cross/St Pancras but I don't think it is in service yet. Fortunately for me, Ashford is my nearest station anyway. I also think Eurostar is the best way to the alpes but cheap flights make the flight option worthwhile
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Wasn't there talk of a station in North Kent called Ebbsfleet, I seem to recall...anyway, it was supposed to be around Gravesend which would make it easy from the M25.
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Once upon a time they were supposed to bring in Eurostar connections to other cities in the UK I distictly remember Southampton being at one end of a propposed line, likewise additional stations in Europe I remember Strasbourg being one suggestion, unfortunately none of that has happened
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, I'm apauled at the inconvenience I will be caused by the shift of the Euro* terminus from Waterloo to KX-St.P. Mornington Crescent tube is a mere 3 minutes walk from here for a direct line to Waterloo. To get a direct line to KX I need to walk a full 8 minutes up to Camden Town 
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's weird innit? Eurostar trains are servoced u phere in manchester, but they never run from here. Wonder if I can hop on one while it's being serviced and cadge a free lift to the alps?
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