 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I've been visiting my local Snowdome (Castleford XScape) and each time I go, afterwards my bases look like they've been sanded and upon next visit my ski's feel like they are not sliding too well, plus the edges appear to have blunted making carving tight turns nigh on impossible without skidding 
I'm going to pick up an edge file on my next visit whch I hope will solve my edge problem but was wondering what to do about the bases?
I suppose I could take them in to be waxed every week, but I don't like the idea of the mounting cost and inconvenience of having to take the ski's in.
Is there anything out there I can pop on my bases that is suited to this sandpaper snow?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm amazed the snow is that abrasive. If it's causing that much wear to the bases I can't see that a softer coating of wax is going to help, because it'll be stripped so quickly.
Modern ski bases (made from sintered polyethylene) are actually harder than the extruded polyethylene that used to be used.
The problem you may face here is that the bases will wear to a level that isn't flush with the steel edges, causing a 'railing' effect when turning. I guess the only thing is to accept that the skis are for indoor use only and buy another pair you keep for less abrasive conditions.
Friction and heat have always been problems on plastic slopes, but this is something new to me. I would raise the problem with Xscape - in writing, preferably - and see what they tell you. It would be very interesting if you'd copy their reply on this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rockyrobin, you could try having them waxed with a very hard compound wax usually I think they are for the coldest temps and cost a bit more than the more general waxes, other than that I can't think of anything
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi D G Orf,
Sounds like your thinking the same as me with the wax. Only thng that made me hesitate on this was the temperature the wax is meant to be used at. The dome has an ambient temperature of -5 degrees I think. I noticed the hard wax you sprinkle and iron on is for -20 degrees and below. Would this cause any problems?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rockyrobin, I've never skied in a snowdome so I can't comment on the snow there but I have noticed the difference between natural snow and man-made snow. Man-made snow is definitely icier and 'grabs' your skis more. I think DG ORF is on the right lines, using a harder, colder wax should help.
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rockyrobin, you've the cart before the horse. The 'cold' wax is designed for use with abrasive crystals and labelled for use at the temperatures where such might occur in nature. All bets are off with artificial snow; the shape of the crystal is more of a function of how much compressed air is used to form it and thus depends on the snow cannon design. Another factor that makes for sharper crystals is when the snow is blown onto the piste directly instead of allowed to settle in heaps before it is spread by grooming.
You shouldn't have any problems at all unless the cold-temperature wax you use is highly fluorinated. Highly fluorinated waxes tend to resist later removal by either the hot-scrape method or solvent method. Wax after each trip.
Graphite or molybdenum additives may help, but (for us at least) 'cold' waxes that have these are a bit more difficult to find than the generic formulation. Given the choice of graphite/moly 'universal' or a regular hydrocarbon 'cold' I'd pick the 'cold' wax.
For the curious: I've never successfully 'stacked' a graphite uni wax underneath a 'cold' wax layer. The heat required by the colder wax generally burns the 'uni' wax or boils it off and the additive then forms cohesive spots underneath the cold wax layer. Very disgusting (and slow!) . Has anyone had success with this?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rockyrobin, if you're using Toko, then System 3 Blue over the entire ski, with X-Cold powder within 2cm of the edges would be my formula. Swix CH07 with CH04 or CH02 powder might work as well. (A nut grater is very handy for reducing bar wax to powder).
The JetStream is exactly the high-fluoro type I would avoid using. (Spendy and hard to remove from the unabraded sections afterwards). (The _per_fluoro bit is also confusing- where is the oxygen?)
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Oh, before I forget, there's really no need for solvent unless you're some sticky alien residue on there (pine needles/sticker adhesive/diesel). Wax with just the cheap wax once, scrape it off hot, then wax again and wait for it to cool off before scraping and brushing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rockyrobin, you mentioned taking them in to get waxed - don't bother. It's very easy to do yourself, and much cheaper. There are tons of threads in here about servicing your gear, but all you really need to know for a normal (i.e. not some crazy racing style) wax job is:
- drip wax on base by pressing it against a hot iron
- if the wax is smoking, turn down the temperature of the iron, so that it just melts without smoking
- "massage" the dripped wax into your base with the iron
- let cool for like 15 minutes
- scrape it off with a plastic scraper
- run a brush (steel or nylon) from tip to tail of your skis to get the wax out of the grooves (this step is sort-of-optional, helps with speed, but probably not necessary to just protect your ski bases at all)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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On an artificial snow slope it's not worth using the brush at the end or putting structure into your skis as both these techniques only really make a difference on proper snow and not ice crystals.
If you can get it and I've not seen it in the UK I think toko do a cold temp very hard race wax it's black but I can't remember off the top of my head what it's make up is, I almost resorted to using it this year in feb due to the very cold temps I was experiencing but in the end decided I didn't need to go any faster 
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You know it makes sense.
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D G Orf - I wonder if it is that Jetstream carbon powder race wax mentioned in my earlier post?
I can be very lazy. So even if expensive would be tempted if it meant I could go longer between waxes.
I ski 2 hours a week in the dome so would be very tempted for something long lasting if I thought I could get away with only doing once a month, just wizzing a file over my edges before going.
The thought of doing the wax job once a week is not so appealing when I could be in couch patato mode 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rockyrobin, no it wasn't a powder it comes in blocks just like the other regular coloured waxes, just went and looked on the toko web site
Dibloc High Fluoro grey, Molybdenum
Art.Nr. 5509206 5500410
A highly fluorinated Race-Wax with a high proportion of Molybdenum. It is especially suitable for artificial and old snow conditions. It is often used as a base wax.
You can use this wax as a base for the Jetstream products
Not to be confused with the Low Flouro version which can be used as a base for their HF range
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Poster: A snowHead
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rockyrobin, Please let me know how you get on with your waxing solutions as I've recently joined the Lions Ski Club at Castleford & will probably do between 2-4 hours per week & I don't want to screw up the bases on my new B5's.
Next time I'm there (either Sun morning or Mon evening) I'll ask the regulars what their solution is & will advise.
I've never done any home tuning but it looks like I'll have to learn pretty quickly.
BTW, when do you normally ski at Castleford?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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D G Orf, I had a looksee for that wax but this was the closest I could find:-
All-in-one Wax Molybdenum
Art.Nr. 5509771
This molybdenum-enriched universal wax improves gliding properties and contributes to the renewal of graphite bases. Can be used for all types of snow and temperatures.
PROPERTIES
weight 60g
optimized for temperature:
0 °C to -30 °C
optimized for snow:
all types of snow
Slush and rubble are selling this stuff off cheap. Would this be suitable just plastered on on its own?
Trying to keep things simple to preserve couch slouching time
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Datawax (www.datawax.com) do a plastic slope wax, which should be OK for artificial snow use.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon, Thanks for the offer to help gather info from the regulars.
I ski on my own and don't know anyone else who ski's there regularly so would appreciate the feedback.
I've asked the staff but they don't appear to be interested.
I'll let you know how I get on over the next few weeks.
Usually I go for a slide midweek in the morning/early afternoon.
Do you find it very busy in the evenings? I've always avoided that time as when i've been there when its been busy its been a tad too much with people charging down as fast as they can making it a bit dangerous for technique practice
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidb, Thanks for the linky. One for the bookmarks for sure 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rockyrobin, Have only done one Mon evening 7.30 to 9.30 session which was the race training session with the Lions. Slope was very quiet, maybe 30 users in total.
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spyderjon, Thats not too bad I guess. Maybe one day i'll give it a try in the evening if they start doing special offers on two hour sessions.
Currently looking at probably doing over £800/annum at Castleford. If I was doing it in the evenings I think I would have to cut down my hours
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rockyrobin, If you want to save some serious cash then join The Lions Ski Club (www.lions-skiclub.co.uk).
They meet there on Sunday mornings from 8.00am to 10.00am (they have sole use of the slope for the first hour) & Monday evenings from 7.30pm to 9.30pm for race training & ASSI instructor training. I've been going for a couple of weeks (although not this morning as it was a pretty heavy night last night & the Nurofen hasn't kicked in yet!) & they're a very friendly bunch.
Membership is only £25 per year & each two hour session is only £16 including free coaching if you want/need it & any hire gear from Xscape. That's a huge saving on Xscape's regular cost & it's stll a big saving if you claim SCGB memebership discount off Xscape.
They also offer a visitors price of £20 to enable you to see the set-up etc, although you can only go once at this rate before you have to join.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rockyrobin, I spoke to the Lions guys re waxes etc. They all seem to use/swear by either 'CH4' or, for even more protection, some very hard grey wax that EB at Castleford sells - but unfortunately nobody could remember it's actual name. Sorry but never thought to ask who makes the CH4 wax either.
Most, but not all agree with you re the wearing qualities of the Xscape snow. Apparently the best snow for min wear is on Sunday mornings as the snow is topped up on Sat nights. It then apparently gets worse as the week progresses. Those that don't agree with you seem do a fair bit of dry slope skiing & so understandably thought that the Xscape snow was superb!
BTW, I've had a close look at the bases of my new B5's. They had 12 hours use at Xscape & each ski has a patch of 'light grey' about 30cm long across the width of the ski, directly underfoot which I assume indicates wear/heat build-up & the edges are getting a bit dull. It look like mine will need a tune PDQ.
Hope this helps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, CH04 is Swix' green hydrocarbon wax.
rockyrobin, make sure that wax scraper is very sharp; you may want to get some polishing cloth like Fiberlene to get the existing ptex hairs off. It is a good idea to wear an apron- the hard waxes tend to splatter off the base more than the soft ones.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, I think we call those pads Scotchbrite.
Bit like a brillo pad i presume but in finer grades.
I'll keep an eye out for them next time I go round the DIY store.
Thanks
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