Skiing Badly - How to Rectify

A snowHead

When my skiing starts to fall apart, all too often nowadays, you know the sort of thing - skis wash out, find I'm on my heels rather than the balls of my feet, timing all shot, etc. I go back to performing long radius skating step turns. (I apologise if this is old fashioned terminology, I'm afraid I might still ski in an old fashioned way although I am trying to change).
I do find that 5 minutes of these long radius skating step turns, gradually getting shorter, helps me get back in the groove.
Does anyone else use a particular exercise or type of turn when they have a bad day?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I suspect that pretty much everybody finds that when the going gets tough, the tough start snowploughing. The trick is to move the point at which that happens so that it happens less and less often.

I found myself on a (to me) horrific blue-ice, steep, unpisted piste black itinerary earlier this year. A few stem turns, bit of a side slip, walkie talkie the old lady to tell her it would take longer than I'd thought, few more stems, etc, etc, and there I was, down in one piece, if not very stylishly. All part of the skier's tool box, as an instructor once told me (just before he did a large number of beautiful linked parallel turns down a step mogul field, naturally).

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boredsurfin, richmond, I must be really out of touch! Skating step turns aren't really a plough or a stem, rather the reverse.
To start the turn you commit onto the outside edge of your upper (inner) ski whilst projecting that ski away from the other ski on a divering course (as opposed to inner edge and converging ski of a plough or a stem), then ride the ski gradually tilting it onto its inner edge, then execute the next turn by projecting onto the outside edge of the new inner ski, etc.

Having said that it is very useful to be able to stem or plough when needed (I don't think there can be anyone who can say that they never plough!).

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Frosty the Snowman, and the beauty of skiing is that when this situation is reached, you normally end up in the resting position.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

John Scott, Hi John, I am 60 years plus and have been ski-ing badly for more than 30 years. It is my experience that when you are tired the body says " I don't want to go down there " and you intuitively lean back (well I do Blush

). This compounds the tiredness and with a pair of burning thighs! So when you feel completely blitzed, bend the knees, throw your arms and ski-poles forward in front of your body to try to restore your optimum centre of gravity and this should help. (well it works OK for me). Razz

After all it is free

skanky, couldnt agree more, in fact what DAVID SNELL, should have said is

John Scott, I know of what you speak, but that is not what I tend to do now. Instead, I do some "extremes" turns. I'll make a turn with my weight well forward, then well back. My weight on the inside skis, then the outside. Then, I dial the extremes down to the nice, comfortable middle ground that has me really in balance.

For me, skiing now, more than ever, is all about balance while in motion (what I call "dynamic balance"). So, to get it back, I work the extremes.

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I would try a Stenmark type turn and then get shorter and shorter, or do half a plough/stem in a straight line and weigh very quickly on each ski to get the rythmn going again... ideally done as warm-up turns at the beginning of a holiday. But these will not be of use if you are tired but stuck out the back of somewhere. In this situation I have a couple of stock turns that will get me down pretty well anything, a stem is one, and a little ecomonical jump turn is another. I have praticed the latter so I can use it even when very tired at the end of the day
Ideally you don't want to be in this position but sometimes you are. A rest and some energy intake might help as well. I don't want to be hungry or thirsty on the hill so will have something to give me a boost

Also, if you find you are getting a bit too far back for whatever reason in the middle of some linked turns, then a double pole plant helps pull things together. Again, not ideal but a helpful aid. And as much as I would like to think otherwise we can't be on-form all the time so a few tricks here and there are useful

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ssh, A bright light just went on in my head. Shall definatley be tryin that one when the fatigue sets in. Ta v much

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JT, those all sound like a lot more work than I typically want to expend--and they tend to be the opposite of finding balance. The double pole plant can help with that, though, I think.

I work towards the opposite end of the spectrum: I try to make turns with as little effort as possible given the conditions and terrain. Last Monday, at A Basin, as the snow softened in the bumps to spring conditions, I still worked on initiating my turns with a tipping of the downhill/new inside ski, using no lifting or any other "unweighting" to initiate the turn. This is much easier (but scarier!) than using a lot of up/down to try to "get down". Especially when tired, I think it's important to learn how to do this to conserve energy...

ssh,

Extremes are good Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

This might sound a little perverse, but when I'm getting tired and starting to ski badly, I tend to force myself to do large radius carved turns down the piste, which forces me to ski a more aggressive line, and so save energy.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

ssh,

I know what you mean but they really don't seem like it to me. I am very aware now about how much energy I use and a lot of that came about via these types of discussions. For instance I can blat around on-piste all day long on race type skis and don't feel I am at all tired whereas I can do two or three routes off the back of a hill and get very tired. I am trying to be very economical with my turns but sometimes the safe turn is the best turn for me even if a bit more tiring. It all depends, I have a few now

A snowHead

JT, safety first!

However, I find that keeping my skis on the show, even in deep, cut-up, or even spring corn keeps me more in control and thus is safer over the long run (pun intended). It isn't simple to make myself trust the turn, but it is easier when I do it well...

A snowHead

The half plough thing is good for weight because it is very difficult to do if not centred properly but so easy when you are
The other hints I mentioned are for use when you have to get the skis to turn. On piste weight shouldn't be a problem but if it is
then a lesson should be in order for that person. For most runs without any obstacles then just a centred position is enough.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I never do a half plow for any reason other than playing with a specific sensation. I think that it develops really poor habits (although easiski and I still need to have an extended version of that conversation).

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ssh,

I may have the technical term for this exercise wrong but its a well known if dated routine for short swings, I believe. but anyway
I need to look at that because I don't see how this develops really poor habits. as the point is to be centred properly in my view. Can you send me the link. I'll only look at it and will not have the same discussion again as you seem to been through all that with Easiski

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

JT, , ssh, & I have discussed ploughing before - I like it , he doesn't. However I think the sort of turn being discussed here is more like a stem step (or should be, if done properly).

A basic swing is opening the skis to plough, drifting them into the fall line and then finishing the turn parallel.

A proper Stem Christie is lift the uphill ski into a plough, accompanied by counter rotation; plant the pole and then lift in the new inside ski, and at the same time rotate.

A stem step is lift the uphill ski into a small wedge, no rotation and the uphill ski should be placed on the ground ahead of the (current) turning ski and place the weight on it immediately, allowing the other ski to become parallel by default. this is an old school racing turn, and is incredibly useful for all sorts of conditions, particularly dodgy snow or very steep pitches and/or narrow gullies. It's a very positive turn, using the edges of the skis, and personally I think it's brilliant. It is true that you can NOT do this well if not properly centred.

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JT, I'll find it...

easiski, none of which are a wedge christie by PSIA definition! wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ssh, Please give us the definition of the PSIA for a wedge christie. A what point do you teach this? Is it an intermediate turn like the basic swing or the stem christie or a more advanced turn like the stem step? Is it still used or is it passé?

After all it is free

i'm with david snell. when it's all falling apart I look down the slope and make a conscious effort to keep both hands in my peripheral vision all the time - that gets em forward. seems to help me get back in balance and pull it back together. well it works for me!

easiski, from the PSIA-Rocky Mountain level 2 skiing maneuvers paper:

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ssh,

Doesn't sound like the routine I was thinking off.
I got it from Jeff Stump who was demo'ing in one of his brother's films.
He used it to demonstrate sking moguls and it was just a drill to do as a warm-up.
The goal was short linked turns or short swings I believe. As i said I don't know the techical
term.

But that aside, the a mini stem is a useful tool is certain instances, I think.

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Maybe I'm just not very technical or plain ignorant but anyone else's eyes glaze over at definitions of different wedges? (or is that wedgies)

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slikedges, Yes, I feel like you. What on earth ( rolling eyes

) is the Gravity Zone?

maggi,

I think it's what one enters when one's ability to independantly control the relative linear and angular velocities and accelerations of each of the joints in one's body, while trying to follow the definitions in the book one is holding, is found wanting, causing one's bottom to come into conflict with the ground. wink

You know it makes sense.

maggi, "Gravity Zone" is the PSIA's politically correct term for "fall line"! Isn't that funny?

slikedges, don't shoot the messenger. I just have to know what it is and demonstrate it on demand... NehNeh

well, how would you describe a wedge christie? It's harder than you think. There is a real fundamental (and, ski education folks would say, critical) difference between a wedge formed by brushing out the tails of the skis and a wedge formed by rotating the femurs in the hip sockets. I find that wedge christies (by the PSIA definition) give a very accurate demonstration of one's grasp of the ability to rotate the two femurs independently, which can be a very useful skill in many on-mountain situations.

But, I never ski in a wedge christie except for demos.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

ssh,
Yep, its all about edges so it helps to know what you are trying to do. Hips and knees do it for me but I expect someone will say ankles.
Its either drop your knees or flex your ankles, same difference to me....

A snowHead

ssh,

It's not really impenetrable. wink

All ski techniques (indeed most biological motion) just seem to appear so much more difficult and complicated when described purely in text (unsurprisingly). rolling eyes

My definition of a wedge Christie would involve me, Julie Christie and a tight space.

A snowHead

slikedges,

Shows your age, that does.....!!!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ssh,

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JT,

That's right, folks. I'm barely pubertal!

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ssh,

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood, I was talking about a turn that someone might do when their skiing falls apart. If we talking about turns on very gentle terrain then I would suggest that skier's skiing has never been very together.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

JT, when my skiing falls apart, I'm likely to go find gentle terrain and work on a few specific skills rather than stay on the steep and deep.

If it has fallen apart enough that I'm having a difficult time getting down very challenging terrain (irregular snow, very steep), I will focus on one turn at a time. If I can get to groomed, I'll do the extreme turns, above. If I need to work on rotary, I'll likely do pivot slips on blue slopes.

After all it is free

ssh, thanks for the definition. Your wedge christie is clearly related to our basic swing, although you make biomechanical differences in how to achieve it. I haven't got the BASI definition of a basic swing but it is roughly this:
Extend your legs at the same time as opening both skis into a narrow plough - allow the skis to drift into the fall line where you close both skis while flexing to complete the turn. In the basic swing you must not (for demos) close before the fall line - harder than you think!!!

JT, This has gone way off topic - sorry. Sad

And to go back to the topic - Skiing badly, how to rectify - that's easy! Just go to the next EOSB bash and have a lesson or two with easiski.

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RachelQ, or swap your skis wink

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Skiing Badly - How to Rectify

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