 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"When you buy you also get 2 yrs insurance on damage, 1 yr on theft, several coffees, 4chf for ever 10km you came from home up to some max of course, three services and an age flexing 40 odd pairs of skis to find the flex you want (as hand made they differ)."
ise, are you being serious? That's quite a package of extras which I don't think any other ski maker gives you. Do they have details of this on a website anywhere, ie does the small print say you have to get them serviced in switzerland 
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| gregh wrote: |
"When you buy you also get 2 yrs insurance on damage, 1 yr on theft, several coffees, 4chf for ever 10km you came from home up to some max of course, three services and an age flexing 40 odd pairs of skis to find the flex you want (as hand made they differ)."
ise, are you being serious? That's quite a package of extras which I don't think any other ski maker gives you. Do they have details of this on a website anywhere, ie does the small print say you have to get them serviced in switzerland |
Stöckli are Swiss and so am I, of course I'm serious, that's the point of being of being Swiss  This is what's done here and applies to their Swiss stores since you buy direct from them, I have no idea what applies elsewhere. It's not particularly unusual, my car dealer operates about the same, we call it service in French but it doesn't really translate into English apparently.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Witness the blank looks one gets by asking for Stöckli or Authier in Quebec. |
Well, it took me a little while to place Authier as well, are they still going? This was headed by Zurbriggen sometime back in the 90's I think?
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If that is standard Swiss service which anybody can take advantage off then put Stockli's at the top of any list of 'must tries'.
Many techs would put them there anyway.
And since I am in Switzerland this week I will add the XL or SC to mine.
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ise, i have a similar problem , my stormriders are sitting by the wall teaseing me-(but i'm home now), i think i will have to put them in the cupboard or i will start thinking of one more cheekyweek somewhere (who needs time off in the summer anyway?)
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For the Stockli supporters .........
I've never been on a pair of Stockli's but have read reports from people who have. If the tester was heavy, liked higher speeds and had a good technique he/she was more than happy. Other less skilled or lighter people had a problem with their stiffness and low speed performance. In powder people tend to go for a softer ski, Stockli's have a reputation for being very well made and stiff. Doesn't the stiffness make them much more work in powder?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm new to them and have not had much chance to play in powder but they just love to let rip on piste and the cruddy stuff at the edges, at slow speeds you feel like you are holding them back,like riding a sports bike round town...do-able but you'd rather open the throttle (ps, i'm only 12 stone , or is that heavy ? )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I see Salomon and Stöckli at opposite ends of the scale. In general Salomon being the easy to ride softer ski and Stöckli being the stiff ski for strong/heavy skiers. Putting a 9 stone learner skier on a pair of Stöckl's is probably a bigger mistake than a 20 stone expert skier on a pair of Salomon pocket rockets. Many other ski manufacturers make a range of skis (e.g. Atomic do not just make race skis). Just wanted to point that out so lighter skiers don't go away from this thread thinking "Salomons are wet noodles, I want a proper ski, a Stöckli" and then not being able to turn the ski. Go for the ski that suits your level of ability, weight, but most of all the ski you will have most fun on for the conditions you ski. For some it will be the Stöckli Stormrider DP, for others it will be the Salomon Pocket Rocket, most will be somewhere inbetween these two extremes
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 11-03-05 11:23; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DB, I think your comments about stiffness may be why the Snakes are considered so good.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| DB, I think your comments about stiffness may be why the Snakes are considered so good. |
Top build quality, a soft shovel, stiff middle and a mid-sized waist could well give the best of all worlds.
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You know it makes sense.
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I see that the Snakes have an 80mm waist. I think most of the stuff I've skied on has been mid-70s or slimmer - would 80mm mean this is not too great on-piste or would it not be that noticeable?
Hey, did I mention that I'm going skiing tomorrow? 
gregh, thanks for that. I'd not spotted that on their site. I'll make a note of the shop.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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depends on the ski, but this is the list I did recently:
Sidecut 109/68/99 k2 crossfire
Sidecut: 114/80/108 1080
Sidecut 116/79/102 dynastar 8000
Sidecut 117/80/105 - Line Assassin MTX Pro
113/76/93 - Rossignol B2
115/78/105 - K2 Apache Recon
The 1080 is fine on piste IMHO, and the dynastar also appears to be fine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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alan empty, 80 is still OK on piste, but I wouldn't recommend it for slalom competitions (even though I have done one on 95mm waists). When you're on edge they will be great, just don't be expecting them to change edges as quickly as a 68mm waist.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DB wrote: |
| Doesn't the stiffness make them much more work in powder? |
I found the Laser SC perfectly adequate in powder (well, all 20cm we had that day), but demanding of close attention and faster feet than the Dynastar SC 09 on other terrain (slush bumps surrounded by hardpack).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB,
Good post re skier suitability. The reason I loved the Head Mi75 is because it outperformed the B2 IMO and didn't tire me out too early either. I rate the latter as a very important plus.
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my brother tried the new fischer amc's , couldn't get him off them or to shut up about them
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| alan empty wrote: |
I weigh around 11.5 stone, am 5'10'' and have been skiing for around 18 years.
At the moment I have a shortlist of:
Rossignol B2
Fischer RX8
Atomic M:b5
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I ski on two of these skis that you list (the b5 and the RX8) in the 162 and 165, respectively (and I weigh 180lbs). Of the two, I think that the b5 is more versatile, and it is becoming my favorite ski; I'm on it virtually every time I'm up and free skiing (I'm using the RX8s more when I am skiing slow and teaching, but they are still a supurb ski!). The B2 is a very different ski. The Elan S12 would be in that category. If you can find them, too, try the new Nordica Hot Rods (like the Top Fuel, which is getting raves).
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| alan empty wrote: |
OK, thanks again everyone. I thought I'd summarise my thoughts and see what you think.
Here's my list:
Atomic M:b5 (172)
Dynastar Legend 8000s (172)
Fischer RX8 (170)
Head iXRC 1100 SWs (170)
Head iM75 (170)
K2 Apache Recon (167 or 174)
Rossignol B2 (170 or 176)
Volkl 724 EXP (170)
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If my stones-to-pounds conversion is right (and you weight about 160lbs), the b5 in a 172 will be way too much ski for you. The 162 is more than enough for anyone who isn't a true expert and weighs near or over 200 lbs. At the very least, demo both sizes. The 162 is likely to be the right size in that ski for you. The others look OK to me. That's a bunch of different skis, though, so I'll be real interested to hear your notes once you've been on them all...
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| mistermouse wrote: |
| my brother tried the new fischer amc's , couldn't get him off them or to shut up about them |
For next year, I've heard good things about the AMCs and the Nordica Hot Rods. The new Rossi Zenith is a Metron look-alike (but without the beef of the b5).
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| DB wrote: |
| I see Salomon and Stöckli at opposite ends of the scale. In general Salomon being the easy to ride softer ski and Stöckli being the stiff ski for strong/heavy skiers. Putting a 9 stone learner skier on a pair of Stöckl's is probably a bigger mistake than a 20 stone expert skier on a pair of Salomon pocket rockets. Many other ski manufacturers make a range of skis (e.g. Atomic do not just make race skis). Just wanted to point that out so lighter skiers don't go away from this thread thinking "Salomons are wet noodles, I want a proper ski, a Stöckli" and then not being able to turn the ski. Go for the ski that suits your level of ability, weight, but most of all the ski you will have most fun on for the conditions you ski. For some it will be the Stöckli Stormrider DP, for others it will be the Salomon Pocket Rocket, most will be somewhere inbetween these two extremes |
That may not be true, Mrs Ise is a light female skier, she doesn't ski aggressively or quickly and she tested the SC's and loved them before I did, in fact I had reservations even trying them as I thought it was unlikely we'd like the same ski. She's a competent skier and may we be technically better than most skiers but she's nothing like the weight or power I am. The last ski she tried was the Salomon Street Racer which she disliked.
For an improving skier "proper" skis are good, they encourage you to ski better and that's pretty exhilarating, clearly it's not for everyone but the other end of the scale is the pointless lack of challenge where people have effectively given up skiing in any meaningful sense and meander around on a pair of blades with poles.
Also, I think there's been some misunderstanding about what Stöckli do, they make skis and bikes and have the usual accessory and clothing range, it's also a range of stores. They do sell via some dealers as well. The package I got with my skis was from an actual Stöckli store, I doubt somehow a dealer in Verbier does anything similar.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise,
That really surprizes me as the Laser SC from Stockli's web site quotes this
"CONSTRUCTION VTS II-Tip, SCR-surface, SCS, racing edges
sandwich-energy-race-system: wood core, double-titanal-fiberglass
The SC represents a new generation in Slalom/ GS skis. This is a dual purpose ski for the advanced Masters or FIS racer who wants an advantage, but only wants to buy one ski. This ski is flat out FAST and is tremendous as a GS carving ski. The ski has 28 laminates of wood and incorporates all the same features of the GS ski..
BASE racing-graphite, precision-swiss-finish, diamond-edge-tuning
GEOMETRY tip 107 mm, waist 63 mm, tail 90 mm
LENGTHS RADIUS 158/14 168/17 178/19 "
...... just goes to show you show you show always try a few skis.
Agree with you about "non-proper skis" presenting very little challenge. Learning to ski powder on a pair of Pocket Rockets was a great help for me, these "fun" skis have their place and serve a very good purpose sometimes but if you stay with them your technique may not improve.
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| ise wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| Witness the blank looks one gets by asking for Stöckli or Authier in Quebec. |
Well, it took me a little while to place Authier as well, are they still going? This was headed by Zurbriggen sometime back in the 90's I think? |
I was going to say Stöckli were the only Swiss manufacturer left, and then today in Zinal came across Movement whom I'd never heard of. I have to say they felt a bit lightweight to me actually.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, I'm so surprised that I'm not buying a pair for Mrs Ise until I see her on them again and she can convince me they're the right ski for her.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Movement having been getting some good reviews, not tried a pair myself, but they had some good looking powder skis!
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You know it makes sense.
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No..... but i love to ride my bike 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ise, haven't skied Movement; saw my last new Authiers in 2000, too damp for my taste.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gregh, I ski harder skis because they perform better at speed. Check out the suspension on a race car versus that of a road car.
My powder skis are a lot softer than my piste skis, in the same way that a rally car has softer suspension than a road race car
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hope you will be demoing these skis before you buy them.
Everyone is going to pitch in with their favourites but its your favourite that counts.
Salomon have made great skis - the Superforce and the Axendo Series spring to mind. I do not particularly like the X Scream or the Pilots - but I do intend to give the 1080s a go in due course.
Technical details- stiff versus soft, wood versus foam, are all very well; but it is how they behave when you are on them that really matters.
With 18 years experience you will have a pretty good idea of the ones that may suit anyway.
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WTFH, aha! Thanks alot, so we are kind of in agreement! I like a softer ski due to more off piste than on, if it was the other way around I'd be wanting to ski a stiffer ski. Unfortunately I'm a 1 pair of skis person, so I have to comprimise somewhere, hence the noodles
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| gregh wrote: |
| WTFH, aha! Thanks alot, so we are kind of in agreement! I like a softer ski due to more off piste than on, if it was the other way around I'd be wanting to ski a stiffer ski. Unfortunately I'm a 1 pair of skis person, so I have to comprimise somewhere, hence the noodles |
That's not actually what he said, he said his off piste ski had more flex than the on piste ones, so do mine (Zag big 84's). That's a long way from saying they're soft.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ise wrote: |
| gregh wrote: |
| WTFH, aha! Thanks alot, so we are kind of in agreement! I like a softer ski due to more off piste than on, if it was the other way around I'd be wanting to ski a stiffer ski. Unfortunately I'm a 1 pair of skis person, so I have to comprimise somewhere, hence the noodles |
That's not actually what he said, he said his off piste ski had more flex than the on piste ones, so do mine (Zag big 84's). That's a long way from saying they're soft. |
Ise, well spotted.
My Pistols are still a fairly stiff ski. They are not like Salomon SuperNoodles.
gregh how much time were you planning on spending off-piste? If it's 70% plus, then go for a thoroughbred off-piste ski, and make sure you get appropriate bindings, i.e. NOT Salomon/Marker/Tyrollia, etc. Either go for Rossi/Look turntables, or go for touring ones.
If you're looking for one ski does all, then I'd guess that you actually mean you spend around 25-35% off piste, in which case, go for a compromise ski or, as they like to call them "All Mountain". Rossi B2 or B3 would be a good choice.
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Hi WTFH,
Trouble is it will vary, on a boys trip to Gressoney for 3 days I'd be disappointed if not off piste for a min of 2 days, only using piste to get to some off piste, however on a family weeks hol I may spend 50% on, 50% off, and that will vary by the day, ie may get a whole day out with a guide, then another day spend the morning off piste, then afternoon skiing with the kid(s).
Hence I've been hiring the 1080 that has performed well in all the above conditions, on and off piste, tons better than my old Xscreams. Also tried Scratch BCs but couldn't get on with them on piste, detuned the tips and tails on one of them and a friend found them better. Also had a stiffer ski 2 seasons ago, the stiffer Atomic ski that was used for skier X, liked that ski on hard icy Eastern US pistes and a little in between the trees.
cheers,
greg
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yuck - detuning, how old school!
You should try some Pistols. They will outperform what you've tried so far in the off-piste, and if you've got the technique, they'll also outperform what you've tried on-piste.
Just make sure you get the bindings mounted in the right place, and that you are well aligned in your boots.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you'd been in Co this weekend coming, you might have seen a pair of Pistols, with me attached.
Ref the detuning, well, if you want to carve big skis, you need to be able to engage the tips, and if they have safety edges on them, then you'll just end up skidding.
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