Air bag refused on Easyjet

A snowHead

I have a Snowpulse air bag and recently tried to get official permission from Easyjet to take the compressed air cylinder on a flight either as hold or hand baggage; but was refused (see email below).

Has anyone else had any recent experience with Easyjet, either with Snowpulse or ABS packs?.

..and do you know what a 'customer experience champion' is?!

-I have already pointed out to Easyjet that Ryanair allow them: http://www.ryanair.com/hu/questions/can-i-bring-an-avalanche-rescue-pack
-I understand that if I pack the cylinder in its box and check it in as hold baggage without telling them I can probably get away with it since it doesnt contravene any security/safety regulations, but it would be nice if it was officially sanctioned by the airline

>Thank you for your response.
>
>I am sorry to learn that you are not satisfied with my previous response.
>
>As mentioned in the previous e-mail, I would like to inform you that the compressed air cylinder is allowed on the aircraft under the >medical condition only.
>
>I understand that it is not an unusual item and allowed with other airlines. However, I am sorry to inform you that easyJet does not >allow this unless there is a medical condition.
>
>I regret to inform you that I am unable to assist you further on this matter.
>
>I do hope I have been able to answer your question fully, if I have not, please click here and we will be more than happy to assist >you further.
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>Jatin Chanana
>Customer Experience Champion

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

i thought the point of snowpulses was that you can empty the cylinder for the flight and then fill it up again when you get to your destination Puzzled

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True you could empty it and refill it, but; 1) very few places provide this service outside of the major resorts, 2) it would take time and cost money, 3) it should be unnecessary anyway

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Redbeck, I have a snowpulse freeride and I'm flying with easyjet end of this month. I decided last week, after having read their restrictions and spending 30mins waiting on hold for someone to pickup, not to take my canister. Luckily this time i'm going to verbier, so I emailed snowpulse who are based near there, and they pointed me in the direction of a supplier in Verb. I've managed to arrange renting a canister for about CHF 25 for the week.

Previously flew swiss from heathrow (before the christmas day pants bomber attempt) with my full canister and spent over an hour politely negotiating with swiss desk and security. Same again on the way back from zurich. Swiss agreed when i flashed them the IATA table, but there seems to be no knowledge of these things at the moment.

Sorry it doesn't really help your case, but thought people might like to know!

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Just put it in the hold. They have no way of seeing it in there and won't pick up on it. They don't X-ray every bag that goes in the hold, they just get chucked on no problemo.

Might want to empty it for the ride home, but only if refilling is particularly cheap and easy.

Compressed gas can be dangerous, but the cylinders used for it are designed to take a whole lot of abuse before they fail, and the depressurisation and cold of the hold etc is going to make no sodding difference whatsoever.

I've taken numerous pressurised high pressure gas cylinders through airports and planes in hold luggage, usually by accident, and never had any issue whatsoever. If I did I'd just act dumb, like anybody else would, and happily empty the cylinder in front of them if required, apologising as I went and looking embarrassed.

Don't know what pressures you're working with on these systems, but the cylinders I've sent through pressurised were 200 bar. I doubt it's as much as that, so even lower risk.

Monium, ...it doesn't sound tempting to me.

The canisters cost 170 GBP. Pressure is 300 BAR.

If they do happen to x-ray the case after check-in and a canister shows up....what do they do then? Do they remove your bag and you from the flight (becaue you've violated their rules)? Or just remove your bag and you don't find out until arrival?

Either of the above would ruin the trip.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

FatTobes, In that case, the only real answer is to fly with somebody else - although it will probably cost more Sad

You can't force EJ to carry anything their T&C say is not acceptable, no matter what other airlines may do.

Of course any X-Ray would not show whether the canister was actually pressurised or not, and it also won't be EJ staff who look at any X-Ray (although they do have the right to search/X-Ray your bags themselves, it is incredibly unlikely they will - that is normally left to airport security staff, rather than airline).

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

alex_heney, Too true. I try to only fly Swiss, but am going with group of mates who all opted for easyjet....my hand was forced!

Also i'm guessing the airport staff would try to remove it from baggage if they had identified it? Puzzled

Hopefully airbags will get a lot more popular soon and this should help alleviate the issues.

snow reports

Nothing to do with Airlines. Its been illegal to carry ANY compressed gas cylinder on a flight for over 30 years (exceptions are personal airosols and one lighter in hand luggage). just look at the signs on the desk. Its an FAA, CAA regulation

Its been the bane of divers for ages. We too use small compressed air cyclinders for emergency inflation. We have to remove the valves, carry them empty and refill on site. Ours are designed to be filled from a normal diving air cylinder which is much easier to find

There is also an exception for the life jackets and emergency oxygen on board the planes

Its ridiculus, you have a cyclinder with a test pressure of 500 bar and they are worried a 0.5bar pressure change will damage it. It gets that at 5m depth and they go a LOT deeper. Standing on them, throwing them in the car or bouncing in the bottom of a rib on a rough day subjects them to far more, and diving cylinjders have to be inspected regularly and certified, so you know they are safe

If you google for the IATA regulations for dangerous goods you'll find canisters for avalanche bags listed explicitly. Pretty sure I found a copy from the ABS website (I have an ABS).

You are allowed to carry them only at the airlines discretion. Talking to some guides who carry them regularly they often take them without notifying the airline but carry a copy of the regulations for when the scanner picks it out and they get called at the gate to explain. Swiss seem okay with them. Don't know about BA. Didn't realise Ryan Air were explicitly okay with them, unusually enlightened of them.

FWIW I normally drive and you're not allowed pressurised gas canisters on eurotunnel but heck its harder to search a car so I just pack it well out the way.

Colin.

You know it makes sense.

"you're not allowed pressurised gas canisters on eurotunnel "

Tyres?
Air brakes?
Air suspension?
Gas Dampers?
Common rail injection systems (circa 15,000 psi on my landrover)?

They'd go out of business if inforced

IATA, is a travel agency, the regs are set by the Civil Aviation Authority

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Here you go:

http://www.abssystem.com/ click Facts and Air Transportation.

Mad mole, you're possibly thinking of ABTA, IATA is a very different beast http://www.iata.org/about

Colin.

A snowHead

I suspect Ryanair only allow them so they can charge you £12.99 as a surcharge....

A snowHead

Shame your experience was so negative, I posted on here at the end of November when I had no problem flying to Canada - with Thomas Cook of all people.

I *know* that EJ *could* remove it from your luggage as it contravenes their T&Cs, but they're not the people who scan the luggage - it's an airport agent / contractor. And as above, the IATA does permit ABS & similar bags to be transported via air. So if the baggage handling agents did find the canister they are most likely to let it through.

I checked with other ABS owners and when you tell the check-in staff, they have never flagged the bag as having "restricted items" - it just goes through as normal luggage. Which means they still have a risk of being x-ray'd and there's nothing to tell the x-ray people that the airline have given permission for the items.

I'm flying tomorrow again with mine and won't be declaring it. 1) It is permitted by the IATA. 2) There is nothing in my carriers T&Cs regarding the backpack. If they don't mention it then neither will I.

I am 100% sure that *if* they found my canister after I tried to check it in, they wouldn't just take the stuff out, I would be pulled up when trying to board the plane (or even earlier by men with guns in the States). At which point I'll argue the toss with them, FWIW, I carry a print out of the IATA guidelines.

Here's hoping you never need it anyway. snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

And there was me wondering what magic inflates the 300+ lifejackets that are stowed onboard ever airliner.

Is is magic pixi dust? or could it possibly be a small silver cylinder of pressurised CO2 gas similar in size to the one in your snowpulse airbag?

I suggest that you write back to Easyjet and ask them, perhaps it is pixi dust they use.

IATA exempts a lot of small volume cylinders.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Don't tell o'leary that they are being helpful or he will add canniisters to his charges list!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The ABS website gives the 2003 IATA regulations. The latest 2010 IATA regulations are available from:

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dangerous_goods/download.htm

With the specific pdf you need here:

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/74E76FBC-56B1-4333-B700-603D016FCA3E/0/Table23A_2010en.pdf

Its quite a list, but for avalanche rescue packpacks permission from the operator is still required even though they are allowed as hold or carry-on baggage.

Unfortunately Easyjets 'customer experience champion' still wont give a reason for refusing carriage.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Redbeck, it's up to Easyjet. There is no requirement for them to explain their reasons to you. They won't want to get bogged down with any protracted correspondence concerning a minority requirement for carry in air cylinders. That said, parlor's advice makes sense.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Next time, re-label it 'life jacket'. Same difference

After all it is free

I flew Easyjet with an ABS pack from GVA-LGW in January. Didn't ask in advance, but did print the PDF (the one that specifies it is fine in hold luggage) from the IATA site. Mentioned it at check in, showed them the printout (response was "Oh right, that's the same as in our big book of rules... Let me check.. Yes, no problem")and had no issues.

As Ernst says, they are fine about life jackets. If pressed, that's how I would describe mine. Don't mention the explosive trigger (it is totally harmless to flight safety, and allowed, but the language rubs them up the wrong way).

Maybe I'm just twisted but I'm sitting here half-expecting 7and2suited to post something along the lines of:

"There's no problem at all with this, it happened to my wife last week. She took it on as hand luggage, the plane blew up, but she just claimed for her injuries and a canister refill from the DWP when she got home".

Twisted Evil

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

After similar experience with EJ last year i have stopped declaring mine (abs bag) and so far have had no problems.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Result! Flew today with EasyJet from Birmingham to Geneva with an ABS pack in hold luggage. I used Fat Al's tactics of presenting the IATA PDF at check-in - saying 'I've got one of those in my hold luggage' - pointing at the Avalance rescue backpack entry. I held up the baggage drop-off queue for 10 minutes while the Servisair agent tried to find an EasyJet person to confirm it was OK. (I did have my brother-in-law on standby to take the cylinder home again if they said NO). Eventually, the answer came - that's OK - and the case even turned up on the carousel at GVA. Phew!

snow reports

Update: a result of sorts from another Easyjet 'customer service champion', they have now sent an email with the following:

"I would advise you to carry the avalanche rescue pack in the hold luggage."

I take this as an improvement on 'No, you cant take an avalanche rescue pack on board an Easyjet flight''.

The full email is copied below if anyone wants to quote it in their defense. Meanwhile, I'm going to see if they can put something a bit more explicit in their baggage regulations or FAQ, similar to Ryanair.

>Response (Anuradha Kashyap) 17/02/2010 04.45 AM
>
>Thank you for contacting us.
>
>I would like to sincerely apologize for the long delay in responding to your e-mail. As we have a huge backlog of e-mails because of the severe weather >disruption, we are unable to answer your queries on time. However, I can assure you that this is not of our usual standard and we are trying our best to reply >to all our passengers as soon as possible.
>
>I would advise you to carry the avalanche rescue pack in the hold luggage.
>
>Every item of standard checked ('hold') baggage will incur a fee. The online fee for hold baggage will be £9.00 per bag per flight(or currency equivalent). >Alternatively, you may choose to pay a higher charge at the airport. You will be advised of this charge at the airport. Payment of the fee provides you with an >aggregate allowance of 20 kgs across all pieces of hold baggage which may only be increased by payment of excess weight charges. The excess baggage >charge at the airport is £10.00 per extra kilo. Please note that you can save money by pre-paying excess weight online.
>
>However, if you pay for the hold luggage over the phone the charge is at £9.00 per bag and passenger. If you pay at the airport, the charge is at £18.00 per >bag and per flight. The excess luggage charge is the same.
>
>Please note that the weight allowance is not per item, but for all the luggage you want to check in. You cannot take more than 8 items of hold luggage per >passenger.
>
>You can also take one standard piece of hand baggage within the dimensions of 56x45x25cm. There is no weight restriction, within reasonable limits - i.e. you >must be able to place the piece of baggage safely in the overhead compartments without assistance.
>
>I have included a link below to more information on our baggage policy:
>
>http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Book/regulations.html#baggage
>
>I do hope I have been able to answer your question fully; if I have not, please click here and we will be more than happy to assist you further.
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>Anuradha Kashyap
>Customer Experience Champion

Anyone have experience of taking an ABS system on Lufthansa?
Just bought one (for my son, not me) here in St Anton and flying back on Sat. LH UK reservations said 'No' (and clearly had no clue what I was on about), but their website page (which sounds like a repro of the IATA regs) says OK, and it's not in the LH specific list of what you can't take, and a German reservation bloke said 'Ja, kein problem.'.
Still a bit apprehensive, and tempted not to mention it at check in.

You know it makes sense.

Things seem to be getting sorted a bit - I can begin to see what next years xmas present will be

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Well it seems like it was worth pushing Easyjet a bit on this. Here is the final word from our Customer Experience Champion, Mr Kashyap.

Air bags ARE ALLOWED on Easjet flights! Please feel free to copy them the email below if you have any difficulties in future.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Response (Anuradha Kashyap) 22/02/2010 06.26 AM
Need to update your question?

Thank you for contacting us again.

I would like to sincerely apologize for the long delay in responding to your e-mail. As we have a huge backlog of e-mails because of the severe weather disruption, we are unable to answer your queries on time. However, I can assure you that this is not of our usual standard and we are trying our best to reply to all our passengers as soon as possible.

I can confirm that you can carry the avalanche airbag as your checked-in luggage. I would like to inform you that you can carry non-flammable gas cylinder fitted into a life jacket containing carbon dioxide or other suitable gas and up to two (2) small cylinders per passenger, and up to two (2) spare cartridges are allowed.

I do hope I have been able to answer your question fully; if I have not, please click here and we will be more than happy to assist you further.

Yours sincerely,

Anuradha Kashyap
Customer Experience Champion

A snowHead

Lufthansa carried the ABS in the hold, no problem. The bloke at check in at Munich seemed not to know what one was. I had a print out of Lufthansa's 'dangerous goods' rules (which are the IATA rules, I think), and waited until the bags had disappeared onto the belt before mentioning the ABS. The check in guy seemed relieved that we weren't carrying ammunition (which is the item immediately above avalanche rescue systems (as they're called) on the list). He asked if it had any explosive in it (it has); I shrugged and said it was what is described on the document. He asked if it could inflate in flight; I said (truthfully) that it couldn't, and he was happy.

A snowHead

just a bump for the New Year to ask how folk have got on carrying either ABS or Snowpulse on Easyjet flights this year? Any issues at all?

I'm trying to decide between an ABS bag and a Snowpulse one, with ability to be carried on flights a key concern.

Cheers,

greg

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

may i suggest Admin send an email to these airlines and get them to clarify their position on this matter because it sounds to me that the airlines themselves have been caught out with the recent popularity of such apparatus

You need to Login to know who's really who.

kitenski, I posted my recent experiences with a snowpulse at Luton here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=70955

There's plenty more here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=67198

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Ha, love the "I am unable to assist you further"...

then...

"If your are not satisfied, CLICK HERE and I will assist you further"

ha, douchebags.

EasyJet are terrible for customer services, I remember they didn't even used to advertise a phone number!

You'll need to Register first of course.

I can't see how this is any different from taking an automatic lifejacket for a summer sailing holiday, which people have been doing for years. I've never, ever had a problem with a lifejacket, possibly because the plane is full of the things anyway.

I think perhaps the problem here is that many airline staff don't understand what an ABS is. If they should happen to do a bit of research, they learn that the thing contains compressed gas and an explosive trigger. The answer in these circumstances is, unsurprisingly, 'no'.

Pity the manufacturer didn't just call the ABS a 'winter lifejacket'!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Guess it just EJ taking the easy way out, ban them they don't need worry about them, after all it just comes down to the fact that they are EJs planes so EJ can say what is and isn't allowed on them, no logic or reason need be involved, their planes their rules!

I have just spent ~45mins on the phone to easyjet. Initially they told me that I could not take the cylinder unless it was for medical purposes even when I directe3d them to the regs on the ABS website. I asked to speak to a manager. The manager went away and checked a "database" and came back to tell me that provided the abs system had less than 200mg (Division 1.4S) explosive and was less than 250ml (Division 2.2) I could take it on the flight (London to Geneva).

http://www.ortovox.com/xfiles_a6/1383215515_124.pdf (for steel canisters)

I asked if he would send an email to me confirming this, which he agreed to do. (see text below)

Dear Alexander,

Thank you for contacting us.

I have checked the records and can confirm that each person is allowed to carry one (1) avalanche rescue backpacks. There are few basic requirements to be met.
I have mentioned details below:
• Pyrotechnic trigger mechanism containing less than 200mg net (division 1.4s)
• Compressed gas less than 250ml (division 2.2)
• Backpack should be packed in such a manner that it cannot be accidentally activated.
• The backpacks must be fitted with pressure relief valve
I hope I have been helpful and if you have any further queries in regards to this please do not hesitate to contact our customer service team on +44 0843 104 5000 from 08:00 to 20:00 hours UK local time.

Regards

Rahul Furtado
easyJet Customer Services

My advice for anyone who is initially refused is to remain polite and calm and ask to speak to a manager. So far, so good. Hope all goes well at the airports.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Or send an email to customer services, they always come back positive.

Help!!

Air bag refused on Easyjet

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