Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst browsing next years earlybird brochures, I noticed that a lot of operators are now featuring the two apartment blocks and Hotel at 1950.
Having been to a Canadian Intrawest resort this year, and having been pleasantly suprised, I was wondering if anyone had stayed at 1950 or even just been to see it.
If you have, what do you see as the pro's and con's - environmental issues aside.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was staying in Arcs 2000 two weeks ago - had a good look at 1950. It's well sited, looks like you can pretty much ski in/out of all the accomodation. There's a short cable car (Cabriolet) that links it to Arc2000 to get you to the main lifts.
Didn't look as if there was much night-life - but hard to tell as at the moment most of it is a buliding site - there were four or five tower cranes scattered around, lots of unfininshed buildings, etc.
The finished blocks did look pretty good - lots of balconies facing the piste, etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Warning! - "War and Peace" length post follows
marc gledhill, I stayed at 1950 in January and will return for a week in April - I like the place as it is now and it will get better each year as construction progresses but I must declare an interest as I own a place there - I'll still try to remain objective.
I agree with davehk regarding how well situated it is. The cabriolet lift between 50 and 100 yds from any of the 3 buildings currently open gives a ride of less than a minute to 2000 and easy access to the lifts at 2000 such as the Lanchettes, St Jacques and Varet. Even better, from the centre of the village, its an easy 50 yard ski down to the Marmottes and Bois De L'ours lifts situated right next to each other. Both are high speed six person chair lifts, with the Marmottes taking you up to more runs above 2000 and the Bois De L'ours taking you up to the top of the ridge from which you can ski down either side of the mountain, down a selection of runs back to 2000 and 1950 or the other side to 1600, 1800 etc. This piste map shows those lifts and the runs from them back to 1950 and 2000 and this the runs down to 1600, 1800 and Peisey-Vallandry. Skiing I would therefore rate as superb.
Building work is ongoing - three buildings are now open with the commercial premises of the fourth complete and the appts being fitted out. That will open in May. As davehk says, there are four or five cranes working on buildings five and six but there was not a lot of work going on when we were there probably because of the v. cold temps so there was little or no construction noise but the building work is something that everyone thinking of staying there should be aware of. I think the prices if you book direct reflect that though - here's the prices for this winter from which you can see a standard (club) size one bed place for a week starting 22nd Jan was 630 euros and no under occupancy supplement if you book direct - its the apartment you are renting - seems to me that UK TOs are not exactly passing that rate on.
When we went in Jan, only three restaurants were open though a fourth has now opened and at least one more should be running by next year. As I say, four buildings will be fully open by then and there is some suggestion that the shop(s) and restaurant(s) from the fifth will be open for winter 2005/2006 as well although I don't think that is confirmed yet. The restaurants are similar price to those in 2000 and the food was excellent standard but I think 1950 needs more by way of restaurants for families and kids and certainly needs more by way of "quick pit stop and go" type places for lunch. There is a well stocked Spar supermarket that we made good use of as well - details of all commercial premises in 1950 can be found here.
Accommodation is very high standard, bigger than the normal small size apartments you find in a number of resorts in Europe. For example our one bed place is 42m2 and one bed places go from 37m2 up to about 46 - as I say much bigger than most in Europe but not the kind of size I understand you typically get in the States and Canada so be prepared for that. All have balconies or patio areas some over the ski areas and others facing into the village. Have a look at the various webcams here and here. The second link shows the fifth building under construction at the moment. This pic shows the construction of the village with the "left" side mostly complete and the second half on the right hand side progressing - change the date at the bottom of the pic for other pics of the village.
If you are looking for night life then Les Arcs as a whole is not exactly rocking and at this stage of its construction 1950 is the same - there is a nightclub and pub open together with bars in two of the restaurants but when we were there it was pretty quiet in the evenings - we have two small kids so it suited us but not sure I would have been as happy if I was 10 year younger and without Mrs Bungle and the little Bunglers . Be interesting to see how it develops.
We used the Ski school in 1950 and found it excellent - max class size of 10 in group lessons and really good instructors - will use them again in April and thoroughly recommend them.
Not so good points were that the swimming pool in the Prince Des Cimes building is too cold (every owner I know is complaining to get the temperature increased). Some people have also complained that the staff are not as helpful as they should be although others have been very happy with them (as was I). We also had trouble with the water supply whilst we were there - the -24c temps apparently caused some fissures in the supply pipe to open up and we were without water for 36 hours plenty of bottled water supplied though and the problem was fixed and has not reoccurred - new buildings and teething troubles of a new resort I guess. When its on though the water pressure is great - nice hot pummeling showers and quick filling, steaming (full size!!) baths.
So in summary, I would recomend 1950 particularly because of its location and the accommodation standard and size but people should be aware that its a new resort and its still under construction. Already though there is a nice feel to the village (particularly during the torchlight descent on Friday night) and when its finished I think it will be superb.
Do I win the award for longest post of the week/month/season now
P.S. as requested, I've left the environmental issues aside.
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Also an owner. Off there tomorow at 7:30 for another two weeks. Starting to see some life in the evenings earlier this year, but excellent sound insulation means no disurbance of rooms.
Will report back on building progress and new restaurant on return, but agree with Bungle on comments re sizes, and convenience.
See family photos at: http://jjh.keysense.com/index.php?page=1&album_id=135
2 bed apartment 56m2, 18m2 balcony.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bungle, Thanks for the very informative post. I got the impression that all appartments were now pre-sold off plan, Is there a second buyer market yet?
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Bungle, that's superb thanks. I'm going to print it off and show it to the group I ski with - hope that's OK
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bungle, Thanks again I have sent you a pm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bungle & JimW,thanks for some very interesting info and excellent pics.
Now for the serious questions!
The French government scheme for reclaiming VAT - the way I understand it is - you can only claim the VAT back if you agree to sublet your apartment for 46 weeks per annum. In other words you can only use your place (for which you have paid top money) 3 weeks in winter, and 3 in summer. Is this correct?
Also, do you receive any guaranteed income from rentals? Are you pleased with the returns?
I agree entirely with Bungle's comments regarding the improvements: we visited Chez Luigi's bar last week for the first time and we were very impressed - the quality of fittings, the drinks and the service were superb. We couldn't get a table in the restaurant - it was packed out. We certainly plan to try again soon.[/code][/b]
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jamie, I couldn't tell you the exact details of the government scheme but in terms of Arc 1950, the standard lease options are 2 weeks or 7 weeks per year and if you want to stay for more then you can.
But....... you are charged 75% of the public price for every week you stay (whether they be in your 2 or 7 week entitlement or not) and that's deducted from the rent you receive. It certainly isnt true therefore that you can only use the place 3 weeks in summer and 3 in winter - in the standard 7 week option, two of those weeks must be in the summer.
In other leaseback schemes I have seen, you get say 6 weeks usage and a fixed % return (4.5-5%?), several schemes I have seen have different options - the more the weeks, the lower the return per year so effectively I guess you are paying for each week you stay in those schemes.
In terms of return at Arc 1950, there is absolutely no guarantee of any rent at all. On a one bed place under the standard lease now being used (it was a little different for the first two buildings but has remained constant since), you get total advance payments of 5500 euros payable quarterly (1375 euros per quarter) through the year and if the total rent payable to you (see below) is more than 5500 then you get the balance paid in March following the year end - that's also the time for you to repay if the total is less than the 5500 advance payments you got.
Rent for each apartment is calculated as follows: It is entirely dependent on the total turnover generated by renting the apartments in the leaseback scheme during the year in question - the hotel operator (HMC) takes their percentage (60% in the first year and 55% from year 3) and the rest goes into an owners "pot". That figure is then divided by the total sqm of all appts in the leaseback scheme and multiplied by the sqm of your apartment to give you your rental figure. Therefore the rent you receive is based on the size of your apartment and the total rent generated by all leaseback apartments during the year.
Owners in the first two buildings should be receiving their balancing payments by the end of this month but I don't know the figures (I am in the third building) - JimW has a place in building two so may be able to enlighten us more when he returns from his fortnight at 1950 that started today <grrr>
As you can see, the % figures taken by the operator are very high but they obviously take care of any problems in the apartments together with week end and mid week cleaning and linen change, electricity and heating bills are all paid, supply of cleaning gear, toiletries and as those that have stayed will agree, those fluffy dressing gowns can't be cheap either Also have on site reception and maintenance staff 24 hours a day so its a bit more than the usual "agent gives you keys and takes 300 euros security deposit at start of week and reverses the transaction at the end of the week "arrangement.
In addition, under the leaseback scheme they pay for the service charges on the apartment which I believe are about 60 euros per sqm. I found the charging for the apartment and % taken to be pretty frightening but was told that Intrawest have a % return figure for owners that they believe is a reasonable return and will be achieved assuming a certain occupancy rate (which they expect to achieve given their experience at other resorts). Therefore for x% occupancy with y% going to the operator and Z amount of service charges being paid by the operator (that owners would otherwise pay), you get R% return - if they were to reduce the charge per week for your stay or reduce the operators % take then something else would change such as they would only pay half the service charges etc etc.
Thinks that's about it. Better end before I get thrown off for over-long posting.
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Hey guys, we are going to Les Arcs starting March 14th to March 19th. Staying at Le Hameau du Glacier.
We exchanged our unit at Tremblant for it through Resort to Resort. We actually have it from March 12th - 19th but we can't get there until the 14th. First time skiing in Europe. Looking forward to it. Hope the snow
is good. Couple of quick questions.
(1) My son needs rentals. Where is the best place to go.
(2) What is the off-piste guiding at Spirit 1950 like?
(3) Should we pick up the groceries at BSM or is the shop in the village OK. Our car will be absolutely
jammed so don't want to stop in BSM.
(4) My cousin is taking the train in from Lyon to BSM. Is is best to take the Funicular up? Where should
I pick her up from.
Thats it for now. How's the snow?
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You know it makes sense.
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Hi Sawni,
Cant answer most of your questions as i'm going les arcs for the 1st time myself 19-26th march!
However we've been recommended these guys for groceries http://www.chaletfood.com/ they deliver,which takes out a lot of hassle
i'll be trying them myself
Have a good trip
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sawni
I live over the hill from Arc 2000 at Plan Peisey, near the new cable car which connects with La Plagne. I cannot answer your first two questions,but here's my suggestion for the last two queries:
The funicular from Bourg arrives at Arc 1600, which is over the hill from Arc 1950. There is a free Navette in daylight hours which runs regularly between the two resorts,which your cousin could catch. Alternatively,why don't you dump your baggage at your apartment in 1950 and "kill two birds with one stone" - get some groceries and beer from BSM and collect your cousin on the way back. There is an excellent Super U supermarket in BSM which I highly recommend (open till 7.30 in evening and, unusually for France, does not close for lunch). It is far cheaper than any shop up the mountain (or special delivery service!) and you have a much wider choice. It also has an excellent fresh fish counter and good fresh fruit and veg. The only catch is if the weather is bad! You can save yourself a lot of euros this way - which can be spent on much more interesting things up the mountain... Believe me, I have recently retired from 30 years in the grocery trade and I know the system. Not that it is rocket science! Just common sense really...
One final point - the weather is glorious at the moment - good snow underfoot after a few inches of the white stuff last weekend, and sunny skies forecast for the next four days according to France Telecom. When you arrive, listen to the weather forecast and piste report on Les Arcs radio at breakfast -time every morning, it's quite good.
Have a good holiday, I'm sure you will enjoy Paradiski, it's a huge system with some brilliant skiing both on and off piste
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks guys that's a wealth of great information. Depending on how tired we are (flying in from
Canada), we will decide on whether to get our stuff on the mountain or drive back down to BSM.
Hope the snow stays terrific, really looking forward to it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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as an aside to all the great info from Bungle, the nightlife in Arc1950 was good enough for me and the other alcoholics in the Bungle party that went to 1950 earlier this year. The Belle Pintes pub is lively, has a pool table and lots of tables to sit at. It gets a bit smoky in the evening but hey it's a bar! Great big 500ml's of beer were most welcome as was the vin chaud.
Happy Hour is 5:30 - 6:30 (same in Chez Luigi's) and you get a different deal depending on who serves you, can be a tad confusing at times but adds to the fun! One barmaid would give you 2 drinks for the price of 1, another would give you 2 drinks instead of 1 (so had to drink faster than usual ) and then another would give you 1 set of drinks at full price but then the next round was free!!!!
didn't get round to the nightclub was far too knackered after a heavy day's snowboarding, but looked good and reports said it was ok but usual pricey drinks...
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OK I'm back: it was a great 13 days with a 29 C temperature swing arcoss the two weeks: -18 on arrival to +11 on leaving. Which aint doing a lot for the snow conditions...
re some of the questions above:
Jamie, we have full government VAT relief for an 11 year leaseback of 45weeks (leaving us 5 winter, 2 summer) :despite the wishes of the family, its is difficult to get more than 5 weeks for skiing with with a full time job, so I'm happy with the deal.
sawni, Spirit 1950 off-pisting - very good (I thought anyway but you'll know that by now for yourself...) - they do a number of 1/2 day and full day tours e.g. I came down the Col Lanchettes into Villaroger yesterday morning. Although we did at one stage have a run in with the French gendarmarie or Park Rangers who suggested that our guide had strayed over the boundary into the Vanoise National Park - was the gully we were coming down in or out?... difficult call from the thickness of the felt-tip line on his map I would suggest. But a big no-no none the less.
Also as per Bungle - took his advice and went to Equilibres in 2000 for a much better deal on rental that in 'my' village. After email exchanges with both parties, got to a deal of EUR150 versus EUR260. And the differential in kids rentals was even greater %wise. Sorry, but it had to be done.
Apartment Rental payments: our 'deal' includes a fixed term rental income, irrespective of performance, of 1% of purchase price per annum for 10 years: ie we took a 10% a discount on the up-front purchase price, and this is paid annually from the resortl operator to the builder (Intrawest) on our behalf.
There is allegedly another 'bonus pool' available to owners once all the running costs and 'miscellanous sundries' have been deducted, however rumours from other owners I met do not give me any great hope that this year it is going to cover anything more than the cost of a beer.
Final phase appears to be only 1 or 2 bedroom places, and many will have been already snapped up by existing owners buying off-plan. Second user market is not being actively encouraged by Intrawest until all phases are completed, but they do intend to do something about it at the end of the development.
Some people are already looking to move out - not because they are unhappy, but their investment has made the capital appreciation they were looking for, and they want to move onto the next opportunity. I know of at least 3 possibly 4 places on the market (2 different owners) so if you are interested PM me, and I will pass your details on.
btw Intrawest are allegedly now looking to develop 3 more ski-sites around Europe (but not to the same size as 1950 - just adjuncts to existing resorts) plus 2x sun resorts, and the guessing game now begins - where??!!
Bungle, Mrs Bungle Glissland has disappeared! As if never there, except in our dreams. A one season wonder by the looks of things. Pleas pass on my condolences to the mini-Bungles and all the snowheads on this forum desperately waiting reports of mass tubing pile-ups. Sorry folks, we obviously didn't stump up enough euros last year.
On the other hand, the various evening entertainment in the Village is good, with the ski-instructors and darksiders doing some great tricks and leaps down through the village streets on Wednesday eve's. ONe word of advice: just don't stand outside Belle Pintes to watch, the run-out area from the last rail is v. v. short, and occasionally, too short.
Still some issues with my expectations of North American levels of service in a French resort (what was I thinking? ) but overall, I would still recommend it (and I'm not, honestly, not just saying that through self interest ).and it will get even better at the next few phases come on-stream.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks to Bungle and JimW for the excellent info on 1950,both financial and otherwise. It has made fascinating reading and I have really enjoyed the thread. After all the discussions, I have 2 big reservations -
1. 1950 is very high and it can be very cold there, especially in Dec and Jan. It is mostly above the tree line and in bad weather, the skiing can be a little tricky - head for the trees lower down!
2. Expense. It sounds a very complicated system of payment, with no huge guarantees of much rental return income in future years. You could probably make a higher percentage by investing on the money market,for instance. I know that ignores the pleasure which Bungle and JimW have obviously been getting out of their apartments. But there are alternatives....
MGM is a growing Savoie company which already has a large block in Arc 1800, near Hotel du Golf, and is currently building in Vallandry,near to the new Grizzly chair. They too work on central facilities, like swimming pools etc. and their standard of construction is superb. I have been impressed. They also have many other projects in the pipeline all over the Alps. It would be very interesting to compare, if Snowheads know of anyone who has invested with them.
Of course,the best way is to buy independently - but try and find anything really good! It is really difficult, as I'm sure many of you already know
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I have a small MGM apartment in Arc 1800. This is the first season we've had it, and so far we're very happy. It was more expensive than other ski in/ski out property in the resort, but as you say, it's a high quality development and the whole process has been pretty much hassle-free.
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Just resurrecting this thread as our group now has its grubby mitts on the flight tickets and is keen to sort the accomodation.
Many thanks to all the posters for the information, especially both Bungle, JimW, but I'm struggling to find an agency site that deals with letting on behalf of the owners. As we'd be looking for five apartments fairly close together I'd presumed an agency was my best course of action.
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marc gledhill, Aren't Erna Low the official UK agents for Arc 1950?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PG, yep, but the problem is that my mates bought the cheapest flights available, which are Thursday to Thursaday (9th to 16th Feb).
None too bright with that being (partially) half term, but I told them I'd see what I could do. No UK agents want to split weeks like that, and whilst I don't hold out too much hope, I was hoping that one of the "owners" agents could fit us in. There are 23 of us!
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marc gledhill, good luck!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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marc gledhill, Just checked and the campsite is full Very very good luck.
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You know it makes sense.
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My apartment is available for flexible bookings, but it is only for 4 people. I think you have a particular challenge to find accommodation for 23 people split across two weeks, especially at that time of year. It might be better to change your flight arrangements?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Try Socogest Immobilier in Bourg St Maurice. Not only do they sell properties,but they also act as an agency for many homeowners. I have the highest of regards for the company (small,privately owned), having dealt with them for a number of years on various matters. Phone them up (from the UK) on 0033 479 07 14 15 and ask to speak to Helene the co-proprietor. She speaks perfect English and if anyone can sort you out,she will!
Alternatively the campsite in Vallandry has recently installed 8 superb logcabins (various sizes). The Lanchettes campsite is very convenient - a free navette bus passes every half hour straight to the first lift in Peisey (under the new cable car). Patrick, the owner, is also very helpful but speaks very little English.His phone no. is - 0033 479 07 93 07.
Best of luck!
Jamie
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for all the ideas everyone. Unfortunately we had to resort to the usual method of digging yourself out of the crap - chuck money at it.
Paid the admin fees needed to change all tickets to Saturday/Saturday. Motto; NEVER let your mates, even travel agents, help you with your group bookings
And as an aside(ish) the best agency for dealing with Le Village 1950 seems to be Ski Horizon. They're faster, cheaper and better informed than the UK setups.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marc gledhill, Was going to suggest you buy 5 appartments to save on cost
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Marc,
sorry I didn't see all this earlier ( been a busy lad...)
If you or anyone else needs to book a load of rooms in Arc1950, then HMC the residence operators can work directly to you, and can organise all the apartments together. Best contact is florence.servais<at>groupe-hmc.com , or through their website http://www.hmc-hotels.com/site_uk.html-
Feel free to quote my name (Jim Wilks - apt 252) - I don't think I'll get a back-hander, but you never know!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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marc gledhill, for future reference, a dirt cheap way of doing this is via Renouveau in Bourg. Ok it's not ski to doorstep territory, but I would wager the accommodation/food would cost you a fraction of what you're paying! Everyone in quite decent standard 4 or 6 person apartments, or double rooms, for a pittance...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've heard that Will at the Flying Squirrel has some good deals for self-catering accommodation in Plan Peisey (see signature).
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flying_squirrel, I heard he also does dangerously good bacon butties in the bar.
PS if I were you I wouldn't hang around outside London Tube Stations in your outfit this year.
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kuwait_ian, too right.
RE: tube stations, I hear you on that one. Just got back from Peisey (working in the city for another summer) and the tubes are, erm, unappealling compared to the chairlifts and a mountain bike!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JimW, PG, thanks for that, but I booked back in June with it being half term week. I am looking forward to it though as it will probably be the main trip of next season, although my brownie point bag is pretty full at the moment so if another "Bash" arrives I hope to be able to come along.
There's the epic acadamy as well of course
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