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Brèche Nonne Evêque

 Poster: A snowHead
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A few days ago Dave and I skied the obvoius thin couloir in the middle of this pic



A few shots to whet your appetite....






There are loads more here
philingle.com

Phil
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wow - looks awesomly steep Skullie

sheer verticals Shocked


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 28-02-05 19:49; edited 1 time in total
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3 words:-

OH MY GOD! Shocked
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Looks super scary to me! Respect. Cool
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Wow.
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clearly one of the trickier blues in your resort - phew!!!!
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gulp Shocked
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Had a set squares next to the monitor and the slope appears to be around 60 degrees for the last picture. That is simply awesome. The 3rd picture shows the skier had one hand resting on the slope. It doesn't wet the appetile, It wets the pants.
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I couldn't even ski that in my dreams Shocked Much respect Cool
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Very much respect Shocked , now tell us all, did you break out of the assylum in order to do that as you are obviously quite mad if very skillful Laughing
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3rd picture

If the skier's hand is 1 m from normal ground level (with the ski on) and his hand was about 35cm away from the body then the slope would be 70 degrees. He was leaning slightly against the slope and so take away say 5 degrees that would make the slope around 65 degrees. Very impressive indeed. Let's us not forgetting the guy who took the excellent pictures too,
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philingle, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us how steep you feel that that slope was? What do you feel is the steepest skiable slope?
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Skied by JMB way back in 1984 on 210cm straight skis. Before the glacier the slope is a drop of some 490 meters over 500 meters horizontal.
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God that makes it roughly a 45 degree slope. Shocked Unskiable according to some?
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philingle, To say the least, I am green with envy! Only 2 days before I had been talking about a trip to Chamonix with a guide friend and he was suggesting some routes and guess what, that was one. I suspect the trip is just a pipe dream but thanks for keeping it alive.

I am aware of the 45 degrees for 500m + but what is the rest like. I suspect from what I have been told there are a few sections at about 50+. Also, how did you handle the bottom?

I looked at your site and there is a real mix of stuff I have skied and stuff I wish to! What's next? Whymper?
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I've just realised that I've got my steepness mathematics all messed up. Not that 45 degrees isn't steep, it is, but 65 degrees is a lot steeper.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
philingle, Been looking at some of your other decents and the one that sticks out is the line next to poubelle. Totally insain exposure! Radical!
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Kramer,

Your 45 degree angle is correct according to davidof's information. Say 500m vertical drop against 500m horizontal is a perfect 45 degree.

My estimate of 65 degree is based on Picture No. 3. It is very rough (like the body was bending a bit and the shot cannot be directly above the skier etc) but that agrees well with the 60 degrees one can measure with Picture No. 4.
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My IGN software gives me 540m drop over 520m length. The guide book quotes it as 500m of 50/55 degree skiing. I would have said it was a pretty uniform 50 with three slightly steeper steps in in that were about 30m in length and possibly up to 55 degrees in angle. As for the steepest skiable slope it all depends on conditions and length and exposure. If it is short enough and unexposed you can ski any angle. For a sustained slope with exposure i would say that 55 is about the limit with patches of up to 60. i dont know of any descents here that have a uniform slope of greater than 55 degrees.

For the record you can skin up to the backside of this couloir and there is a 60m boot pack to the top, but then you would miss out on the conditions analysing on the way up and would be pushing you luck a bit.

We came up a couple of weeks ago to try this line but were suffering from early season forgetfulness and were missing tools and helmets and were too large a team, but we did get a good look at it.

As for 'whats next' then that line on the Droits looks very tempting

Laters

Phil
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philingle wrote:
My IGN software gives me 540m drop over 520m length.
Phil


Pretty much what I said. A very steep sustained route.

What is interesting about these kinds of slopes are when they are skied. When Boivin first skied the slope at the end of April 1984 he would have done this because his big fear would not have been falling but avalanches. So people like Baud, Saudan, Vallencant and Boivin saw extreme skiing as a late (or sometime early) season activity. Their long, straight skis gave them the grip they needed on harder snow.

Now we have a better understanding of avalanches (although even a sluff or small ice fall on Phil's route would be fatal) and better equipment these routes are much more practical in the winter - when of course you have the relative advantage of powder snow.

It is worth remembering that some of Boivin's routes are rarely repeated. Hard then, hard now.
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You are obviously not from the North of England because if you were you would have skied down without helmets and just wearing t-shirts.
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davidof wrote:


What is interesting about these kinds of slopes are when they are skied. When Boivin first skied the slope at the end of April 1984 he would have done this because his big fear would not have been falling but avalanches. So people like Baud, Saudan, Vallencant and Boivin saw extreme skiing as a late (or sometime early) season activity. Their long, straight skis gave them the grip they needed on harder snow.

Now we have a better understanding of avalanches (although even a sluff or small ice fall on Phil's route would be fatal) and better equipment these routes are much more practical in the winter - when of course you have the relative advantage of powder snow.
Thought provocing stuff. I wonder how much this is also a reflection on changing conditions in the mountains. There seems to be far bigger gaps between storm systems which give the opportunity to see conditions stablise. maybe I am remembering things through rose tinted specs but back then fresh stuff seemed to be a little but often while today it seems to be a lot but less often.

Almost every serious decent I have done has been in the spring. Part of the reason is that access is easier. Skinning in deep soft snow or climbing as Phil is significantly harder than during the spring.

I also believe that we have a better understanding today of what makes the slope skiable. The true pioneers of extreme were really working in the dark and we have all benefitted from their knowledge. This even includes technique - moves that were considered revolutionary in the 70/80's are now taught to many.

What really has changed is that back then steepness was considered a barier and the danger. Now we know the limits it is now all about exposure and that is where I draw the line. Maybe its because I am older and have kids, but steepness now takes second place in my assessment to exposure. I am quite happy to ski extreme angles with low exposure (and hope I can still self arrest) while some lesser slopes with exposure I won't go near any more.
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By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over?
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richmond wrote:
By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over?


Exactly. Fr'example on Phil's route a fall just above the ice climb would be serious. There is also the risk of very very small avalanches or rock or ice falls from above having very grave consequences. Look at the deaths of Eduoard Baud or Alain Geleon last year, two professionals at the top of their game.

As another example a group of Grenoble skiers called the BLMS triggered a slab they described as no bigger than a king sized bed, this was in a steep couloir in the Ecrins. One of the skiers lost his footing and slid 300 meters suffering an open fracture of the thigh as hit hit the sides of the slope. He was maybe lucky, a whole season ruined but 5 other people died in avalanches that day in the same area.

ok it is cold but sunny here, so I'm off skiing now
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philingle, Its skiing Captain - but not as we know it...... Puzzled
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davidof, enjoy. Are you skiing the sort of stuff shown here?
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davidof wrote:
richmond wrote:
By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over?

As another example a group of Grenoble skiers called the BLMS triggered a slab they described as no bigger than a king sized bed, this was in a steep couloir in the Ecrins. One of the skiers lost his footing and slid 300 meters suffering an open fracture of the thigh as hit hit the sides of the slope. He was maybe lucky,.....................
IMO, that type of exposure is acceptable. What isn't is a route with a cliff 20 metres below that if you lose it, you go over the cliff. The route photoed above looks as if the exposure, for the most part, is OK although as has been pointed out, the exit is rather severe.

Part of the challenge is not only to be able to understand the risks but also to get your brain to accept your analysis! It applies in choosing routes and it might be preferable to ski a very steep (50 degree) section with no exposure than a less steep (40 degree) with outrageous exposure. However, standing at the top of the steep one is still brown trouser stuff even if logic says you are safer!!
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Whenever I look at those pictures I feel the need to lie down very flat on the floor Shocked
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Sorry Ian Hopkinson, this bit of floor is already taken (jelly-knees a gave way before I got to the climbing pix). They did it on what - skis? Are you kidding??? Shocked
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richmond wrote:
davidof Are you skiing the sort of stuff shown here?


I suspect the route is rated 5.4 (couloir 50-55 degrees); plus there is the short ice climb. It is too difficult for me. My comfort zone is to 4.3 (couloir skiing or very long slopes with short passages to 50 degrees).

This is what I did today:

http://www.frostybear.net/photopost/data/503/79dome.jpg

probably about a 25 degree slope.... max. I climbed the ridge on the right and skied down the ridge on the left. Still nice powder snow, warm sunshine and fresh air - ski rating 1.1!


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 1-03-05 17:40; edited 1 time in total
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philingle, what amazing photos ! jaysus - never thought i suffered from vertigo ....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Roughly how long does it take to climb up compared with how long it takes to come down (assuming that you don't come down on your @rse)?

davidof, the link doesn't work for me, and I'd like to see the 'photos.
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I have been thinking about this all day! Its certainly inspirational and at the same time, scary! 50 degrees for 500 metres is mindblowing. How would you compare it (if you can)with Poubelle. I guess poubelle is shorter, there are the rocks normally in the middle section and it is narrower but to me, the length of continued intensity must make this a significantly more challenging slope? It must also be a factor that you really have to earn your turns which, although there are obvious benefits, must add to the strenous nature of the decent.

For all the talk of steeps and exposure, the most pleasurable skiing this year was Heliskiing in Italy where we didn't really ski anything over 30 degrees (too unstable) but had really good powder for nearly 200 vertical metres. It doesn't have to be steep to be good. snowHead
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SimonN. in comparison to the Poubelle i would say that it is about the same width mostly. However when i skied the poubelle i fell and managed to arrest my fall. i dont think that i would have been able to had i have fallen in this couloir (apart from at the very top where it wasnt soo steep). I would say that there is a fair difference in the difficulty of the two couloirs. I am fairly certain that in terms of exposure a fall anywhere in this couloir would have ended up with you bouncing off rocks and being spat out the bottom.

Talking of good skiing not having to be steep the slopes that we skied from the couloir down were amazing smooth silky powder at an average jo sort of angle, much better skiing than the couloir. i would call the couloir bit more of a descent than a ski. the fun is in the challenge and the location. not in the skiing.

Some of the highlights of the day were sitting on the breche at 4 in the afternoon, 2300m above the stream of little black dots making their way down the Vallee Blanche before the clunk of the bindings and the start of the descent, chopping an ice bollard to abseil off while the sun went golden then red as it passed through the haze on the distant horizon and we were bathed in a surreal orange glow, and watching the sparks come of each others edges as we cruised an amazing untouched powder slope after all the hard work was over, and the bite of the cheddar cheese and branston sandwich that was my last bit of food for the day whose taste stayed with me till my first beer back in the valley. When we t back to town there was FIS race on at the slope at Planards and the crowd were somewhat amused when among all the lycra racers there appeared two disheveled looking ski mountaineers with big packs, and bigger skis on the piste.

Tomorrow we head up for another line wink

Phil
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Ian Hopkinson,
Quote:

Whenever I look at those pictures I feel the need to lie down very flat on the floor

If you turn your monitor on its side it looks like they are lying down.
philingle, No disrespect mate, but you are obviously completley out of your box Shocked
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philingle,
Great pics, look forward to the next route's pics as well

davidof,

Link didn't work for me either, anyone else with this problem?
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Davidof's link should work now, there was a comma at the end which screwed it up rolling eyes

His descent looks a bit plausible...i.e. I could imagine myself conceivable attempting it in a world where I was fitter and a better skier - whereas philingle's I really can't snowHead


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 1-03-05 20:45; edited 1 time in total
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philingle, please keep us posted. What you do looks fabulous but absolutely crazy simultaneously.
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