What do you expect a beginner to learn in week 1 (sideline)

A snowHead

kuwait_ian, Would you like me to put you in touch with an analyst friend of mine. I suspect you have some unresolved issues in your life............ wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Frosty the Snowman, group therapy needed - incl PG, ssh and Kramer. wink

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C'mon, guys, the quoting is therapy! NehNeh

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G'night, Gracie... Laughing

After all it is free

Cool - can we get it in glorious technicolour ??? With a bit of soothing white noise .... or the swishing of skis on spring snow. This ain't a forum it's an art form.
I feel better already. Cool

Frosty the Snowman, Ian Hopkinson, I'm seeing naked ladies. Shocked

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Kramer, that's grope therapy. wink

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kuwait_ian, can you provide any references/recommendations? wink

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Kramer, 6 hrs Ive been staring at this bloody screen, not a lady in sight Toofy Grin

Frosty the Snowman, that's cos you haven't paid your sub to Red Hot Dutch

You know it makes sense.

Blimey, just read through this thread. Good to see some insanity has returned.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Frosty the Snowman, I see naked ladies everywhere. It's both my blessing and my curse.

A snowHead

Frosty the Snowman, scroll up and down really, really fast... Laughing

Oh... and turn your head sideways... Embarassed

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I can't get any quotes to work recently, but am bitterly disappointed not to have seen Tom Cruise, Bode Miller or Rainer Shoenfelder in any of the nests! Crying or Very sad

ps: I wasn't looking for naked ladies!

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All - let's get back to the post and stop slagging one another off, please.

Can I suggest a similar situation here in the hope of crystalising your views??

Would it be true to say that...

If you believe the 'middle-aged' couple in Manda's post WERE adequately taught (ie the result is NOT a valid way to judge the standard of instruction), would you apply the same to driving instruction?

My point is that some people learn to drive to a MEASURABLE standard (ie the driving test) with very few lessons and others never reach the standard required - despite using the same instructors (some presumption on my part, I admit). If someone takes 20 hours of driving lessons and fails the test, do they qualify for a refund?? Not as far as I know - I certainly didn't!

For what it's worth, my initial reaction to Manda's post was that the couple had been 'hard done by' and a refund would be reasonable but, as I don't feel the same way about driving instruction, I'm confused now. Puzzled

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Red Leon,

Oh, bug! I've just read the second & third pages of this thread and now realise the original point is buried so deep in jibberish I probably shouldn't have raised it again.

Sorry! Embarassed

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This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend
THE END

After all it is free

Red Leon, the point of posting my description was NOT (despite some poster's assumptions to the contrary) to encourage debate about whether Snowheads can be expected to judge whether the learners had been hard-done by. It was to explain that the learners HAD been hard done by, and then to ask whether anyone has had an experience of shoddy first week instruction with EFS, and if so had they taken it up with EFS.

But only a few people were particularly interested in the point of my post.....as you have seen. You live and you learn.

Manda, in your opinion they had been hard done by, an opinion not necessarily shared by everyone.

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This is classic trolling. More fool me (and maybe one or two others?) to have allowed myself to be sucked in in the first place. rolling eyes

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Manda, PG will never take anything you say seriously until you start spelling ESF right snowHead

PG, Manda once said a post of mine was "absolute bollox", but I didn't take offence because I knew I was right! I don't actually think she is a troll, but she's just one of the more blunt/honest/argumentative posters here (delete as appropriate), and there are others I could name....

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Plake, go on, I dare you wink

It's all down to stats in the end. Just think on this - for "some people" 98% of posts are responses providing people with the information they seek, or general information to the forum. That can represent a helluva lot of time and effort. As for trolls, you'll rarely find a helpful post.

Manda, how do you respond to the accusation of being a troll?

You know it makes sense.

Kramer, yeah, I was partly hoping for other people's opinion as to whether they had been hard done by - although I stick by my conclusion that they were, and I'm annoyed that some posters appear not to like negative comments about ESF (ok, I spelled it wrong - shoot me), and accordingy try to undermine the credibility of the exercise.

Re: trolls - PG said he thought "it" was classic trolling. Dunno what he meant to mean by "it", but incidentally my originating post wasn't trolling. Plake said he didn't think I was a troll. So, Ray Zorro are you accusing me of being a troll? (oo er - Is THAT trolling? wink

)

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Manda, If you are a troll how do you ski? I thought trolls turned to stone if seen by the sun - or have you been here for the last few days where the sun don't shine? Puzzled

Frosty the Snowman, Another Doors fan? Little Angel

A snowHead

easiski, the wonders of very high factor suncream I expect, I understand vampires have a similar problem

A snowHead

PG, I don't think that is fair to dismiss Manda's comments as trolling, just cos you don't agree with them and she is prepared to argue her point. How do you reckon it is trolling? Personally I would have found your comment to be quite insulting.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I accept that you don't think it is fair. Perhaps the Courchevel avalanche thread might have been a better example.

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Ah, having now read that thread I can understand your comments PG. Trolling though? I don't think so, trolling involves an element of maliciousness whereas I think this is naivety mixed in with unfounded confidence/arrogance. I won't continue this discussion any further though, or contribute to that one - there's a lot I could say about tragedies but it's already been said.

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Cathy Coins, I'm not even sure the classic Internet/Usenet troll really involves any malice actually, it's just looking for a reaction which at some levels isn't such a bad thing. However, you're quite right, by any measure it wasn't trolling, it was exactly what you described as.

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I have seen slightly more inclusive definitions of the term, but of course you may well both be right as to the level of intent in this case.

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What do you expect a beginner to learn in week 1 (sideline)

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