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Riding on the flat--------WTF?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Please Help!!!!

Been skiing for a good few years, got ok at it, but going for my next level of Austrian Instructor this year... up shot is they are gonna make me board for it! Did a couple of days last season and, i think mostly because i have a rough idea how edges work in snow, picked it up fairly quickly, I can make it down steep red runs slowly, with a small amount of control and terror (i can also do a forward roll to start, interested pros out there, i'll teach u it later).

However, basing my vast experience on the hire shop blokes advice of point where you want to go and lean forward did NOT prepare me for the horrible (and seemingly illogical) experience that awaited me on the FLAT!!! I belted my shoulder, butt, knees, head and ego far too many times, I even got fired into a concrete wall (anyone who knows the ahorn abfahrt in mayrhofen may know the one)

Since then i have been offered advice including, press on one edge, press on both edges, stand in the middle, lean forward, lean back, go for it and shut up stick lover you're not man enough for boarding.

Please help me! how do i not die next time?

MATT
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
dulcamara, Think of your board as a flag and your lead leg is the flag pole, as long as your mass is passing through your lead leg the board will 'stream' out behind you. Do not bend or twist at the waist, keep your head up and looking where you're going but your body upright, relaxed and soft at the knees and you will run happy, true and stable down the fall line. The moment you put more weight into the rear foot than your lead it will act like a new flagpole and your board will try to whip around and fly off that . . . and you'll lose teeth. Once you're in balance it's easy to modify lead toe and heel pressure to turn the board left or right.

Just RELAX, head up and don't bend or twist your body at all so that you are centred over the board. Once you've done that you don't need much input into the board at all.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gently pressing your toe edge and then your heel edge helps, rather than keeping the board completely flat (not enough so that it starts a turn). If you have a slight edge in the snow then it means you aren't going to catch an edge (too much edge will take away your speed though)
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dulcamara,

I could try and help you by recounting my own experiences, but at this point it would mainly involve copy/pasting your post! Toofy Grin
I still hate flats although a little less scared nowadays (roughly 3/4 weeks into my snowbaording career...)
I tend to treat them as any other slope as much as I can and in effect try and do long linked turns (i.e. be only one edge at any one time..) . I think Masque's advice is the good one but I find it difficult to implement although I'll have to get to master it if I ever plan on taking a drag lift...

Edit: one the whole, as per Masque's post, the "head-up, centered and relaxed" is the advice most often given to me..


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 11-09-09 9:53; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Going to learn to snowboard in December so curious as to what issue you faced on the flat. Did you mean coming to stop compared to skiing?
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Masque, just went through your introduction to boarding thing, ridiculously helpful, thanks...

My question is less about turns, its for going straigh when im stuck on the flat cross overs, so i need my weight at the front, swapping between the two edges as i go?? I have also been advised to press my fron toe and rear heal, is that b*ll*cks?

actually TotallyBoard, answered my next question which was gonna be how do i scrub speed without stopping dead?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
thefatcontroller,

On a "steep(ish) slope, it is fairly easy to stay on one edge.... On the flat, not so, which means it's (very) easy to unexpectedle catch an edge...with ensuing pain in almost 100% of the cases... Toofy Grin

Flats are the beginner boarder worst nightmare: risky and you don't go as far as skier so often have to take a foot of the binding and skate...

Don't worry too much though, I doubt your instructor will take you to such areas and when you're on your own, you'll know where not to go in your resort.... Impact/protection clothing will also help a lot...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
thefatcontroller, boards dont seem to like going straight on the flat!!!

Kruisler, from a more intermediate point of view, how do you handle narrow cross overs (like roads)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
thefatcontroller, there's a few flats leading to your apartment in Arc 2000. Take lots of ibuprofen with you on that trip.
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rob@rar wrote:
thefatcontroller, there's a few flats leading to your apartment in Arc 2000. Take lots of ibuprofen with you on that trip.


Oh dear...

Laughing
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dulcamara,

I tend to look for the "steepest" side of the cross over and then try and link turns on as narrow a band as I possibly can/feel comfortable with.
This not ideal because of several reasons:
If the cross-over is busy, people pass you at very close proximity which can be off-putting and you got to "plan" your turns so as to not cut anyone off.
It does slow you down a bit so on long cross-over you might not reach the other side (my current solution for that is step-in bindings from APO)
If the cross over is reaallyy flat it is very tiring.

So really I need to master riding with the board totally flat. As i said, it will also help with drag lifts. And having boarded with people much better than me last year, I can also see the benefits: they go further and faster on cross-overs and are nowhere near as tired as me... Maybe one of my objectives for the coming season..
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
so (in theory) how do you ride totally flat, is it simply a question of balance and confidence?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Walk Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
dulcamara,

yep.... confidence is key because it allows you to be relaxed absorb bumps and more importantly edge catches. If your body is tensed any edge catch will through you before you can rectify things. if you're relaxed you've got a good chance to absorbing the catch and quickly adjusting the board. Being balanced also contributes to see this obviously...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
dulcamara, following on from what Masque said about flag poles etc, i tend to drive my front knee forward (along the line of the board) which helps to get my weight (edit - not really weight jsut pressure) on the front foot and more so it drives the outside edge of my front foot against my boot and therefore the front binding. All of this basically results in a strong front biased toe edge that allows the board to drive through all the little grooves in the hardpack that are just waiting to guide your board slighly against the line of your center if gravity - then bammmm, game over !!

With time you find that a having the front edge wanting to go one direction and the rear edge wanting to go the other direction results in the board going straight whilst still on the same constant edge - sort of paddling effect - which is getting a bit technical at this point in time.

I was stuggling a few years ago with the flat narrow path at Verbier back to the resort, very shaded and icy, low light, with huge mounds of cannon snow accross the track where the cannons had been running for days. I struggled but decided I that if I could not ride such paths then I had better pack it all in. Any way I took the first lift up the next morning and sought out every track I could find leading to this 'home run', and repeated again and again until I nailed it.

So alternatively man-up, practice, repeat, and take the hits - we all have done so - and nail it in the end Very Happy


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 11-09-09 10:18; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
dulcamara, you don't. You stay on an edge and ride in a straight line. Why would you want to ride with the board flat on the snow? You'd get less speed and have no control. Puzzled
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kruisler wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
thefatcontroller, there's a few flats leading to your apartment in Arc 2000. Take lots of ibuprofen with you on that trip.


Oh dear...

Laughing


Even on skis I hate the flat. Know plenty of ways of avoiding the flat in the 2000 bowl. Thanks for advice though on what this means. Cool
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DebbiDoesSnow, or maybe i should board with poles? that would let me keep upright and push myself along!!! or is that not the done thing??
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thefatcontroller, Kruisler, I find going as fast as possible some times helps with the flats - either you make it or you don't though Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Lizzard, because its one of Kruisler, s goals this season....

Quote:

So really I need to master riding with the board totally flat. As i said, it will also help with drag lifts. And having boarded with people much better than me last year, I can also see the benefits: they go further and faster on cross-overs and are nowhere near as tired as me... Maybe one of my objectives for the coming season..


This is what i mean, lots of conflicting advice
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dulcamara, it is just balance and relaxing. Nearly every problem when riding a snowboard is simply stiffening up in apprehension and looking down at your feet, these lose you balance and remove your ability to respond to the board's input to your body.

Try standing on one leg with your knee locked and you looking at the floor . . . now try it with your knee relaxed and you looking up and out.

make that your 'lead' leg

Get your balance right and over your lead leg and you can blast along quite safely with your board flat to the snow only needing to apply edge pressure to change direction.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 11-09-09 10:51; edited 1 time in total
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
so do you guys ever ride on the flat with your board flat or is it always slightly on edge?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
dulcamara, riding with the board flat really means having an ever so slight edge in most cases, I ride flat sometimes around lifts etc but very slowly and very carefully Very Happy
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try to edge it along as fast and as much as possible
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A few things to help:

Firstly speed is your friend: more speed equals more momentum so you're more likely to make it to the downhill bit. It helps here if you know the terrain giving you an idea of how fast you have to be and when.

Keep the board on an edge: this not only helps you not catch an edge which is easily done on the flat if you're inexperienced but also reduces drag so you'll go further. On an edge travelling onto a flat at the same speed you should out glide a skier.

A waxed board will help and in warm conditions some structure to the base makes a huge difference, when I got mine ground last season it was very noticable and I was getting over long flats that I hadn't got near earlier in the winter.

If you end up stationary there's a few things to help: short bits you can waddle the board bouncing on the tip and tail or scoot it by pushing your legs forwards. You can even crouch and push with your hands. You can get a tow off a skier or borrow one or two poles to push yourself with (off piste make sure they have big baskets). If nothing else is available you can unstrap and either scoot or walk. Finally, at the end of some off piste runs there's nothing for it but to racquette up and walk out.
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rayscoops wrote:
thefatcontroller, Kruisler, I find going as fast as possible some times helps with the flats - either you make it or you don't though Very Happy


I can see that being my motto. Cool
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
thefatcontroller wrote:
rayscoops wrote:
thefatcontroller, Kruisler, I find going as fast as possible some times helps with the flats - either you make it or you don't though Very Happy


I can see that being my motto. Cool


After a couple of edge catches at high speed, your commitment to that motto will be severely tested! Twisted Evil
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
dulcamara, It is possible to ride flat, but only on pow and fresh groomers. Anywhere tracked out and you run the risk of eating the scenary.

As said, keep on a slight edge most places. I prefer, wherever possible, a shallow rolling carve. And stay flexible.

The only time you should be riding flat is the moment before you pop off a kicker, most places.

As regards weight distribution, a snowboard is like a castor. Next time you're in Tescoburys look at the castors on the shopping trolley, and what they do. A snowboard does the same.

Putting your weight at the back of the board, on anything but pow, at your stage is inviting disaster.

All that, and practice, and confidence.

John.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BCjohnny wrote:
dulcamara,All that, and practice, and confidence.John.


you forgot bruised skin, ego & the walk of shame when it all goes tit$ up
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
T I T S not boobys
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DebbiDoesSnow,

I am glad you clarified, I got confused there for a second...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DebbiDoesSnow, Unlike Kruisler I am still confused, any more names please. I do find photos help explain things better so if you want to post some feel free. Madeye-Smiley
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Happy to oblige, here's a personal favorite

[]
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Talk about lopsided Shocked

and only one with a suntan . . .
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This thread is very, very, funny.

Like most, my most bone-crunching falls have been at 1mph on the flat.

Snowboarding is the most pig-headedly impractical method of transport for getting round a mountain.
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paulio, only on an icy cat-track.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

if I ever plan on taking a drag lift...

drag lifts are OK - just stand on the front foot and don't try to steer. Even I can do) easy draglifts but I'm scared of speed on flats because of the bone-crunching consequences of catching an edge at speed. I find that falling on an ordinary wide piste is not so bad now, because I go backwards off the back edge, or frontwards off the front edge, and it's not generally much of a drama. One tip my son gave me when I needed to keep up momentum on quite a slow flat bit was to get right forward, and down, so that my front hand was right down by the binding. His other trick - 'cos I am usually on skis - is to get me to tow him. wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Have you ever tried riding a drag lift the wrong way around. That's hilarious, give it a go.
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paulio wrote:
Have you ever tried riding a drag lift the wrong way around. That's hilarious, give it a go.


My favourite is the boarder who's nuked it hanging on like grim death (normally a T-bar, where you can grab each horn) being dragged up prone, to shouts all around of "Let Go!", mostly from the adjacent chair.

John.
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Saw a boarder lose 3 front teeth on a poma last season, that must hurt!!
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