Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Interesting News regarding the Eurotest

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
easiski wrote:
skimottaret wrote:
little tiger, Canada has decided the Stamp/Card is not needed for their members but AFAIUI australia is working hard to implement the requirements to get the Card for their top cert people, I may be wrong about the Stamp and LII's could still be eligible for that.


that suggests that even CSIA Level 4s might not be able to work anywhere they want .... certainly not in Europe, people should be made aware of this before they part with loads of cash for those expensive gap courses. Aussies also export ski teachers, like the UK, so will obviously be more interested in keeping the stamp/card


Don't know how I stumbled on this Puzzled but anyone considering the CSIA route, don't worry, ISIA is not off the menu if you need it: ISIA requirements.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
meeting minutes from the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding... http://www.basi.org.uk/docs/MoU_Meeting_Report_24022012.pdf

Looks like BASI signed up to this which is a pilot programme valid for about a year, about 200 spanish instructors seem to have gotten an exemption from the Eurotest and will be awarded the pilot Card.... see last page... No mention of the higher FIS point exemption previously discussed in Dec http://www.basi.org.uk/docs/EU%20minutes%20meeting%20report%20MoU%20ski%20-%2015%2012%202011.pdf

Although BASI should be involved with this it seems to me they spent a year of negotiations and now our L4 members can work outside of the FEMP's group of france austria italy germany. It will be interesting to see if this card has any impact on the working rights of L3 and L2 members within the EU.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimottaret wrote:
meeting minutes from the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding... http://www.basi.org.uk/docs/MoU_Meeting_Report_24022012.pdf


Beanie1 What does this actually mean for the membership?

Quote:

about 200 spanish instructors seem to have gotten an exemption from the Eurotest and will be awarded the pilot Card..


From the actual document
Quote:
As of 6 February 2012 holders of the diploma ... may receive a profesional card. It is understood that the current declaration shall not constitute a precedent for the treatment of profesional qualifications of other member states


This is saying that any Spanish instructor who holds the ISIA on the 6 February 2012 may receive a profesional card but this shall not constitute a precedent for the treatment of profesional qualifications of other member states

For all you legal bods out there; Can you agree that something 'shall not constitute a precedent' ?
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
stewart woodward, I have been told:

"It is essentially all about aligning the different highest level national qualifications across EU countries and only BASI ISTD’s are impacted – BASI Level 4 ISTD licences for next year will carry a pilot stamp and date."
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
beanie1,

Please do thank the CEO for his statement:
"The Legal Director engaged with a number of employment lawyers who kindly offered their views, and experience on the subject and provided relevant case law. It is this view which is presented in the letter."

Hmm... still does not answer the question of 'from what perspective were these lawyers requested to consider the legislation'. Were they requested to provide an opinion on whether the discrimination laws could act in favour of 'older' members or were they asked to provide an opinion which illustrated why the discrimination laws would not act in favour of the 'older' members.

I note that the CEO makes reference to "relevant case law". I would be interested to know which examples of "relevant case law" they selected, especially as this particular discrimination law was subsumed into UK legislation quite recently.

I would suggest that, as in many other BASI matters, this is not taken lying down. My recollection is that either Stuart or Skimottaret has already done some groundwork on this matter and it contradicts the 'awfully nice letter from the Chairman'.

Incidentally if this did go to law on the basis of age discrimination then the plaintiff would be pursuing BASI not the EU or the 'French'. Indeed, if there was a basis to positively discriminate in favour of the older learner one could take ones case to the European Court of Justice and attempt to get them to rule against the (current) position of BASI.

P.S. currently BASI a positive gender discrimination in favour of women.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Sorry, previous post should have finished with - P.S. currently BASI does have positive gender discrimination in favour of women.

Beanie1
Quote:

BASI’s statistics show that 19% of the people passing are over 30.

Well, we all know the saying about statistics.
Strange cut off age to select, why 30? Is that the age when BASI decides that someone is 'old' and if that is the case why do they not recognise it (by creating an allowance) or is it an age which creates a statistical threshold? Perhaps almost all of the 19% quoted were either 31 or 32 years old?

What it does say is that 81% of the successful candidates came from a 10 year age band (approx) but out of an age band which is over 3.3 times (approx) the size only 19% were successful. I cannot think of another situation where such a low rate of success over such a large age band would be trumpeted as a triumph. It should be a case of saying, "something's wrong here, what have we not considered that is resulting in these people failing".

On how many occasions did someone over the age of 30 or 35, or 40.... enter a Eurotest? And how often were they successful?
If you want statistics to be respected, present all of the statistics, otherwise the proletariate will consider the presenter of the statistics to be in the same category as politicians.

Not sure if BASI boasting about the 19% statistic is laughable or sinister.


Stewart Woodward
Quote:

For all you legal bods out there; Can you agree that something 'shall not constitute a precedent' ?

It means; within the little club that we have established we agree that this is a one off and we will not grant similar rights to another set of instructors who want to come and join our club.

However, within the law it means very little, that particular little clause and the specific circumstances of the Spanish instructors would result in it (the clause) being dismissed out of court. See Sharpestones judgement against the French over the Snowboarder.

Skimottaret
Quote:

Word is that BASI is about to sign a Memorandum of Understanding for the Euro Card very shortly

Despite the fact that this is apparently being fronted by the EU, the Memorandum of Understand should not be regarded as a Directive (law). What is happening is that the EU are trying to pull together the loose bits so that they almost fit into the same box, and that box is the the relevant EU directive. This Memorandum of Understanding will replace the old "Brussels Agreement" which BASI has been using for many years to protect the interests of those who are working as instructors in France.


Freshie
Quote:

The way this is handled is a bloody joke,and its illegal.

Good to hear another voice. Having read and followed this debate for a while it seems that there are 2 camps of opinion, one could be headed 'vested interest' and that, paradoxically includes those who wish to maintain or change the status quo and then there are those who have a more 'ethical' position, ie. the entire process is unfair, unjust and as you point out probably not legal (only a judge can decide that)

The vexing problem is that one part of the 'vested interest' camp seems to carry an inordinate amount of influence. The big question is how can the others go about changing that situation?

AND on the basis that if the Spanish are being given the nod for their instructors who have their highest qualification except for the Eurospeed / security test, your comments do prompt the question "Why is the same principle not being applied to those BASI members who have the equivalent qualification and are without the Eurospeed / security test"?

Flying Stantoni is absolutely correct to point out that the legislation does not enable the 'French" to demand that migrant workers are equal.
Quote:


Clause 14.b wrote:
The French authorities are required to take account of the professional experience of the migrant and to examine whether it is such as to compensate for any substantial differences in training.


Instead the host nation. ie, France, is required to prove that there is a substantial difference in training. Unfortunately the BASI Board has chosen to not pursue the wording of the Directive and instead has chosen to acquiesce with the French position which suits the select group who currently work in France, ie. the 'drawbridgepullers'.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I confess that I'm increasingly disillusioned with the situation and the gradual erosion of my rights to work as an 'Alpine Ski Instructor' in the EU. The ability to work in Europe, on Snow is THE reason I take the courses and pay my membership. At the age of 40+ I wonder at the point of paying for continued BASI courses to move through the system.

Instead I look after my own training and CPD in the hope that things may improve. That said I won't be laughing if the current 150 or so BASI ISIA members are granted a Spanish style exemption wink (There's an idea !)

On a wider theme, the premise of free movement of labor and the right to conduct my trade anywhere in the EU is plainly false, which is a disappointing realization given the number of European languages I hear in our high street.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Good points, well made Bindingcheck.

It would, indeed, be interesting to understand if, let alone how, any lawyer was instructed. I spend my time working with lawyers and very much understand that their job is to provide the best possible arguments against the position that a client wishes to take. It's not to offer up case law.

The Legal Director engaged with a number of employment lawyers who kindly offered their views.. is very nicely worded. It smacks of conversations down the pub with mates, rather than BASI having actually instructed a lawyer to build a case for a position.

The BASI view that 30 constitutes "old" is almost farcical.

If it were me, though, I'd go straight for Clause 14.b. If you can demonstrate having taught safely in a mountain environment - as stewart woodward can do - then there is no defensible position.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
beanie1 wrote:
Bindingcheck, it is my understanding there are a number of current and former board members who have passed the Eurotest, so your inference is somewhat unfair.


Have we ever had a Chairman of the Board who has passed the Eurotest?

Who of the current Board members, with a vote, have passed the Eurotest?

Gareth Roberts, Chairman ?
Joseph Beer, Telemark ? Not required so probably not.
Rachel Easton, Adaptive ? Not required so probably not.
Andi McCann, Marketing ?
Vittorio Caffi, ISIA YES
Benjamin Kinnear,? Not required so probably not
Correll Riddell, Legal ? Not required so probably not
Les Ward, Trainers ?
Heathley Clarke, Finance ?
Alexander Leaf, Alpine YES

My aplogies if you have passed the Eurotest and i have you down as a ?

Can someone also tell me how the snowboarders who were 'awarded' Carte Pro cards to work in France are safe as they have not passed the Eurotest?
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
FlyingStantoni wrote:

If it were me, though, I'd go straight for Clause 14.b. If you can demonstrate having taught safely in a mountain environment - as stewart woodward can do - then there is no defensible position.


Which document do you refer to ? I can (and have) demonstrated that, but so it's been of no help.

To clarify my position. I do not have an issue as such with the speed test or it being a component of the 'top' level of qualification. However it does seem unfair to split the times by sex but not by age.

I do have an issue with the gradual move in Europe towards the 'top' level of qualification being the ONLY one that's acceptable in order to work, and the loss of acceptance of the ISIA or a 'Euro' equivalent.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
AndAnotherThing.., Clause 14.b of the EU-derogation earlier in the thread (don't have time to look right now). Go onto the EU site and read the derogation. The original derogation is in French, but there is an EU translation. The language in it is absolutely clear about why the derogation is granted and what the French (and others) are entitled to imposed and required to do.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
FlyingStantoni, Cheers, will do. The only problem then is finding the £££££ to argue it in court.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Bindingcheck, good to see you re entering the debate.. I was somewhat dismayed that after sending in a a group letter to seek legal assistance from our association that the reply was so defensive in nature. The point of the letter was not a threat, but a request for help.

With the current negotiations with regards to mutual establishment i thought there may be an opportunity for BASI to bring to the negotiations an opinion that the Eurotest MAY be illegal and discriminatory and that modifications could be made to the test and an age allowance added to avoid potential litigation. At a minimum they could have added to the discussions this as a negotiating point like other nations made requesting complete (Spain) or higher FIS point exemptions.

I was going to abandon voicing my opinion on this as i thought this new EU card would cement the status quo but it turns out only a handful of nations / associations have signed this MoU for a one year pilot programme. The Battle is not lost as we now have an extra year before the pilot programme ends and the final Card comes in to play.

As some parts of the BASI reply have been made public here i thought i would publish both letters and the original FEMPs agreement.

Group Letter to BASI regarding Age Discrimination

BASI reply to Age Discrimination letter

Original 2000 FEMP's group agreement
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
stewart woodward,

Andrew Lockerbie, previous Chairman, has passed the Eurotest. I don't know about Gareth or the rest of the current Board, I'll ask.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stewart woodward wrote:

Heathley Clarke, Finance ?
?


Heathley is a Nordic Instructor, a Eurotest on Nordic Skis I'd have to watch.
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
beanie1 wrote:
stewart woodward,

Andrew Lockerbie, previous Chairman, has passed the Eurotest. I don't know about Gareth or the rest of the current Board, I'll ask.


I would have thought that that would have been the old format of a Slalom test rather than the newer much tougher GS test.


Stick the Chairman in the starting gate and let him set the time, if you beat his time you get the badge.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Spyderman wrote:

Stick the Chairman in the starting gate and let him set the time, if you beat his time you get the badge.


How about the guy who signed the agreement wink
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Haha had this with the french in ADH, some of the older coaches/instructors for ENSA fore ran to see how quick they were.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Not sure if there is much profit in pursuing the question of "who has actually passed the test", hard to know who has actually done the Eurotest especially as the test has existed in various guises for about 15 years now. The nub of this is the effect that the Eurotest has on 2500 BASI members and we need to avoid giving the BASI Board excuses to dismiss any valid points which are raised (and presumably passed to the Board by Beanie1)

Just read the letter from the Chairman which represents BASI’s defence of retaining the Eurotest as part of Level 4 and the excuses for rejecting an age allowance.

Quite simply put, his letter shows neither reflective consideration nor does it constitute a reasoned argument. It is merely re-stating dogma. However if one reads carefully one can observe that the need to use tenuous excuses to justify maintaining the status quo reflects concern that they (BASI) may well have been informed that they really are on a sticky wicket.

“We do not agree that physical performance necessarily decreases with age”. Note the word ‘necessarily’, it is a legal caveat, but the reality is that this statement is wrong. If it was correct then 45, and 50 year old sprinters would be able to contend at the Olympics – Alan Wells step forward please, and Lord Coe would be competing not organising. Extrapolate the statement further and an octogenarian could “with training & dedication” be successful at a Eurotest. Ahh, now I understand.. the Eurotest is a test of training and dedication…..
Even without phoning an exercise physiologist friend one can see the flaw in the Chairman’s statement. p.s. only read research papers on the internet, not an amazing story of how Joe Bloggs ran a great marathon and, compare like with like, ie. running on the flat or swimming is not the same as skiing GS, basketball or soccer would be better, but not matching, comparators. On the other hand if the opener was a previously elite 50 year old and the aspirant was a fifty year old then 18% of that time would be reasonable.

“Our own statistics show that there is no correlation between age and the pass rate and 19% of people passing the Test have been over 30.”
Excuse me… if there was no correlation then the percentage of 20/30 year olds who passed would be the same as the percentage of 30/40 year olds, or 40/50 year olds, or 50/60 year olds, who passed. This statement is absolute nonsense and whoever wrote it should be ashamed.

The third paragraph is quite interesting for 3 reasons. It starts with “If the Eurotest was shown to be discriminatory..” . Note the use of ‘if’’, it indicates that there is doubt within BASI . as an aside the Chairman fails to indicate if the advice is referencing “Direct Discrimination” or “Indirect Discrimination”. The reason given does indicate that they have received some legal advice as the wording is almost a direct lift from the Discrimination Act wording.

HOWEVER, it hinges on what the ‘legitimate aim’ is? If a case was brought against BASI then BASI would have to prove this legitimate aim and it would appear that BASI are still relying on the Health & Safety defence. Well that would be good news for the plaintiff as the European Court of Justice has already thrown that one out. Incidentally the Safety angle was used by BASI in it’s response to the European Commissions ‘Green Paper’ which is currently leading us toward the ‘professional card’. The BASI submission is on the internet.

Clearly the Discrimination Act legislation makes it possible to create an age allowance, and defending the ‘legitimate aim’ would, at best, be difficult especially as, unlike the first aid, this particular legitimate aim (safety) is not an ongoing feature. What I find difficult to understand is why BASI feels that it needs to mount a defence against using the Age Discrimination legislation to the advantage of it’s members.

And that leads to the 5th paragraph. A business need? BASI is a not for profit members organisation. The needs of the entire membership should be addressed. The business of BASI is running courses and as BASI don’t actually run a Eurotest training course and haven’t run a Eurotest for 4 years (note that according to the EU legislation conducting a competence/compensation test should not be bring about a profit). I don’t understand why forcing people to pass a Test which is outside the control of BASI is a ‘business’ decision.

"The Eurotest marks the current internationally recognised standard in Austria, France, Germany, Italy and the UK." This is an oxymoron, 4 (5) countries doesn’t make it international, 4 (5) countries (3 actually as Germany & UK aren’t allowed a vote) makes it an elitist club or is it a cartel? North America & Southern Hemisphere don’t require such a test.

"To reject the Eurotest would prevent UK skiers from gaining the qualification which would allow them to be recognised as having the high technical skills needed to teach in one of Europe's largest mountain ranges for resorts." Not correct, BASI defines the qualifications of the Association not FEMPS, BASI should select the tests which it decides are appropriate. As long as those tests were not substantially different then the qualification would be valid. Whether they like it or not the FEMPS cartel are not exempt from the Law. (but see comments on par 7 below to realise why FEMPS are wangling the MoU so that it does become Law.)
The credibility / employment thing is another red herring. Any instructor worth his salt would only be concerned about his/her credibility with clients, the very thought that a BASI member should ‘doff his cap’ whenever a Moniteur walked past because he was 0.01 seconds quicker is derisible. The vast majority of Level 4 instructors in the Alps work for British ski schools, they are employed because they are BASI members not because they passed the Eurotest comfortably or even marginally or even not at all (wait until the 200 Spanish pitch up in Courvchevel!). There are many ‘non level 4’ instructors employed in Italy and Austria because the ski school needs the quality of service that they deliver to the customers. The customers themselves have no concern or preference about a Eurotest pass.
And the last sentence is wrong, the Law does not require it to be ‘equivalent’.

The 6th paragraph deals with BASI’s second reason, and this is good news. If the discredited “Health & Safety” is the best they can come up with then the Board must know that they are trying to defend the indefensible.

Paragraph 7. “Until this changes or until a European professional card is introduced the Eurotest will remain a necessary element to be passed in gaining the BASI level 4 ISTD qualification.” Freshie was correct when he wrote “Seems like the eurotest is to stay and practically unchanged.” I fear (actually I am certain) that as a consequence of this Pro card project that matters will get worse for BASI members. This Card is being seen by the FEMPS group as the chance to subsume their protectionist notions into Law, they have already tabled restrictive amendments and will be seeking to include more before the pilot ends.

The Eurotest does not have to be included as a BASI ‘module’, there is no legal compulsion on BASI to align itself to the Eurotest (the Brussels Agreement 2000 is not an EU directive), it is only doing so because of recently created dogma.
There is absolutely no reason why BASI could not create another test, of course the test would have to be ‘not substantially different’ in terms of degree of difficulty and standardisation but it would be BASI that ran it rather BASI relying on the largesse of FEMPS.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Completely agree Bindingcheck.

The underlying principle about discrimination is that an individual does not make a population. That is to say that just because a 52 has passed the test that the test is fair for 52 year olds.

Personally, I'd love to see the "T Test" to support the "no correlation" bit. And that's just considering the direct discrimination. It ignores people like myself who exclude themselves from even attempting the test because I care about my body and health much more than a 20 year old.

I love the fact that 30 is old wink
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Bindingcheck, Excellent.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Excuse my ignorance........

How does a giant slalom race indicate how good a ski coach is? Puzzled

On another point (as an oldie myself) relating to the 52 year old..... I'm sure it would be possible to show that an athletic woman could make the 'male' grade. Does that mean that other women should be judged on that basis?
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
zellmaniac, indeed.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

What I find difficult to understand is why BASI feels that it needs to mount a defence against using the Age Discrimination legislation to the advantage of it’s members.


If the age group in question showed they had skill and ability that warranted a defence in the form of an allowance then you could argue the case. Currently that is not happening with any form of consistency. In essence an allowance would not help these people pass.

Perhaps you should try to show a benefit of having an allowance. Should the older generation have to get the women's time as that is what it would take. So then the people 1 year before the allowance would be needing a 1.01.00 to pass and then 10 days later a 1.05.00?
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

Perhaps you should try to show a benefit of having an allowance. Should the older generation have to get the women's time as that is what it would take. So then the people 1 year before the allowance would be needing a 1.01.00 to pass and then 10 days later a 1.05.00?


But is this fairer than disqualifying almost everyone over 40 years old?
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
There are world cup skiers and openers around 40/40+. I think we need a weight/height allowance and possibly throw in testosterone levels for good measure Smile
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
jjc james, apparently a report on the ET was compiled by Susie B. our TD representative. This report was never made public to the members. perhaps they could review the results to see if any over 35's would have passed if they had been granted the women's allowance time. 6% may not be the correct handicap but this would be easy to do as the women's time is calculated for each race. I am not sure each candidates age is recorded though but this wouldnt be too hard to check from records.

I pick 35 because i have heard now from two older members that when the Grade 1's received their ET exemption at the time of the Brussels agreement that Grade 2's who had passed at least one Grade 1 module, and, were over 35 got an exemption as well. This is a just a rumour as far as i am concerned , perhaps Beanie1 could make enquiries with head office?

if so we have yet another clear precedent

What we do know is that last year BASI members had a 6% pass rate and that 19% of passes have been by over 30's. as flyingstantoni points out i would guess that a statistician would destroy any statistical relevance attached to those figures given the numbers of people taking the test (and yes i have some mathematical training).
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

But is this fairer than disqualifying almost everyone over 40 years old?


Where did 40 come from and what makes that the right number? should we have a staggered pass time for 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, etc? Or 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100. Should it be 1 second or 5 seconds? Or none?

Should an 18 year old that is not fully grown be given an allowance? As people peak at around 28 (apparently) they are 10 years off prime to.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
jjc james, Marcel hircher blows the peakin at 28 theory Smile
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
hows it going jjc's snowHead personally i would have multiple age handicaps that relate to current FIS masters age bands. if it is good enough for FIS why not the ET as the test is meant to be to strict FIS rules on homologated slopes
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

What we do know is that last year BASI members had a 6% pass rate and that 19% of passes have been by over 30's. as flyingstantoni points out i would guess that a statistician would destroy any statistical relevance attached to those figures given the numbers of people taking the test (and yes i have some mathematical training).



With the number of over 30's starting being much lower it is easily provable that 19% is a fair amount. Example 33 year old we coached for 2 years passed in ADH this season. He failed the test for 6 years 3 before 30 and 3 after 30. It is possible to argue people over 30 are put off by the standard or that ski instructors are normally in their 20's when they qualify. Every basi course i've ever been on tells me its the later.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jjc james, So the 33 year old that you guys coached for 2 years had been trying for 6?

That's a long time to keep trying. Did he have training through all 6 years?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jjc james,

From your posts I can tell that you are an experienced coach - I am just a numptie intermediate skier. So I cannot argue on technical grounds with you.

It just irks me that it seems unfair to me to take no account of age in a test of this kind. As a hobby I coach a group of kids in the sprints at my athletics club. Even though I am over 50 I am stronger than them, I can do more sprint reps and I have greater flexibility - but despite that in a 100m race they murder me! Now I know you could argue that there is a difference between skiing and sprinting but to some degree I think the principal holds.

Don't know why I am arguing this - there is no way I could ever get to the standard where this would affect me!
Cool
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
zellmaniac, but as an experience sports coach dont you find it galling that you never could teach a sport you love full time
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skimottaret,

Yes!!! Athletics - no money in it. Skiing - I'm just not good enough! (but we can always dream)
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Philbo, he did train each season before us but not sure who with. We had to change a lot of things in his skiing. Accompanied with a solid fitness program + equipment set up he went on to succeed within 8 weeks training with us, all pre-season.

skimottaret, Not sure thats entirely true, if you isolated france i'd agree with you. Some ISIA's are staying put in Switzerland and Austria nowadays as its finically viable to do so.

In fact we know a Level 2 that has no need to continue he just runs his ski school in Saas Fee! But this has been mentioned before so sorry for flogging a dead horse!
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

The nub of this is the effect that the Eurotest has on 2500 BASI members and we need to avoid giving the BASI Board excuses to dismiss any valid points which are raised (and presumably passed to the Board by Beanie1)


Bindingcheck, BASI would like to encourage you to direct your questions / points to the Board, and they will respond.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
jjc james wrote:
With the number of over 30's starting being much lower it is easily provable that 19% is a fair amount.

As they say jjc james put up or shut up then wink

Show me the proper statistical analysis and I'll do the same.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jjc james wrote:
Some ISIA's are staying put in Switzerland and Austria nowadays as its finically viable to do so.

In fact we know a Level 2 that has no need to continue he just runs his ski school in Saas Fee! But this has been mentioned before so sorry for flogging a dead horse!

That's obviously, according to the Eurogroup, because the mountains in Switzerland are so much safer that a Eurotest-equivalent isn't needed for (clears throat) "safety purposes". wink
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
FlyingStantoni, So should the system be changed simply because some people decide where they want to work before they have the ability to pass the qualifications to work there?
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy