 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been skiing now for about 6 or 7 weeks and am really keen on improving my rather shaky technique.
I'm just back from a week in Obergurgl in Austria over Xmas and am heading off skiing again a weeks time - so I thought I'd let my fellow Snowheads have a look at me in action in the hope that I can get some feedback on what I'm doing right and wrong, so that I can work on my technique when I'm back on the snow.
Right ... I'm feeling brave, so here we go: 4x videos taken on two different slopes.
http://uk.youtube.com/v/kuyzC-dVWiA
http://uk.youtube.com/v/b3-jIIml8Lw
http://uk.youtube.com/v/wuv4FloielA
http://uk.youtube.com/v/Orv-zpgxdlo
The video's aren't great ... but hopefully you can see enough to be able to give some advice/guidance (?)
Anyway, many thanks in advance for the help 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Heck! If that's 'terrible skiing', what hope have the rest of us got?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia, thanks .... I'll pay you later 
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abj, not terrible at all, pretty good skiing actually. And particularly so as you've only done 6-7 weeks! Good upper body discipline, generally good and consistent balance on your skis, nice pole planting, good control of speed and line, and nice flow to your skiing. Also, brave of you to put your vids up here - respect! Now all imho and nit-picking really, but could do with a little more flexion and extension in some of those turns and this should be progressive. A slight pop is often seen esp on your turns to right. Could also maybe do with more ankle flexion generally so that your weight is carried forwards more by this joint and also then less is required at the waist and your hips will be brought more forwards. Other things I see are stronger turn to the left than right (very commonly seen and applies to me too) with a hint of a stem often seen on weaker turn. Could do with drills aimed at weighting the outside ski, balancing against the outside ski and early removal of weight from the inside ski. Need then to learn to understand and use each of the 3 ways to steer a ski and work on each, incld edging to get you carving. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges, are you referring to the bit of downstem at the end of right turns, particularly in video #3?
abj, nicely done. Well balanced.
My quibble would be that, if a turn happens from 12 to 6'o'clock, you seem to be in a bit of a rush at 2:30, not quite trusting that a well edged, pressured ski will turn you.
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Nice skiing for a 6-7 weeker...  good control and rhythm but there are a few thing you could work on to quickly improve your skiing.
On both the flat and more so on the steeper pitch you tend to steer by twisting your feet as opposed to tipping the skis on edge. I would like to see more angulation of the body and actively flexing down at the bottom of the turn to absorb pressure and then extending at the beginning of the turn to flatten the ski and tip them on edge earlier..
try these drills and really exaggerate the movements during the exercises.
On the flatter pitches try skiing without poles and with both hands on hips like a teapot as you enter each turn progressively push your hip in towards the centre of the turn. as you finish the turn relax the pressing in and get tall, recentering your hips.
On the steeper sections one thing to try would be to see if you can ski slowly in control as per your video but while holding both poles across your chest see if you can link turns with the poles staying perpendicular to your direction of travel down the hill... This will be easier to do if you actively get tall at the top of the turn and sink at the bottom.... you swing your shoulders on the steep sections and got a bit stiff at the top of run 3.
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No problems for a 7 weeker... you are doing very well..
If I was being picky..and this is out of order for 7 weeks..I'd say the whole thing was a bit stiff.
You might want to set your sights on being a bit more fluid and less robotic ... but that goal is not generally the remit of 7 weeks, so just have that in mind if you are goofing around and want to try things..more fluid movements, IMV.
Or..ignore that..and progress as you have been...
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abj, Were you trying to ski in a particular way in any of the vid's ? ie, carving or short radius etc. ? With that info I think you'll get more meaningful 'technical' feedback.
But from what I saw, good control of speed and line. Looked more like a demo than a 'performance' (just like me when in front of a camera !)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All i can really add is your cameraman(person) could do with a steadier hand - my advice? lay off the pop the night before
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Thanks for the comments so far.
slikedges, you're right on the stronger turn to the left. Not sure why this is, but I'm just feel so much more comfortable on this side. I'm also aware that I sometimes make a small snowplough / go knock-kneed between turns ... is that what you mean by a 'stem'?
skimottaret, I'll definitely give these drills a go ... it's been a while since a tried skiing without poles, so should be interesting!
JT, stiff is exactly what I thought when I first watched the vids (along with 'do I really look like that when I ski?'). To me, my top half looks particularly rigid (?) ... this might be because I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing with hands/arms and pole plants ... so any advice on this side of things would be great.
david@mediacopy, Good question. When I was skiing I felt like I was doing much bigger turns that I actually was, which leads me to think that I probably have a pretty fixed turn shape (which I guess is not good). The main thing I was trying to do was to keep the turns as clean a possible with as little skid as possible ... but I don't think I achieved this very well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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abj, I had a feeling that you wanted to be at the no skid end of the spectrum.
Making arcs with out any skid needs a little patience to give the skis time to do their thing, ie. make arcs, so the ski's are 'turning' you, rather than you turning the ski's. Try and develop a feeling for what your ski's are doing underfoot (in terms of skid/grip). Things like "Braquage" (lots of skid) & "Railing" to the hill (no Skid) may help in that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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JT, I'm interested in your 'robotic' comment because this was often thrown at me and I think it's part of the learning process for some of us. I used to concentrate so much on getting everything right that I forgot to relax and i think that's what abj is doing. And, I've been taught not to have my arms quite so far forward and that a pole plant is a flick of the wrist and not a complete arm movement forward.
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abj, I suspect most people have a stronger turn and a weaker turn. If you're right-handed then the right foot/leg is good at doing active things but not so good at balance, while the left foot/leg is better at balance.
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You know it makes sense.
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abj, I'm hardly one to talk about "technique" but from a solely body dynamic POV you are intensely RIGID, there is little if any absorption of the terrain and as such the skis are following a route forced by your body movement and positioning rather than interacting with the snow surface.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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abj, I agree with pretty much everything said here. Really nice skiing for a 6-7 weeker - I wish I'd been that good at that time.
My main objections would be that you're skiing almost entirely by foot rotation, and the previously mentioned body rigidity. Yes the upper body is nice and quiet, but that's because it's locked in place, with not a lot going on from below the waist either. So my suggestions would be:
1) Loosen up by just waving your arms about - windmills, aeroplanes, shadow box, dance like Boris Yeltsin (maybe not that ), whatever - when skiing along a flat track or gentle slope. Also try lifting one ski and ski straight on one leg for a bit. Anything to build up freedom of movement and confidence of standing freely on your skis while they're moving.
2) Sideslipping standing tall then short, then into edge checks (sudden rolls of the knees into the hill causing the edge to bite and the skis to stop). Then forwards and backwards, and linked to falling leaf. These will all develop edge control, equal edge angles on both skis (addressing the knock-knee effect), and knee/leg flexibility, along with lateral balance. Trying to make the edge checks as sudden as possible, but making the effect on your upper body as smooth as possible will force you to feel and absorb the pressure build-up in your legs.
3) Flattish slope so you can ski straight. Go through Extend/flex cycles from the ankles as far as you can. First slowly, then more actively, finally so you're actually jumping off the snow. Then do the same while making single turns into the hill (so you make sure you do the exercise at all angles wrt the fall-line), then big wide turns (say hold each turn for at least a count of five). Finally combine the extension flexion into the rhythm of the turn as described by skimottaret. You'll end up making gentle short swing turns, jump the transition (but try not to twist during it) and sink as low as you can as you complete the turn. All the time while doing so try and feel the weight of your body between centre and balls of you feet - your fore/aft position is pretty good, but this will test it.
4) Same sequence (straight, then single, long and shorter turns), but this time concentrate on pumping the shins forward against the fronts of your boots. This should get you feeling the turning effect from the fronts of the skis and start feeling how pressure can control/cause a turn.
5) To address the knock-knee tendency, and start using your edges to turn, hold your knees with your hands, and push both sideways very gently into the turn by equal amounts. Don't twist your feet, but let the ski do the work - to start with it'll feel like it's taking an age, but if you're on a flat enough slope you'll have plenty of time to let it develop. You can also help by rolling your ankles into the turn. To check that the knees are moving by equal amounts (and so you don't have to dump your poles somewhere) hold your poles across the knees at the same time - so forcing them to move at the same time. Again do this in single turns across the hill, starting in a traverse, or straight down the fall-line. Do this on a green run to start with and don't try linking turns before you've really got this sorted as you will go really fast once you start getting it right. And when you're really confident, hold the poles behind your knees with your hands between your legs  . This is really good for keeping your weight forward as well, but it'll probably take a week or two before you get to that stage.
Some of that stuff you have to consciously do as a drill, but a lot of the mobility stuff can be done just when skiing along flattish tracks from slope to slope, so you don't have to make a big deal about it. You can still have fun, but hyou can extend your range of movement and skills while/in-between doing so.
And above all, get FastMan's DVDs. I've just watched the first two (no3's just about to go in the player) and they are excellent if you want to work on technique. Some of the above are in there. I was trying to think at what level they are best pitched, and now I realise - it's you! You can basically ski fairly well, but have hit that awkward stage often called "the intermediate plateau". You could carry on skiing just the way you do and get most places, but the really good thing is that you say you want to work on your technique, and with that desire you look to me as if you could become a really good skier. It took me rather longer to come to the same point  . As FastMan says by the end of the first DVD (where you're skiing on just the inside ski), by then you're already skiing better than the majority of people on the mountain. It's still going to take a lot of work to get there, but his exercises are prefectly graded to lead you from one step to the next.
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Poster: A snowHead
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erica2004, abj, As Graham says..the body is locked down and cannot react to anything not foreseen if you are this rigid. I think it isn't so much a bad position to be in..in general... but it doesn't allow for any unforeseen change.
You need a more fluid stance..one that is able to react..... I must admit I have a problem with this frozen stance...but maybe just consider it a stance you need to return to when/if you are thrown about...
Maybe retain that stance but be a bit more floppy or loose.... and get back to it as soon as your have reacted to a change of terrain.
This sort of stance and composure is fine on slopes that will not bite back... but it will have you flat on your back very quickly when it is rocking and rolling...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, Fastman DVD's may soon be available for purchase in the UK as opposed to from Colorado in $$
good suggestions, Only thing i would slightly disagree with you would be 5). until he can get some seperation i find that drill can encourage tail washing and i personally dont like the poles behind knees drill as it usually ends up bad and/or with too much sitting down and creation of a back seat.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, thanks for the drills. I'm definitely going to print a copy of this thread and take it with me in a weeks time so I can work through some of these exersises (sad, aren't I!)
What strikes me most of all is my lack of body awareness: until seeing the videos of myself I genuinely didn't realise quite how stiff I was. The same applies to me rotating/twisting the skis ... I really didn't realise that I was doing this until now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abj wrote: |
| What strikes me most of all is my lack of body awareness: |
You're not alone in that. I think the majority of people will have an inaccurate mental image of how they ski for the majority of the time. Video is a great tool, once you get over the initial disappointment of realising you don't ski quite like you think you do!
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Masque, Fantastic... I too feel feeble and incompetent 
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Ohh-hh-hhh, that is ineffably beautful. (Even the wipe-outs are beautiful.)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's the effortless hop to switch at a speed most of us would consider insane then dropping into a sweet carve and just keeps going . . . 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nice vids ... inspiring and depressing in equal quantities!
In order to get an extra push I've been seriously thinking about getting myself on either a Snoworks or Warren Smith course, but am a little unsure whether I'm at the right level for these quite yet (particularly the WS courses) ... anyone have any experience of these two and whether they're right for me?
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abj, don't be depressed, stick to being inspired, I'm fairly ancient but I've still got good body awareness from a sports background and I will nail it . . or die trying . . . You've time to spare to progress and the right attitude to take you down that route. I don't know about the WS Academy, my only experience is at GVA, encountering a bunch of supercilious social snooty retards who's sole topic of conversation was how great they skied on their WS course. I'd have been interested in what they'd learned but I wasn't going to massage their di . . . egos. The courses may be great, but you may also have to develop a bit of tolerance for some of your compatriots
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You know it makes sense.
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abj, The WS videos are quite good and show the standard of some of the sklers. I am sure the courses
cover quite a range of abilities
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, he shows some up and down stem.
abj, yep, that's what I mean by a stem. You do it at the beginning of some and the end of a few of your turns. At the beginning of your longer turns it's because you haven't found a good platform from which to start the turn, and so turn your new outside ski a little into the turn first. At the end of your shorter turns it's because you've ended up too much on the inside ski as the tail of your outside ski washes out at the end of the turn.
I'd recommend first finding drills to address flexion-extension to increase your movement (as suggested by GrahamN, then start to address outside leg dominance (learning to find an early platform on the new turning ski, then balancing against it, while guiding the other). In the absence of any alignment issue, one of the best ways of getting rid of the knockkneed stance is...to simply stop doing it. Learn to be increasingly conscious of your limbs and joints and their position in space, and initially just actively think about skiing with your knees and legs moving symmetrically.
Then you need to start to work on each of the 3 elements of steering your skis, first in isolation then in various blends to achieve different types and shapes of turns. Going on a performance course with the likes of alpine coaching, gravity snowsports, snoworks, warren smith (in strictly alphabetical order ) would be a very good idea.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| slikedges wrote: |
| comprex, he shows some up and down stem. |
slikedges, yes he does.
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abj, yep, that's what I mean by a stem. You do it at the beginning of some and the end of a few of your turns. At the beginning of your longer turns it's because you haven't found a good platform from which to start the turn, and so turn your new outside ski a little into the turn first. At the end of your shorter turns it's because you've ended up too much on the inside ski as the tail of your outside ski washes out at the end of the turn.
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I merely thought the latter problem a bit worse than the first.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abj wrote: |
| In order to get an extra push I've been seriously thinking about getting myself on either a Snoworks or Warren Smith course, but am a little unsure whether I'm at the right level for these quite yet (particularly the WS courses) ... anyone have any experience of these two and whether they're right for me? |
You'd be fine on a Snoworks course. Choose 'Piste Performance' or 'All-Terrain' at level 3/4.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I did a snoworks course last year - all terrain - you would be fine and you would learn a lot. It helped transform my skiing in a week. There were a couple of people on the course I went on who had only been skiing for a couple of weeks and weren't as good as you but they managed OK. Snoworks will put you in the appropriate level of group.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Funnily enough I was leaning towards Snoworks ... so maybe I'll take a proper looks at these guys.
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At the end of your shorter turns it's because you've ended up too much on the inside ski as the tail of your outside ski washes out at the end of the turn
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I'm definitely aware of this problem and tried really hard to get more weight on the outside ski - but looks like there's plenty more work to do on this.
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In the absence of any alignment issue, one of the best ways of getting rid of the knockkneed stance is...to simply stop doing it.
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I've had some success improving this side o things (I used to be a lot more knock-kneed). It seems to be a general trait in my athletic/sporting endeavours ... my knees fall inwards when I cycle and when I run too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abj, at the end of a turn be aware that the weight will have a tendency to go back, so you need to be careful to recentre to keep the weight forwards and down the hill. This will also help you stay balanced on your outside/downhill ski and prevent yourself going onto the inside ski. The other thing is to use more edge at the end of a short turn, like an edge check, to help to stop the downhill ski from washing out.
A lot of this may be down to muscular control but may be best to at least have it checked out to exclude a significant alignment issue. I'd recommend you get in touch with fellow snowHead and bootmeister CEM at http://www.solutions4feet.com/
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