 Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| However, I have never seen anyone selling chains in a layby in any weather conditions. |
Me neither. Nor have I seen enterprising people offering to fit your own chains for a reasonable sum. There have been a few times when I would have willingly paid!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When buying from a Supermarche ensure you check sizes. If your car has traction control etc, some makes and type of chain can damage the car. If in doubt, go to a car parts supplier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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caveman, the relevant sizes are usually written on a) your tyres and b) the box the chains come in. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Agreed,but manufacturers chain thickness and design differ, and the car make/model is just as important as size.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
They sit there on the shelf, in boxes, looking pretty.
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That's the sort of comment (along with the ridiculous assertion about men flogging expensive sets in laybys) which makes one wonder whether you just make things up. When I bought my current chains there were at least half a dozen variations clearly displayed, mounted on wheels, so you could see what you were getting. The mechanisms for doing them up, and for tensioning them, and getting them off again, vary a fair bit. Even a non-techie woman like myself could clearly see the difference and a helpful lad of about 14 told me about the bits I didn't understand and actually invited me to have a go at putting them the wheels in the shop. That's what I meant when I said (in the post from which you quoted very selectively) that you should go to a decent shop where you could make a proper choice about the best value. For me, putting on chains 10 times a year, the expensive ones were best value. They've done four seasons now, and my first, very cheap, pair did approximately 14 miles.
If you think all chains are the same then, frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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James the Last, At the Millenium going up to val thorens, they (police) would not let anything other than 4 wheel drive with snow tyres go past les menuires without chains on. We were lucky had a landcruiser then with snow tyres, so were ok, and after sitting in a queue for a while just got waved on, after he looked at the tyres with his torch, but there were loads of irrate persons arguing with the gendarmes. Then apparently they stopped everyone except 4 wheel drive with chains, according to range rover owner in place next door (not sure i believed him however). But they did shut the road for a few days. Chains are not all the same, the cheap ones usually the self tension rubber bit perishes rapidly so it breaks when you use them, after they have sat in the box for a couple of years
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Urban myth! Over the last 5 years I have certainly seen the police pull over anyone without chains, even in "low " resorts such as Chatel, if you think about the total cost of the trip what is a set of snow chains, and why,as previously posted, put your self in the situation of having to hunt for chains, buy them before you go, and if you have a 4X4 check with the car manufacturer what chains you need and how many. There are a lot of people who think that just because they have a 4X4 they can get away without them or snow tyres, if you have those lovely looking low profile tyres on your X5, they have virtually no grip on snow and even less on ice.
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Winter tyres are a much better idea than chains (though in very heavy snow you will need chains as well). Winter tyres are there all the time, you don't fit and unfit them like chains, and they are suitable for driving in shallow snow and grip well on "icy hairpin bends". I wouldn't be confident driving in the mountains without them, though of course the route from Geneva until you start ascending into the resort does not require a "winterised" car. Having said that, most French cars in the resorts do not have winter tyres and neither do many hire cars. The roads are ploughed, salted and gritted, so most of the time everything is fine. It's just when you get a sudden unexpected snow fall or a sudden freeze that you get problems.
You probably know this already or you can work it out from the other posts, but if you hire a car from Geneva Switzerland, you will pay more than Geneva France but you will get winter tyres, snow chains and a vignette for the Swiss motorway system. If you return a car to the "wrong" side of the airport (e.g. the Swiss side, when you have hired it on the French side), you will have to pay a substantial fee (EUR 150??). The entrance and exit to and from the French side are a bit hard to find, so allow extra time if you don't know where you are going!
If hiring a car, almost without exception you get a better deal from companies like Holiday Autos, Argus or auto-europe.co.uk rather than hiring directly from Hertz, Avis etc. Check the small print. That tells you what you will get included and what you will have to pay extra for in Geneva. Our car hire is booked this year with Holiday Autos on the Swiss side and the car is coming from Alamo with winter tyres and chains included.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have just been looking up how to fit snow chains, ( I have some but never had to use them) and got to wondering...
Lots of people say that on no account should you have winter tyres on driven wheels only as it can be more dangerous etc. Why? You only fit chains to the drive wheels is that not the same thing?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 5-01-17 21:40; edited 1 time in total
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@harrim51, you should have winter tyres on all 4 wheels.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| harrim51 wrote: |
I have just been looking up how to fit snow chains, ( I have some but never had to use them) and got to wondering...
Lots of people say that on no account should you have winter tyres on driven wheels as it can be more dangerous etc. Why? You only fit chains to the drive wheels is that not the same thing? |
If you have winter tyres on only the driven wheels then you'll be pirhouetting along the road. If it's front wheel drive, you'll lose the back end and if it's rear wheel drive then you won't steer.
Chains are slightly different - they primary purpose is to get you going. They're not great at stopping, though helpful. You also travel *very* slowly in chains, partly because they're awful, but mainly because the weather/snowfall commands it; so you shouldn't come unstuck. The snow depth should keep the non-driven wheels in line.
The tyres get you going, keep you on the road and also help you stop - this is where you come unstuck if you have a traction imbalance. You also travel a lot faster with just the naked tyres, so they're subject to much greater forces and the accident is more impressive if it happens.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nine year old thread bump .... 
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't forget to practice putting the chains on....I might look like a plonker wrestling with snow chains on my driveway in the UK but will be able to look smugly down on others as they struggle to put their chains on a) for the first time, b) in the dark and c) in the cold in a resort car park!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@harrim51, the assertion that "lots of people" say you shouldn't have snow tyres on driven wheels is bizarre. In many years of reading SH threads on chains and winter tyres I don't remember anyone making that claim. Lots of other daft things (some crackers on this thread) but not that one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, I think he means "only" to the driven wheels and is trying to justify "only" putting snow tyres on the driven wheels because you generally "only" put snowchains on the driven wheels. Obviously as @Stumbler, says, you do not 130kph on the autoroute with chains.......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@James the Last,
| Quote: |
| Stories - quite possibly urban myth - abound of the police stopping cars without chains and not permitting them to go up the road into the resort. |
Not seen it in France, but have definitely seen it in Switzerland. Worse, I once experienced the Swiss Police standing at the top of the Julierpass and sending all cars without chains back down to St. Moritz to buy some. Why they didn't just stop them at the bottom I do not know!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Steilhang wrote: |
@James the Last,
| Quote: |
| Stories - quite possibly urban myth - abound of the police stopping cars without chains and not permitting them to go up the road into the resort. |
Not seen it in France, but have definitely seen it in Switzerland. Worse, I once experienced the Swiss Police standing at the top of the Julierpass and sending all cars without chains back down to St. Moritz to buy some. Why they didn't just stop them at the bottom I do not know! |
Have seen the Gendarmerie in Aime stopping cars without snow Tyres and/or chains going any further, in the past have been sent into a Chainage area to put chains on before being allowed to continue up the hill. Theses days in a 4x4 with winter tyres get waved through, had tyres checked on one occasion.
A friend was stopped just outside Albertville once and had to put chains on! An hours journey that took 4, behind snowploughs.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have a BMW X1 4x4, the manufacturers say to put the chains on the rear wheels only. My common sense thoughts would have told me to put them on the front wheels.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@king key, Its a BMW buy snow tyres! Have seen too many BMW X series models either spinning in circles or in ditches. The X1 being newish I would like to think was different but wouldn't risk it! (The X1 being built in Europe the rest built in the USA)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for that, you learn something every day.
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A few years ago Hampshire Police had a large number of BMWs in their fleet each year from October onwards they all went in for Winter tyres to be fitted! (They got through two sets of tyres a year in any case)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@SharkEnergy, I would say yes, less so chains. We hired in a 4x4 with Winter Tyres and only stopped for chains because everyone else already had done and we were still going up happily. This was up to VT on a snowey transfer day in Jan. Think Winter Tyres make a huge difference, that and 4x4 will get you up most things (in my view).
(Only ever Hired from Geneva Swiss side, always comes with chains and winter tyres, would rather than chains in the car than not though)
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| @king key, Its a BMW buy snow tyres! Have seen too many BMW X series models either spinning in circles or in ditches. The X1 being newish I would like to think was different but wouldn't risk it! (The X1 being built in Europe the rest built in the USA) |
I have a BMW 2 series X-Drive. Spinning in circles on snow is not something it does, nor have I heard of anyone else with these problems on the X series*. Where did you see these problems?
*In Munich quite a lot of people drive BMWs which not unexpectedly they drive into the mountains. Until this year I always had a rear wheel drive X3 or X1 which I never ever had a problem with and in fact never even had to mount chains on... sorry to burst your bubble but there are a lot of really stupid myths out there y'know.
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You know it makes sense.
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In very bad weather the police will invariably prevent cars without chains from proceeding, and may also fine you if you have gone past the warning signs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Steilhang wrote: |
@James the Last,
| Quote: |
| Stories - quite possibly urban myth - abound of the police stopping cars without chains and not permitting them to go up the road into the resort. |
Not seen it in France, but have definitely seen it in Switzerland. Worse, I once experienced the Swiss Police standing at the top of the Julierpass and sending all cars without chains back down to St. Moritz to buy some. Why they didn't just stop them at the bottom I do not know! |
Have seen the Gendarmerie in Aime stopping cars without snow Tyres and/or chains going any further, in the past have been sent into a Chainage area to put chains on before being allowed to continue up the hill. Theses days in a 4x4 with winter tyres get waved through, had tyres checked on one occasion.
A friend was stopped just outside Albertville once and had to put chains on! An hours journey that took 4, behind snowploughs. |
At least there is no snow anymore so that's unlikely to happen again 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@steilhang - used own a 1 series. Without doubt the worst car I have ever driven I the snow. By a country mile!! And I've driven a lot of cars in a lot of snow!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Is this the terrible car thread?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Put a set of winter tyres on a Q7 last winter and it coped perfectly in heavy snow on the steep road into Sainte Foy station and the compacted snow/ice ledge into the car park. So in my experience winter tyres + 4x4 is the bomb!
Discussed the question about chains with the guides and they had winters on their van and never had the need for chains.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@nevis1003, anywhere I have been there's a derogation for 4x4 with winter tyres. Our car nominally doesn't take chains...
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@halfhand, 37:63 was per your article the original allrad system. These days it's 40:60 F:R but up to 100% F:R when required.
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Lots of comments on snow tyres and chains but no comments on socks. I know they used to be pretty dreadful but I also note that AutoSocks say (here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45217&start=40)
| Quote: |
"Are AutoSock approved for use in the Alps, where "snow chains" are compulsory?
AutoSock have been approved since 2010 for use in France as an alternative to metal snow chains where the B26 snow chain signs require snow chains to be carried. Visitors to France will need to download a sticker to fix to the AutoSock storage bag, and are also advised to download the relevant details, taken from the Gendarmerie website, and AutoSock's press release.
AutoSock can also legally be used when snowchains must be carried or fitted in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovenia."
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The sticker link is here http://www.autosock.co.uk/pdfs/AutoSock_B26_France.pdf
And the press release here: http://www.autosock.co.uk/images/downloads/using-autosock-in-france.pdf
the latter link includes an extract from the Gendarmerie website (apparently) in French to (also apparently) show to any French bobby who might dispute this. Not sure how sympathetic said gendarme will be though...
Just wondering what other peoples experience with snowsocks is. I see them as having definite advantages for ease of putting on and also for clearance issues. However I have never driven with them; I generally have snow tyres and chains (I live in the Highlands so tend to have these anyway).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Rwd bmw's with Winter tyres are great in the snow. Let the ass slide and gun it. My 15 year old 5 series made it up more hairy mountain passes than you could shake a stick at. The only time in 7 years I needed chains was when i got to st Luc village in smowmageddon of 2013 when the road hadn't been cleared. Have a new ish 5x series now and is a lot less fun. If safer.
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@boredsurfin, I didn't think anyone would try to drive around the alps in winter on summer tires! Doesn't matter whether you have 4wd or not, winter tires make such an enormous difference at anything below 7°C that I wouldn't ever consider not using them. Anyway, in Austria they are mandatory (thank God).
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FAQ
The original wheels are too wide to for the chains to fit around and clear the suspension......they don't tell you that when you buy the car. 
