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Gap year instructor courses

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My daughter has been looking at these courses but the prices are way out of reach. 12 weeks in Whistler about £6000 not including flights, spending money, skis, etc......

Has anyone had any experience of "do-it-yourself" ski and snowboard instructor courses (preferably in USA/Canada) while doing a part-time job as well? I've heard so many things about these gap-year companies being a total rip-off and whatever my daughter does she's going to have to fund it all herself.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sue, interestingly i was talking to the BASI mentor in Zermatt the week before last on this very subject.

He was of your opinion too, feeling that not much tuition is provided for your money. Certainly for BASI you need to have 70 hours shadowing a teacher in their classes. Not much cost there for the gap year course provider! He was definitely of the opinion that for the sort of money they're looking at you could do better putting something together yourself and making contact wih local ski schools.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A couple of years ago the Swiss ski school in Wengen was short of staff so any one who was a fairly good skier or boarder could join the ski school as a trainee instructor, the cost - nothing, in fact those people who reached the basic standard required, had I think to pay for their instructors clothing, but then they were getting paid to teach so it wasn't too bad cost wise, someone I talked to thought it was going to cost them about £500 to £800 but they expected to make that and more over the remainder of the season. £6000 is very expensive, note however that I'm not sure what if any formal qualifications the swiss ski school would have given
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Assuming you're already a reasonable skier, you can easily learn to teach skiing in the UK by doing the English Ski Council courses at your local dry-slope. Then, as DGO has correctly pointed out, you can present yourself at a ski-school at the resort of your choice, and ask about becoming a trainee.

OK there might be a bit more forward-planning than that, but in my experience it's easy getting work at Ski-Schools in Austria and Switzerland, particularly at high season periods. (Obviously you can forget France with this approach) Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I am thinking of doing one of those next year as I'll be taking a gap year.

It'll probably boil down to whether I can afford it. Would be easier if they were cheaper.
Best one I've seen in terms of prices is a place called Snow*Skool, you may want to have a look at their program, http://www.snowskool.com/ order their free brochure, its considerably cheaper than the rest at £5100 including return flights, that you book yourself, they'll reimbuse the cost I think. So if you're looking to stay longer than the course that's useful.

I don't know what your daughter's motives are for wanting to do such a course, if shes an instructor standard skier already and she wants to do one of these instructor courses for career motives in the future, they're definitely not a good call, especially the ones based in Canada. Probably best to just do the BASI exam courses and work experience on her own up to the required levels. However, I think for someone who wants to have fun with a bunch of like minded individuals, improve their skiing, be able to ski all day every day, not have to work and make some good friends they look a good bet.

Then again you could go and bum a season, with the same asvantages, getting lessons as and when you feel like it, but that would be pretty expensive aswell I think.
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Sue S, These courses are not worth it unles you get a qualification at the end of it. BASI run a gap year course (also very expensive) which you cn find on their website (www.basi.org.uk)

Be very careful about US and Canadian qualifications, they aren't worth much in Europe (sorry ssh), and even the full cert US is not up to the standard of National BASI or French/Italian/Austrian etc.

If your daughter seriously wants to teach ski-ing for a career, then she should definitely contact BASI for suitable advice and do her foundation course and Grade 3. She could then possibly work as an apprentice in Europe. Good luck to her.

telford_mike, I take your point about the ESC, but remember that ESC qualifications (apart from Coach) DO NOT qualify you to teach on snow. snowHead
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
easiski - that was precisely my point - you need to concentrate on learning to teach rather than gaining qualifications. In most European countries it is not necessary to have a formal qualification to join a ski-school as a trainee.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks everyone for your comments - next question! If you want to join a ski-school as a trainee (in Europe) do they expect you to have a second language?
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Depends entirely on their clients. The Swiss Ski School in Wengen for example is happy to accept English only, as a large proportion of customers are British, same goes for the privately run "Alpbach Aktiv", in Austria.
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Sue S, The Canadian (CSIA) run courses at the beginning and end of the season in Andorra, they fly a group of coaches over. Very reasonable prices for the courses and any accom you need.
easiski, The CSIA grade 3 is accepted in Europe as an international qualification, even by the French!! (remember the connection with thier good buddies in Canada) Got to agree the prices for the gap courses are over the top.
Oh I forgot to mention that the Canadians make learning fun, It is all about the "All Mountain Experince" smile.
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I did a 10 week BASI Gap Year course a few years ago in Andorra and had a great time. However if you want to reduce the cost then I would recommend getting a part time job in resort for the season and just booking onto the BASI Trainee (5 day) and Instructor (10 day) courses or equivalent Canadian etc courses. Then once in resort chat up the local ski school manager and ski instructors and ask to do some shadowing. Most instructors are happy to have someone shadow with them, especially when looking after kids, it's good experience and the instructors may even share their tips!

If the clients are mostly English speaking then you won't need a second language, but if you're fluent you'll have the potential to get more work. You'll also need a recognised first aid certificate. Be aware you'll be limited where you can work without an ISIA or higher qualification and that will probably mean at least a season of teaching on snow and more courses once you've done your BASI 3 or CSIA 1 & 2.

Hope that helps.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My wife is away on an 11 week course at the moment in Fernie, BC. It seems to be very well organised, and she'll come away with a CSIA 1 and hopefully 2. She seems to be enjoying it, despite the somewhat dire conditions!

I'll post updates as the course progresses.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
telford_mike, Talking to an English instructor with the Swiss ski school in Morgins, he suggested that getting CSIA 2 in a single trip if you hadn't taught before would be a challenge butnot impossible. He'd just returned from his CSIA 3. Good luck to your wife.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My son got a job with the American Ski Company in Sunday River. He then had to go to the US Embassy in Toronto with proof of employment to get a working visa, the good old chicken and egg syndrome, before being allowed to start work. Worked in the resort, in ski hire shops, maintenance etc and eventually worked as a Ski and Snowboard Instructor. It can be done, the GAP year people take away all the hassle, but at a price.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I would do one of the canadian courses in an instant - 5-6000 quid is nothing really considering it includes hotel, flights, breakfast & evening meals + a minimum of 20 hours instruction a week, lift pass, exam entrance, free passes to other resorts, transport. I don't think I could spend 12 weeks in Banff doing all that... I asked my boss for a 12 week sabbatical to do this course and he said no. The git. Sad
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dypcdiver, I'm not convinced that ENSA accepts the CSIA level 3 as equivalent to the French Nationale. It is ISIA, but to be accepted as an "equivalent" in France,Austria,Italy and GB you must pass the Euro Speed test. I do not believe that this is an integral part of the level 3 CSIA. Without the Euro test you are not eligible for a Carte Professionelle, and thus can only work as a "stagaire". You are entitled to do this, but must work towards the Eurotest and pass it within 2 or 3 years.

I still recommend qualifications from this side of the pond. If you can get a course and a level 2 at the end of it - can you get a BASI 2 - no - you have to do time actually teaching in ski schools in between each level. You must have time in between each level to gain experience and so on.

It costs more (probably) to get French, Austrian, Italian or British National (International) qualifications, but then you can work anywhere in the world without question and at the top rate.

BTW ISIA status is awarded at BASI 2 level, Austrian Landeschilehrer - not National.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
easiski - don't understand many of the acronyms that you have used, and I wouldn't question a word you say, but in my experience in Austria and Switzerland, if you're any good, and if the ski-school director knows you, you can get a job. If they don't know you, you can pitch up with all the qualifications in the world and you'll still be unemployed.

In summer I work at a plastic slope in darkest Shropshire. We wouldn't dream of employing an instructor we didn't know, regardless of qualifications. Exposing your customers to an unknown quantity is just too big a risk.

There's more to ski-teaching than qualifications. You have to be able to teach, and the ski-school has to know that you can teach....
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
telford_mike,
Quote:
There's more to ski-teaching than qualifications. You have to be able to teach, and the ski-school has to know that you can teach....


Well sort of in an ideal world that might be the case, however going by the reports we get in to snowHeads not all instructors can teach and not all ski schools know those instructors can't teach Shocked
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D G Orf wrote:
telford_mike,
Quote:
There's more to ski-teaching than qualifications. You have to be able to teach, and the ski-school has to know that you can teach....


Well sort of in an ideal world that might be the case, however going by the reports we get in to snowHeads not all instructors can teach and not all ski schools know those instructors can't teach Shocked


True. It must be tricky being a ski-school director. I guess the question is, do you trust the qualifications, or do you trust personal knowledge of the candidate?

(Unless you're the ESF of course, in which case you just assume that French=go(o)d).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
easiski, I take your point about the stupid speed test. Reality is, if presented with a choice of spotty faced yuff who had passed the speed test and a close to senior citizen instructor who had not passed the speed test, I am sure I know which would be chosen by most skiers who need ski instruction. Those who need speed training have moved on from the normal area of instruction and should go to a dedicated race trainer Toofy Grin . As an aside 15 years ago I was in Chamonix when one of the first speed tests was set up for non French instructors, the target time was set by an ex olympic squad GS skier (can't remember his name now but it was familiar at the time) several of the BASI trainers did not get within the percentage time and to all intents condemed to the scrap heap!! BTW there were no French instructors on the course. rolling eyes
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Dypcdiver, we've been down this route before, but I have to disagree with you about the speed test. The test is open to all, irrespective of nationality and the test is used as bar to entry in order to weed out those skiers whose technique is not good enough, to benefit from the apprenticeship they have to follow. I know it's arbitary but I can't see any other alternative. I do know that if the local ski school know you, they will take you on as a trainee but you still have to pass the test within a set period. Ex olympic and ex world cup skiers can be found in a quite a few equipes, there are a couple in La Rosiere who also happen to be really good instructors.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David@traxvax, Point I was making was that you do not need to be able to race to teach. I don't think BASI trainers would take kindly to you suggesting they need to start as apprentices wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
telford_mike, You can get a job, but at very reduced pay. You are, effectively, a second class citizen. If you're an employer then it's up to you to decide how to choose your staff, but they would have to have proper qualifications or your insurance would be void.

Dypcdiver, The speed test is now considered part of the upcoming European qualifications: why? because if you can ski well enough you can do the time. The time is set by ex-World Cup or Europa Cup skiers, but is reconciled to a "base" which is set when they all race against each other and get handicapped. Thus the time required for the candidates wil be a percentage of the "base" time and not of the opener's time. If your technique is not good enough to do the time, your ski-ing will not be up to standard. This is a completely unbiased test - no-one is choosing you, and there can be no personal agenda. It's not stupid, and all current BASI trainers have passed it, as have (nearly) all BASI ski teachers working in France. All the (european) systems have many modules on the courses that involve learning, teaching, theory of teaching and learning, psychology, anatomy, biomechanics and so on.

I agree that not all those who can ski well can teach and some who are super teachers cannot ski all that well, however we do need a system and that's it. rolling eyes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The Canadian schools put a large emphasis on people skills and teaching skills, NOT just ski skills which I feel makes a huge differenct. When you're on skis for the first time *everyone* looks like an expert, you don't need someone with Olympic standard technical brilliance, you need a teacher. You think everyone teaching A-level Physics found a new theorem in quantum mechanics?
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Alexandra, I take your point, (and was at pains to say so in my last post), but if people cannot ski pretty well to start with they are also unlikely to have the experience necessary to nurture the nervous beginner or whatever. I would really say that it's more important to put your best instructor with beginners rather than the better skiers.

I'm not knocking the Canadian system, but the level 3 simply isn't equivalent to most European "Nationals" - Level 4 is different though.... BTW the standard for the Euro Speed test is only FIS level - not World Cup!

Come to our mountain and you'll see really good ski teachers from a great variety of nations and qualifications all doing their job properly and seriously.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Alexandra wrote:
The Canadian schools put a large emphasis on people skills and teaching skills, NOT just ski skills which I feel makes a huge differenct. When you're on skis for the first time *everyone* looks like an expert, you don't need someone with Olympic standard technical brilliance, you need a teacher. You think everyone teaching A-level Physics found a new theorem in quantum mechanics?


Exactly right. You'd might expect them have a degree in physics of course, or, to put it another way, to be qualified to a higher level than the one they're teaching at.

This is all just nonsense of course, most people expect their instructor could fly through a few gates without wiping out and to say otherwise is plainly absurd.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 31-01-05 21:25; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
In 2001/2002, I signed up for German language lessons with a company based in Vienna who also arranged for me to do the basic Austrian instructors course and exam in Kaprun. I then taught for a season in one of the Austrian resorts. You should have at least some German to do the course but there were people on it who had no German but could still teach in the resort for the winter and then do a language resit at the end of the year and thus get their license. The Anwaerter is about BASI3 and would allow you to teach in any of the Austrian resorts even if in theory you are limirted to the area that initially passed you for the test. Cost for the ski course including accomodation was about 800 euros and salary in the resort after tax and accomodation was about 700 euros a month.
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