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Is scenery important?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I thought I'd start this thread because I made a few negative comments about Alpe D'Huez, I called it Basildon with snow, might be a bit harsh on Basildon but the fact remains that Alpe was built as the competitor's village for the 1968 Winter Olympics- there' s another thread there if someone wants to kick it off. A number of posters made the comment that they didn't care about the aesthetics as long as the skiing is good. I have to say I find that hard to accept, apart from the fact that you can ski the Alpe d'Huez area and stay in a 'proper' French village, surely part of the appeal of a ski holiday has to be staying in an environment that doesn't resemble a council estate. I can think of a number of well-known resorts that \I would never want to visit again because the architecture is so awful, real blots on the land scape and all them are French. I guess that's the price we have to pay for ski in- ski -out convenience and is that what we want today. I think I'll start a poll, vote for the ugliest ski resort.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I don't think scenery in a village is essential....the mountains alone provide enough. However, it certainly is an added bonus, and I would always prefer a 'proper' village to a purpose built council estate.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Les Menuires is the ugliest place I have skied. Stalin would have been very proud of it!

I like a few trees around the place!
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Well to be totally honest I really dont care about Architecture, design and all that when im skiing. Theres no building in the world that can beat a beautiful snow covered mountain and bright blue sky, and thats what im there for

Without all these soo called "council estates" ( have you ever been to Easter House? - now that is a council estate) skiing would still be expensive and elitist

You're not there for a long time - You're there for a good time
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Flaine i think takes the biscuit on the architectural front. Truly awful, but amazing mountain scenery to make up for it.
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If I'm honest, I far rather ski in resort that was pleasing on the eye. Charming villages, tree lined ski=ing etc. It adds to the whole experience, surely. You are on holiday after all. That said, if the snow dictated where I went, and "Stalinist" architecture was the only option, no problem.

Incidentally, I read somewhere recently that the average cost of a ski=ing holiday in the 20's or 30's was the equivalent at today's prices of £440 per person. Not cheap, perhaps, but hardly exclusive.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David@traxvax, Probably few here have heard of the ugliest resort in the world (imo). Superdévoluy (southern French Alps). Has to be seen to be believed. Menuires, Flaine, Arcs 1800 are architectural works of art in comparison. Soviet era urban monoliths have nothing on Superdévoluy....
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Tell me more PG! Sounds irresistable... what's the skiing like?
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In the Dévoluy range near Gap, about sixty miles of runs, some pretty varied skiing but rather too low these days at 1400m, for the start and end of some recent seasons you had to get a chair to and from resort level to get to the snow unless you wanted to ruin your skis. One of the reasons why there's been so little investment in the infrastructure since some genius decided to erect the monstrous three buildings that the resort consists of. Seem to remember it's been up for sale for a while. Each time I've been there it seems to be full of East Europeans, you certainly can get some really cheap accomodation deals. There's a self-accommodation bureau that lets out apartments by the day according to availability, really good value. To be fair, the locals are great, it's rarely crowded, and it is linked to the village on the other side of the mountain - La Joue du Loup - which is really attractive, with tree-lined slopes (completely bare on the Superdévoluy side). Get a cheap flight into Marseilles, it's a bit more than a couple of hours drive from there...
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Someone told me that Alpe D'huez used to have loads of trees but they cut them all down to make more pistes. Don't know if this is true, but it would certainly have improved the look ot the place.
I have stayed in Alpe D'Huez a couple of times and last time I was there I noticed a couple of wooden chalets used by a G.B. tour operator that would have looked O.K. in say Meribel but were totally out of keeping with were they where, just kind of plonked down.
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Personally, I' prefer resorts like Flaine - "real" village are larger and more spread out, byt staying in a purpose built resort you cut down on travelling from your residence to the slopes

*pot well and truly stirred*
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Well, while scenery isn't important, great scenery can make a good experience unforgetable. Don't believe me? You haven't ever skied at Lake Tahoe, then. I will never forget skiing Homewood there, with the crystal blue of the lake spread out below me looking like I was going to ski to its very edge. For me, though, it's usually the natural scenery, not the village. Looking across at the Gore range from Vail, Copper, and Breckenridge is nearly as amazing as Lake Tahoe.

Ugly villages are a shame. But, they tend not to impact my enjoyment of the skiing experience.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Yes scenery is important, don't believe me ? then go and have a look on my website http://uk.geocities.com/david.orf@btinternet.com/Jungfrau_Pages.html
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Beautiful! snowHead Exclamation
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ssh, I've skiied Tahoe, and yes scenery is important - when I'm on the slopes. A pretty village is often a downside
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Blimey! DGO, how tall is that light?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think the secenery is very important. One of the first thing that got me hooked on skiing is the beauty and remoteness you can find round the next corner.
Being a couple of minutes off piste skiing away from not having a pylon or other person in sight is awesome.
Personal favourite is the tree skiing in les Get
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Are we talking mountain scenery or picturesque village/resort?

Even the grimmest resorts can provide fantastic mountain scenery (think Alpe D'Huez and the view from the Pic Blanc, ditto Cervinia and Plateau Rosa). To the mountain newcomer even Andorra can be pretty spectacular!

While a pretty village is 'nice', it would always be way down my list of priorities - give me the convenience of ugly Tignes and access to the Espace Killy any day over any picture-postcard Austrian resort where you have to walk half a mile to the gondola station, then queue and ride up with every other skier in the resort.

Once you're up in the mountains it doesn't really matter where you are - you can always find your own bit of paradise! Very Happy
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Yep, ski in, ski out, is more important to me. Having said that, a beautiful village is a nice bonus to a holiday Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Have any of you skied Crested Butte here in Colorado? Once you get around to the side of the mountain, you're facing the Snowmass Wilderness when skiing down. You can't see so much as a road in all that wild scene. Wonderful!
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Yes, scenery is important, that's why I prefer the Dolomites (Altabadia) even though, the "cementification" (as in, filling every bit of available patch of land with houses/buildings/bridges/roads, others would call it "progress") is well under way there.
Also, another place I like is in Austria, but I will nottell where.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
My favorite comment on mountain scenery was from a friend of mine, having arrived in Wengen late at night, he got up the next day walked out of the building and looked arround him, one word was all he said, WOW !......
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
So far have only been to the large French mega areas that aren't considered scenic - so maybe I don't know what I'm missing but still think that the beauty of the mountains completely overides what the buildings look like.
Scenery is one of the reasons I love skiing, I guess I just try to ignore the bit that you have to sleep in.
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I'm with DG on this.....spend a week or two in Wengen, and then say that the village doesn't matter Exclamation
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As a relative newby to the world of skiing, I would love to be able to go on a ski hol where the snow was sure, the pistes varied and plentiful, the apnts and hotels cheap, the apres ski friendly, the "village" atmosphere great, AND great scenery. But to be honest can't seem to find that. So I am more than happy with great skiing and good accomodation. The rest is a bonus if I find it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Well MM you had the offer to stay in Wengen, what can I say Laughing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Chris M-J, come to La Rosiere 1850, I knew I could get a plug in if I tried.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Chris M-J, may I suggest a week in Obertauren in Austria. OK its not the cheapest resort around but the atmosphere is fantastic, the resort is incredible for skiing, its in a bowl and you can ski right around the resort, many blues, reds and blacks although I wouldnt recommend for a total novice.... I went on my 2nd yr and enjoyed it though. The apres ski at the Umbrella bar on the piste has to be experienced.... its wild. Back in the early 90s my hubby ended up dancing on the bar! Some mad Austrian even skied the length of the bar, but they banned that a few yrs back (could go through the window and end up in some heavy duty off piste stuff.......). It is high altitude, virtually guaranteed excellent conditions even late season.......... We stayed at the Petersbuhl. Nice people, good welcome, great grub.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It's hard to imagine not living in a place surrounded by mountains and water. Not being able to hop in the car for an hour & 1/2 drive to good skiing a couple times a week would be unbearable! I can see the ski runs from here on two of the local Vancouver ski areas, about 60+ miles, it drives me crazy when I'm at work driving the bus to two small towns out in the county.
Getting back to the question though, I don't care what the buildings are like. Good skiing is the only thing that counts. I remember the first time I went to Whistler ('69, there was no Village) I stayed in an A-frame cabin with bunk beds for $2 a night. Now Whistler is only a 3 hr drive and usually a day trip for me. If I do stay for a couple of days I'll camp out, sleep in the car or tent at a closed campground a few miles outside Whistler Village.
The less real estate development the better as far as I'm concerned. What do big expensive hotels have to do with skiing? Nothing. Just ruins the mountain environment. Sorry about the rant. I can't wait to go skiing, it's been a whole week already
Shocked
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
This is starting to irritate! Do any of you strap on a pair of snowshoes and walk away from the pistes?
Or even better, get out there in the spring/summer/autumn? Try camping in the high mountains in the summer and you’ll understand why Bulgarian architecture is such a vile defacement! At least the snow masks the worst of it!
JohnB
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
fiddler wrote:
It's hard to imagine not living in a place surrounded by mountains and water. Not being able to hop in the car for an hour & 1/2 drive to good skiing a couple times a week would be unbearable! I can see the ski runs from here on two of the local Vancouver ski areas, about 60+ miles, it drives me crazy when I'm at work driving the bus to two small towns out in the county.
Getting back to the question though, I don't care what the buildings are like. Good skiing is the only thing that counts. I remember the first time I went to Whistler ('69, there was no Village) I stayed in an A-frame cabin with bunk beds for $2 a night. Now Whistler is only a 3 hr drive and usually a day trip for me. If I do stay for a couple of days I'll camp out, sleep in the car or tent at a closed campground a few miles outside Whistler Village.
The less real estate development the better as far as I'm concerned. What do big expensive hotels have to do with skiing? Nothing. Just ruins the mountain environment. Sorry about the rant. I can't wait to go skiing, it's been a whole week already
Shocked


There you are, you've inititially said that the buildings don't matter, then had a rant against the very things that the "pro-scenery" people are also against. Very Happy I think they'd quite like to stay in a village of cabins and the like.

A mate of mine spends every year in a small, wooden alp above Arosa, with no access road and no electricty and the like. They get some really good skiing and I'd love to do it one year. Never been ski trekking before though, so think I'd need some practise first.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks Fruity and David for your ideas. Have never been to Austria, and lady love and me fancy that fro a trip when we are not dragging poor beginners with us, (beginners who are, we tell them, going to have the time of their lives, but who look at the price of some of our suggestions and scream), anyway will add Obertauren to the list. Any recommendations of accom there? Hadn't looked at La Rosiere, will do some surfing later to look into it. Thanks again. P.S. dont you just hate people who say..."cant wait to next ski trip, havnt been for a week".... I am greener than a green ball on the village green drinking green tea while doing a sit-in for greenpeace, with envy.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The whole village is so compact and pretty, all the accomodation is good. Ours was Petersbuhl Hotel and it was about 3 mins from the piste, but so are most of them - the resort has webcams and it may be worth a look. Cannot recommend it highly enough, hubby has skied there about 6 times....
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David, I think I may have dissed your comments on AdH in another thread, due to the other advantages of the ski area. However I have to agree the town is pretty naff (the original village of Huez en Oz is a contrast though).

Les Menuires and Flaine are the 2 that spring to mind, but both have great mountain scenery. Tignes Val Claret is no picture postcard either. The French have seen the error of their ways (I think), but it is difficult to cater for mass tourism in snow sure resorts (i.e. artificial villages, where no-one would normally chose to live).

PB, I'll have to check out Superdévoluy sometime!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Red Dave, Not far at all from Grenoble, maybe 30 mins the other side of Gap...
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Thanks PG. In that case I'll have to go exploring. Probably won't make it till the after the season now and purpose built ski resorts are even uglier in the summer!
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I'm going to stir things up and suggest that Flaine actually isn't that bad to look at. The concrete that they use blends into the granite very quickly when you go up the hill. Alpe d' for example can be seen clearly all the way up. However in my opinion Plagne Centre and Aime Plagne are the worst. They are blots that you always see and they just shout up the hill.

I think (controversially) that they did quite a good job to create something new with Flaine. The real snag with Flaine and why it gets a bad press is that it hasn't been well maintained and the accomodation and resort is tatty. I actually like the convenience of it, the lack of traffic, the views both of Mont Blanc and even down on the resort and the fantastic skiing.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Red Dave, My last trip there was early April 2003, for the Alpes Provence finals, a parallel... You're right, nothing looks sadder than a collection of ugly buildings surrounded by mud and dispirited looking locals, hats off to them though they'd transported enough brownish slush down from high up to make a strip of piste just about skiable for a couple of hours. By the time they'd had the prize-giving it had almost disappeared. Hate that end of season feeling.
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PG, I have to agree with you on the end of season feeling. I was skiing with a friend in AdH on Saturday and in the car back she said 'I'm just about ready for summer now..' - I couldn't believe it! The snow gods must have been tuning in as just after that it started throwing down snow (in the Bourg d'Oisan though, not on the mountain)!

Chris, maybe when Flaine was built yes - the new buildings are a lot nicer. I agree with you about the views and skiing too and I'll be repping there for 3 weeks in March / April!
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