 Poster: A snowHead
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Powderhound, you near/in Verbier? How's it look for the weekend?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Powderhound, thanks for the explanations, it does make some sense to me now (I'd always wondered what "catching an edge" meant but was too embarassed to ask). My next problem is - how do I keep my edges sharp enough for long enough for these things to manifest 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ise,
Verbier is in a poor state at the moment with artificial/pisten-bullied snow on Attelas-Ruinettes and not much else. It was mobbed last weekend with drag racers and Army boys training for their annual races. I would suggest St Moritz at the mo or the glacier at Saas Fee (again, race training heavy), both of which require some travel from the Verbier area. As for me? Until the snow arrives I will keep earning the winter funds by working in Brussels! My girlfriend is in Lech this weekend and the outlook is bleak there also...
Alan Craggs,
Edges should stay good for quite a long time as long as they are looked after. This involves using ski ties to prevent the skis fretting when being transported, avoiding the thin areas where the snow has turned brown or has bits of grit in it and giving them a quick once over with a file after a day's use on bulletproof pack or boilerplate. If, as suggested by another member, you elect to reduce your edge angle to less than 90° you cannot go back to 90° at a later stage. It will also significantly reduce the life of the ski as there is only a finite amount of edge you can remove before you are at the sidewall. Remember that a good technician can repair your skis as long as the top sheet and core are still structurally sound. The sidewall can be fixed to a certain extent, bases can pretty much be totally re-filled and blown edges can be cut, reshaped, and re-screwed. But once the edge has gone it has gone, and if too thin it is more likely to break. A servicing machine should be avoided if you have the time and inclination to do your own because it grinds the edges and the base to within an inch (far less actually) of its life. I have a trusted pair of Dynastar Skicross 66 (186cm) which are my rock hoppers and have both edges re-attached with screws through the base into the core, and which ski nicely still.
Don't forget to de-bur as mentioned by someone else, and you can tell if they need it by running a finger lightly down the edge (be careful if they are too sharp) and feeling for jagged areas, a spot of emery paper or a de-burring stone will cure this and you will feel the difference on hard snow.
Different manufacturers have different qualities of metal for edge use. The more you pay, generally the better the quality.
Hope this is of some use! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Powderhound, thanks, it's going to have to be Verbier I think, too far to Saas Fee.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I must have been being a bit dim, I've just twigged we're talking about three different things.
1. single angle on the whole ski, this is what I typically do.
2. detuning or blunting the tip and tail, ie with a coin as suggested above.
3. a progressive angle, say 90 at the tip/tail and 89 centre.
I tried the 2nd half way through today, it feels wrong to me, the snow was very, very hardpack and the tail seems to wash out the turn. as the grip decreases through the turn.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My understanding is that when carving, you want the edge of your ski to form a nice even semi-circle (well, quite a bit less than a semi-circle). If the tips of your ski are sharp (right where they start to turn up), and they go into the snow a bit, they essentially put little hooks at the end of your semi-circle, which can cause you to wipe-out. If they are dull, there is much less effect. I could be totally wrong though.
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ponder, sounds reasonable to me but blunting tips and tails today I found it was the tail sharpness I was missing. Mostly this test was useless as all it was establishing was that I used to something else.
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discussing this with other bods today. apparently 88 is this year's flavour of edge angle. so I have something else to blame when things go awry
"de-tuning" - sharp tip seems to have given some folk (big build, heavy forepart pressurisers?) problems with the "hooking" effect. Sharp tail not produced any reported problems.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'll need to play with it more, but de-tuning the tail just doesn't feel right. But I'm tempted to taper the angle from 88 to 89 or 90. The tip just didn't feel any different to me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Powderhound, basically, it was OK over at Verbier. I posted some comments in the snow reports section and [url=http://snowski.blogspot.com/]here[/url|.
I think you're spot on about the length, my Volkls are really short (168) and that's about what I found.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ise, I had massive problems when slalom skis went down to below 160 and the tail gripped too much, because the moment you were thrown back by a rut or late on a gate and trying to get back on the line it was all over because the ski wouldn't slide, but continued to carve harder into the turn and a 15m radius turn at 30mph is not easy, or fun, if unexpected...
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Thanks again Powderhound. Our techie man here actually sells sidewall strippers to enable that to be done, but I think I'll leave mine pristine (well, until the rocks and queue stompers have their way anyhow  )
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You know it makes sense.
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Powderhound, basically, it was OK over at Verbier. I posted some comments in the snow reports section and here.
I think you're spot on about the length, my Volkls are really short (168) and that's about what I found. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I *kind of* apologise for bringing an old thread back - but a related question - Do I really have to buy a £60 Iron to wax my skis? not that I'm turning into a complete skinflint or anything. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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IanB, No . . . but you have to have a very sensitive nose as to what temperature your base material melts or peels off  A normal iron can get a LOT hotter than a ski/board tool. Use an old ski/boards to experiment b4 doing it for the first time with your new kit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmmm - £60 Irons cheaper than my only pair of (new) skis then...... *more* money - why didn't I just say yes to drugs? It'd have been cheaper than this...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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IanB, It just depends on what sort of relationship you want to have with your kit.
Lots of people are quite happy just chucking their stuff at a mechanic . . . you just need to find a good mechanic.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IanB, a £10 travel iron can be used but please start off on the lowest setting and very slowly build up the heat, when you get the right temp the wax should melt freely but without smoke
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What D G Orf said ^ and be generous with the molten wax when you drip it on before you press the skis (with the iron).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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IanB-as a self prep convert,courtesy of DGO,here's my method.£9.99 Challenge Travel Iron(Argos)on 1st setting.ToKo System3 Wax.Metal scraper.Nylon scrubbing brush.Edge file(88 in my case-Volkl 5star)Understanding wife/girlfriend whatever
The method is well explained,so wont go over old ground.For me,the salient points are:
Having watched a couple of 'experts' do it,they could liquefy the wax along virtually the whole length of the ski,by continually passing the iron back & forth.On my more cautious setting,I can liquefy about 1/2.After initially dripping the wax on,I keep the iron moving until the wax is fully liquid and flowing(most of any excess goes over the sides)I check the underside temp with the back of my hand.Have never had a ski hot;just pleasantly warm.I scrape whilst ski is still warm(within 5mins)Brush out when cool,going from tip to tail.
I use System3,with the red & yellow banded together.Was told by a 'tech' that this was as good a compromise as any for general skiing.
I used to tip and tail my skis(detune)Now I don't.There seems general confusion over this.I'm not experienced enough to give a definitive answer,I can only pass on what I've been told,and my own experience.The Volkl man at a recent ski show said no,don't do it.A ski tech I asked was not convinced your average skier would know either way.Having just got back from Les deux Alpes(1st time on untuned)I noticed a couple of things.On the long straights,my skis definitely felt 'firmer' on a slight traverse(ever so slightly on the edge)Fast,straight lining gave a bit if a trippy feeling(if you know what I mean)And on the steeper stuff,the skis turned very quickly,and sharply.Very little of the slippy slidey round the corner stuff.In fact,they were turning faster than me;so I got spat out the back a number of times  Bit of an odd sensation,but they felt very precise.Shame the same cant be said of me
Easiski tells me I tend to sit on my heels.Thats because I have a pair of,as yet,untamed beasts on my feet.I shall have to use a bit more harsh language on them next time
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Cheers for that, I'll be brave and give it a go..... and trust me, I'll be VERY careful!
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I bought a pair of skis in America last year and they detuned tips and tails before I took them out of the shop.
I have had an over zealous service before where tips and tails had been sharpened. They were fine whilst purely carving on hardpack snow, but as soon as any element of skid came in tip or tail would 'grab' and I'd get thrown off balance. (They were not racing/slalom skiis - Volant supercarves I think)
It could have been poor technique but I found that 5 mins with a handy rock taking a bit of the edge off tips and tails made all the difference.
So to answer Alan Craggs question, catching an edge to me means answer (a)
Dont think it would have made any difference in powder/slush
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