 Poster: A snowHead
|
Surely it could be done. OK, it would cost billions but a 50 euro each way toll would pull the money in and if built correctly would be much cheaper to service than the Tunnel and best of all, would wipe about 2 hours of a trip to the Alps.
Will it ever happen?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
No. it would be cheaper to dig another tunnel. (I think)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Too much danger from shipping colliding with it, The tidal rise and fall will put huge stress on it, The spans are to large and the cost would spiral out of control so no one would finance it look at the state of the Channel tunnel finances
And the French would blockade it with sheep every time they didn't like something
Never happen!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Do the Eurotunnel people make any check yet on cars going onto the train?
Whenever I have gone on it there has been absolutely no check or even questions. Just look at tickets and passports and straight on (once they even missed the passports). Nobody there to even looking as though they might search us.
It seems to me the easiest way to do a really high profile bomb attack would be to take a van packed with explosives under the channel and set it off. Perhaps they could even collapse the tunnel and let in the sea (?).
Contrast this with the extremely rigorous security on Eurostar.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 9-11-04 15:46; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
snowball, Thanks for sharing the amazing story of your Father, you must be so proud. Events like that should never be forgotton, it was a humbling reminder. Having just recovered from reading your info and viewing the photos, you have also highlighted how vulnerable we are when on Le shuttle.
Do you have any more gems to cheer me up 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Thanks. Well, I'll try my best.....
Did you already see my avalanche experience to encourage you next time you are thinking of skiing off-piste? And my even scarier Victoria fall so you can try extreme skiing with absolute confidence?
Yipee...Aaaaaaaaaaargh.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 10-11-04 10:44; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All cars are checked externally (underneath as well) as they are driven towards the shuttles.
I don't see why a bridge should be cheaper to maintain than the tunnel. Eurotunnel's problem is not running costs but the huge debts from building the thing. One of the concessions Eurotunnel has in return for taking on all this debt is the right to build a second crossing before anyone else. Can't see it happening at the moment. (Concession does expire sometime or other)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
up4it
This is the time an engineer comes in handy.
Yes technically it can be done but economically it cannot compete with a tunnel.
An easy demonstration is why don't we build a bridge to USA? Nothing to stop us putting huge supporting structures miles down the sea bed but who would pay for it?
The channel tunnel is one of the biggest engineering project and it doesn't even pay for itself. As far as I am aware none of the UK tolled tunnels or bridges does.
On the technical side I believe one may need to drive a challenger tank to cross this bridge in order not to be blown off the deck by the gale force wind. Even little Forth Road Bridge and Severn Bridge can't guarantee a all-year full availability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Pete Horn wrote: |
All cars are checked externally (underneath as well) as they are driven towards the shuttles.
|
Good. Thats new since I went early last year. We simply showed our tickets and passports, drove accross the parking areas, down a ramp and directly onto the train without stopping or seing a single official except the ones waving us onto the train.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
NO, it's always been there. It's done by camera, and obviously very discreetly. There's a section where you are asked to drive slowly.
I haven't been through to tunnel for a couple of years so hope I'm not out of date.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I've never been asked to drive slowly! There was nobody to ask. (where is it: by the ticket desk or by the train?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It is as you come out of the terminal area as you head towards the passport control areas. There is a cattle-grid sort of thing that you drive over with cameras around it. Initially I thought that it was just to log number plates, but they can do that at full speed, so there must be more going on and it makes sense if they scan the whole car and underneath as Pete Horn, says.
I also had the car examined physically further on by the passport control bit, so they are there checking!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| saikee wrote: |
up4it
The channel tunnel is one of the biggest engineering project and it doesn't even pay for itself. As far as I am aware none of the UK tolled tunnels or bridges does.
|
I heard a rumour that the company that built and operates the Dartford crossing bridge said they'd build another one for free because they made so much money from it! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
The Channel tunnel could make a profit were it not for the huge interest payments it has to make, other tunnels and bridges do make profits otherwise why would private industry compete to build them
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
On the tunnel, I've had my steering wheel, handbrake, fuel filler cap etc wiped with a cloth which was then taken away for analysis; I believe they were looking for traces of explosive. This seemed to be being done to a significant proportion of us, apparently randomly chosen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Yeah, I'd forgotten about the cloth wiping bit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| saikee wrote: |
Yes technically it can be done but economically it cannot compete with a tunnel.
An easy demonstration is why don't we build a bridge to USA?
|
Er...but there isn't an Atlantic tunnel either! (Not that I'm suggesting a channel bridge is economically feasible).
Perhaps the long term to solution is capsules "falling" through tunnels bored directly from point-to-point. 43 minutes from anywhere to anywhere if memory serves: and no C02 (or any other) emissions! Might need a little booster to overcome friction. God knows how much energy the tunnelling would consume though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
saikee, point taken re the winds/costs etc but how about this: A tunnel we can drive through, 3 lanes each way, 40mph speed limit, no bookings would be needed, no need to make sure you get there an hour before your'e due to leave, no delays for late trains/ferries.
London to Chamonix in about 9 1/2 hours door to door. I think it would stand a much higher chance of making a profit. Apart from security costs it dosn't cost much to run a motorway and many more people would use it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
up4it, it was considered, the design called for two artificial islands built a mile or two off shore with a tunnel connecting them but there are problems keeping the fumes down to an acceptable level which was the reason for using trains
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Glad to hear the security has improved so much. 4 years ago they didn't even look as passports!
Even now, though, we can set out from our place in north London at 6.00am and drive to the tunnel, drive down through France and arrive 5.00pm at Meribel (for example).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think that I saw a program that said that if you exploded something in the tunnel, it would act like a gun barrel and and funnel the force up and down the bore, without collapsing the tunnel due to the enormous pressure inwards on the concrete. It would cause devastation, but not be beyond repair.
Or it might all have been a dream. Or it might have been a program about a different tunnel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The biggest problem for the tunnel would be collision or derailment and subsequent fire of one of the shuttles especially if it occurred mid channel
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Kramer, quite right, even if the concrete shell is cracked the amount of water to get in would be minimal, fireworks and munition factories are designed along similar lines strong walls week roof explosion goes upwards or along the line of least resistance, there are ways of changing this but you would need to be in the tunnel itself to make them work not on one of the trains
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Kramer wrote: |
| if you exploded something in the tunnel, it would act like a gun barrel and and funnel the force up and down the bore, |
Oh yes, that makes sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I think I made a slip on the Dartford tunnel and the M25 bridge crossing as they are well used and profitable.
The finance of any large project must has a return. Any body deposits money in a bank expects to receive interest. Somebody somewhere has made a miscalculation and the investors of the channel tunnel are not going to see their money back.
Got a friend who bought over 2000 shares when the channel tunnel was floated. His money has one down the drain but being the first lot of investors his shares entitles him to travel indefinitely through tunnel at a cost of £1 per car per journey, even fully laiden with passengers.
He lives in Asford and does his weekend shoping in France ever since!
As fate has it it was him who introduced me to skiing and got me into a mobile home in Chamonix.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Russell, If memory serves correctly, there was a fire a few years ago which destroyed a few car wagons and damaged the track. As far as I remember, everybody managed to escape into the service tunnel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Holland, Yes thats true but the intense heat case damage to to concrete lining I believe they had to spray layers of concrete over the damaged portions. The damage was small compared to the size of the tunnel. This fire was case by a fault on one of the lorries and the driver was able to stop the train at an access point to the escape/service tunnel A far greater danger would be from a terrorist bomb on the track or one the locomotives causing derailment then you have the speed of the train adding to the damage and injury would be far greater
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
On the subject of lorries and security, the checks are random and relatively superficial. A full turn-out is rare. With a payload of 20 tons of, say, groupage, a miscellaneous collection of sealed consignments in a single lorry containing everything from machinery to fertiliser, from dozens, even hundreds of different consignors, it would be impossible impossible to check the security of each item.
The same applies to cars and vans. There are ways to conceal the likes of explosives other than the underside of the vehicle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
PG, I thought all vehicles went through an explosives sniffer that can detect minute particles around a Vachel even if sealed deep inside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Russell, In theory the detection systems are effective - as with X-ray checks of small items hidden within densely packed containers going by air, for example. But systems are there to be beaten, and there have been plenty of security breaches. Otherwise, how would so many illegal immigrants have been able to get into the UK via this method?
The authorities are always looking to upgrade security measures, but the determined wrongdoer often seems able to remain one step in front...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Russell,  Somehow, I doubt it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
The latest people detectors work on exhaled CO2 and / or heart beats. Apparently very sensitive and effective. But detecting illegal and explosive substances is another story.... as you say a determined smuggler will always find a way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
4 Days before he went on holiday a friend of mine was charging his camera batteries and fertilizing the lawn at the same time, the traces of fertilizer from his fingers on the batteries were picked up by the sniffers at Luton!! It took a good 15mins to go through everything in his bag and a lot of paperwork was filled in before the ordeal was over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Never mind the tunnel - use Speedferries - £50 return car + passengers & no limit on how long you're away. the price is the same regardless. I don't have shares, but this is the biz!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My gran was on of the first investors in tunnel shares. Do I have to take her with me to get the £1 each way deal?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
No Alex, you take me (and ply me with food & drink for the whole weekend. You can start tonight with a GFB in The Waterloo ).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seriously though, she would have to have held 1500 shares continuously from the start & applied for a card (with photo). She would have to go with you, it's the shareholder who has the concession, doesn't matter whose car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Dont know about you,but it makes me a little nervous.