 Poster: A snowHead
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I can see that this is a subject that should be discussed here and on the technical forum - who wants to go first ??? Please read my scrappy post on ankle flex and short tunrs first...then if anyone is slightly interested I will compile a proper post...and even try to type it well...I have finished gluing
the vase my cat broke now.....OK................whose first ????????
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi david...well there is a chnace you are almost perfectly balanced in your boots etc already...it happens but is rare....REF ramp angle first....if you think for a moment though....if you changed from a pair of skis with flat bindings to ones with an 8mm heel raise...and you had size 5 feet...the effect is huge....alignment is different and a much more subtle effect...just correcting ramp angle makes the majority of balance issues go away...but I am not sure of what your definiton of tolerably well is...but if your skis run totally flat when you want them to without you having to make any compensating movements everything is more or less in order....but if one ski is tracking on one or other of its edges when you want them flat and you either have to flex your knee laterally you are putting undue stress on the knee joint and that is undesirable..in my view dangerous and unpleasant. If you haven't had your equipment set up and haven't tried there isn't much to say - there was a time when everyone thought the world was flat....put yr skis in the bindings and out of interest measure the difference between the bottom of your ski boot heel and toe to the base of the ski. My old rossi 9S with pro axial plate bindings were 8 mm higher at the heel...the race dept skis are flat in order the skier can set them according to his needs...quite often toe hig...the binding manufacturers are now looking at this issue and things are changing...but as i said in my other post every single pupil I have seen has needed to change the ramp and whe done the results are very clear..to them aswell as me..alignment has different issues...there is a variable that makes me uncomfortable to recommend alignment (left/right) without knwoing why the skier is out of alignmnet naturally..it could be injury related, could be poor natural posture that should be corrected by an osto for example...a whole host of things...alos the skiers own natural alignment can change daily...and if the ski/boot/binding alignment is suddenly changed and the skier has not got used to it he or she can catch an edge and so on....I have fixed my own alignment by feel..niot with a machine...I don't have a view on those...but ramp angle is critical..as i say you sound like you have it just fine and if you don't get tired skiing at a high level no need to fix it if it isn't broken....maybe I will sneak up on you skiing one day and take an anonymous look at you and decide myself eh ?
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krunchie63, I think my alignment is probably OK, I don't get stressed knees and I can flatten my skis quite happily. Ramp angle is another issue though. It is interesting as I much prefer my old Tecnica Explosivs to my Icon Alus and there's a definite difference in forward lean - which may be today with sole angle rather than cuff angle.
Toe high for racing sounds interesting, what does it help?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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is there anywhere in the 3v which can check alignment, do boot planing etc and not charge an arm and a leg? I am pretty certain my skis never track true and the problem is exaggerated on my fat skis (110mm), My knees are also usually put under an enormous amount of stress, it feels like someone is pulling from directly above and below the knee cap.
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You came back fast ! There could be a number of reasons to have the toe higher than the heel...only slightly mind..but thre main reason is to put the individual skier in the position that is most comfortable and efficient for him or her...and if the anlge of the cuff of the boot forces the skier to flex the knees more than they are comfortable with whe standing on flat ground the only solution is to raise the toe - which is in fact what I have done...it is a big advantage in powder for example too...many skiers have their powder/off piste skis toe high...it enables you to get the pressure off the front of your skis without sitting back but by simply standing up straight which is much less tiring - it will also make your skis run much faster on the straights especially on those hideous long flat paths that link most of the Portes du Soleil...a bloody good base set up helps too of course !
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krunchie63, you could also take a bus?
So ramp angle is really a comfort thing, interesting. I find my old tecnicas more comfortable - and relaxing to ski in as I'm already that bit more forward - which is how I like it. My newer ones allow me to get that way inclined but I need to work a tiny little bit harder.
What I find interesting is that it is detrimental to some individuals skiing. I can well imagine it - but still...
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
......Likewise, I've never considered ramp angles although it has been suggested that different binding one are responsible for me preferring my old Rossis to Sophie's Volkls. That I think is somewhat suspect as I now have Marker bindings on my Nordicas and I like them just fine enough  |
David Murdoch, you wouldn't notice the difference between the Marker's & the Look's/Rossi's have the same delta angle:
Atomic +2mm
Salomon +2mm
Tyrolia +3mm
Look/Rossi, Marker & VIST + 5mm (I've measured a number of Look/Rossi's at closer to 6mm)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It isn't really just about comfort - if your natural ready position is relaxed your movements will be more efficient and less tiring..and more accurate...so that does make it comfortable i guess....it's not just because I am lazy but i know that's where you are leading.
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This spyderjon chap is one who knows what this is all about !
Edmundh009......be careful even if there is someone there....can't you check it yourself first ? Check your footbeds are correct first then make sure nothing in the boot is tilting you one way or other...then look at boot cuff....just do one small thing at a time...if you live in the alps then you have time to do that. Don't change more than one thing at a time...it leads to tears.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| ..... I am also completely unconvinced about the requirement to mount the bindings using a Campbell Ski Balancer |
David Murdoch, of the testing to date I've done with 38 people on my balancer then you'd probably fall in with the 30 people who were fine with the factory binding position. Of the 8 who'd benefit from a binding move 5 of them went forward 2-3cm (Atomic, Volkl & K2 owners) & 3 of them went back 1-2cm (all Scott Mission owners).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, Just interest, were the 5 people moved forward all with small feet?, as i am finding all my skis except rossignol bandits i have to move forward about 1.5 to 2cm (my boot sole is 284mm) to feel comfortable.
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In a couple of weeks I will have been fitted & aligned in to my new Atomic boots by CEM & Andy McCann. I'll be taking my new VIST mounted skis with me so Colin & Andy can set the boot's forward lean/zappa angle correctly in conjunction with the binding's delta angle. Previously I was on Atomic bindings which had 3mm less Delta angle so it will be interesting to see if howmy new boots compare/feel to my current Tecnica boots.
I'll then re-test on my balancer which will also be interesting as my new boots are 7mm shorter in shell length & I've lost over 11kg in weight. I'll also re-test in my Tecnica's as that will give me a like for like comparison re the affect of the weight loss.
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You know it makes sense.
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carroz, boot lengths of 288mm, 305mm, 314mm x 2 & 335mm. I like you're thinking as of course smaller feet will cause a greater delta angle. I know that David Murdoch has small feet so combined with the Rossi/Marker's that's quite a lot of forward angle. Maybe CEM could tell us if race boots (which DM has a preference for) tend to have less forward lean than normal punter boots which would offset this?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Having been the subject of an alignment grind, I'm now very much in favour.
I'm slightly knock kneed, although it took the alignment job to tell me. The before and after difference was marked, both in the added stability I felt it created and the ability to engage the inside skis edge on hard snow.
The downside is very slippy ski boot soles 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Several of the kids that I coach at Castleford have their bindings mounted with the heels 9mm higher than the toe and fairly small boots. I'm working on getting this reduced. I have also done work on alignment with several of them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Edmundh009, odd, it almost sounds as though you might be sitting back too much? Do your thighs hurt too? There's an easier fox for that than mechanical engineering 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My thighs never really hurt much when skiing,
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow , mega -impressed by both these threads .. and what is more I'm beginning to understand them ... I really must get to 'The Zoo' soon .. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Edmundh009, probably not that then!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon - the shaft on atomic race dept boots (CS130 for example) than the tourist boots of previous seasons and they also have a totally flat ramp..ie no ramp..inside where the tourist boots do....but I think you knew that. maybe the readers here don't realise that the same model boot has exactly the same shaft angle irrespective of size..so for someone of 5 ft with a size 5 foot their knee will be much further back than someone of 6ft 3 whose lower leg may be more than 6 inches longer than my midget example...opps that's my girlfriend...people with short arms and legs..(short levered is the term) have far fewer problems with posture and balance and with the angle of the boot shaft...the 6ft 3 guy may well find his knee is over his toes or even further forward and there is nothing he can do to change the angle of the boot itself. I am writing this after a few glases of wine so it is more garbled than usual. Blah.
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Spyderjon, do you also check ski thickness on forward mounts?
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comprex, in what respect? Do you mean as the toe piece moves forward on a flat mounted ski it can drop lower due to the downward curvature of the ski or ski thickness versus binding screw length were the ski might be thinner? Anyway, yes to both.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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krunchie63, I can see you & I are going to get on 
Have you seen http://www.mccannix.com re Andy McCann's alignment work which can be booked via CEM so you can have the fitting & alignment done together.
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spyderjon, yes to both, particularly #1 on twin tip or #2 on powder ski mounts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| comprex wrote: |
| spyderjon, yes to both, particularly #1 on twin tip or #2 on powder ski mounts. |
Difference re #1 is usually minimal but if a mm or more I can shim up to level & use longer screws if necessary. For #2 I shorten the binding screws a tad if necessary - I often have to do this when flat mounting on thin fat skis, especially for big footed users on the rearmost heelpiece screws. Also often have trim down the toe screws on Fritschi's so that they can be mounted without the toe spacer as the binding is too flat & needs a bit of delta angle.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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krunchie63, I'm a midget...
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You know it makes sense.
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This is a very Epic thread.
Personally I like the John Daly approach, Grip It and Rip It. Works pretty well when applied to boots / bindings / skis too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| krunchie63, I'm a midget... |
.......Are you trying to chat me up ??
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Poster: A snowHead
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| spyderjon wrote: |
krunchie63, I can see you & I are going to get on
Have you seen http://www.mccannix.com re Andy McCann's alignment work which can be booked via CEM so you can have the fitting & alignment done together. |
Yes - thanks - Certainly looks like the right place to go especially for those unfortunate enough to live in Britain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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krunchie63, 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| krunchie63, |
...Aha.. you are here. On a serious note...what's the local weather forecast where you are for this week ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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krunchie63, don't know abot 2 weeks ago but doing just fine right now...(at least, where we need it to be (weather I mean...))
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| krunchie63 wrote: |
| spyderjon - the shaft on atomic race dept boots (CS130 for example) than the tourist boots of previous seasons and they also have a totally flat ramp..ie no ramp..inside where the tourist boots do....but I think you knew that. maybe the readers here don't realise that the same model boot has exactly the same shaft angle irrespective of size..so for someone of 5 ft with a size 5 foot their knee will be much further back than someone of 6ft 3 whose lower leg may be more than 6 inches longer than my midget example...opps that's my girlfriend...people with short arms and legs..(short levered is the term) have far fewer problems with posture and balance and with the angle of the boot shaft...the 6ft 3 guy may well find his knee is over his toes or even further forward and there is nothing he can do to change the angle of the boot itself. I am writing this after a few glases of wine so it is more garbled than usual. Blah. |
interesting point about the race tech boot, i am right now sitting with a race tech shell on the balance neutraliser, with the besboard removed from the shell it has a net ramp of 4degrees, put it back in the shell and measure with a bullseye level the angles vary along the length of the boot from around 1degree at the heel to 4.2 just in front of the heel to 3degee in the mid foot, it is quite difficult to get these mesurements 100% accurate but unless my smart tool digital level is vastly inaccurate there is certainly not a flat base board inside the race tech boots
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Old bump,
My thighs burn when skiing, however it's not when skiing bumps or railing on groomers, it's when I have to ski them nasty trails, I cannot seem to find a comfortable position and my thighs feel it, before people jump on the back seat wagon, yes some times I get pushed back in variable conditions but I know how to get back over the centre of my skis,
I kind of feel my lower leg bones are pushed forward when just simply cruising along, could this be ramp angle?
I'm currently skiing some head monster im78's with a tyrolia demo binding on them, boots are atomic hawx 100,
I've got some Coreupt slashers out here with me with marker griffons on if we get a decent dump of snow I'll try these and see if that feels the same,
Cheers in advance
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Huckacliff duckabranch, as a quick test put a boot into your bindings and then measure from the base of the ski to the base of the boot at both the heel and where the boot rests on the anti friction device. For zero Delta angle these two dimensions should be the same. Most likely you will find that heel height is a few mm higher.
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Huckacliff duckabranch, try playing about with the spoiler on the back of the boot, maybe move it down a notch if you can or have big/low calfs or even remove it to see if there's any difference. Make sure your top two buckles are done up enough to support you, only a possible quick fix that you've probably looked at already, but worth a mention.
I have played a lot with this in the past, but ultimately it wasn't really my fwd/aft alignment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Unless you race and can consistently run the same time through the same pattern of gates, fine tuning suggested is just rule 33 and should be ignored. How can you tell if it has improved your skiing otherwise? Stick to an instructor telling you what movements improve your skiing before worrying about tyre pressures.
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Cynic, complete nonsense.... Alignment and equipment setup can dramatically help skiers of all abilities.
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FAQ
