 Poster: A snowHead
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As you ill no doubt know from another post on the forum, after a long (long, long, long) wait, the Dark Summer website is finally up and running. We will be adding more and more to it as the season progresses.
So have a butchers and critique away.
Cheers
Zack
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Zack, I'm on 1mb/s broadband and your site is ssssssssssssssssssssslowwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
Flash (and it's rarely used well) is not always the best route.
Tried access on dial-up and it's just useless!
Have a rethink . . . at the moment it's about as exciting as listening to mud dry
EDIT 08:00 still not getting any quicker, I'm getting anything up to 10 seconds between page refreshes on my Mac . . . update . . . it's ok on the PC . . . hmmm must get to the bottom of this. 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 10-09-04 8:12; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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???? are you embedding a flash mov inside an HTML frame ??? I'll lookat the source code next week - I've a weekend of fun to prep for!!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Good luck with this venture, Zack. The site seems to work for me OK, although it keeps saying "loading" every time I click into a new part of the site. The text on the top of some of the pages is cropped by the top of the screen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I didn't find it too slow (though not exactly quick either).
I found on many pages, the scroll bar didn't take me all the way to the bottom of the page.
Nice Vibe though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pretty quick first thing this morning... No other problems with the site, everything worked fine. Looks good, all a bit 'exclusive' though. Global appeal a must, given the niche you're catering for?
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I found it as quick as any other site = straight in, no time delays. Did experience the "loading" when trying the list on the left, but it was fairly instantaneous, also didn't seem to have the same problems as either U or DG regarding the top/bottom of pages. Strange that our experiences were all so different. Still, all publicity is good publicity...
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Quick here on broadband. Sorry to say though, looks shite in opera, don't use frames, leant how to code properly, or find a web developer who'll develop for the web rather than trying to simoply put your paper based stuff onto the web - it doesn;t work that way, y'know
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque, theres no Flash in there, it's all coded in XHTML and CSS.
nbt, No frames either. If you could send me a screenshot from Opera I would be very grateful.
I know support is lacking in a couple of browsers as I have no Mac to test it on at the moment.
I agree it does run a little slow as the background images are a little big, but all speed tests indicate that the maximum wait should be around 8 or 9 seconds and that is on a half-powered dial-up.
admin, I will have a look at the cropping on the pages. Sorry about that.
PG, can you expand on 'exclusive' for me. Thanks
Thanks all for the feedback
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DarkSummer, "Sick" seemed to be a favourite term in one or two profiles! What I meant is that it'll appeal to a pretty limited section of the skiing public, and not necessarily the ones with money. But I suppose you've done some market research to establish that there is a big enough market out there among young freeriders? Still, can't see many skiers outside youngsters/fanatics wanting to subscribe, unless you intend broadening its appeal a little.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well the profile section of the site has been cmpleted by the skiers themselves. I don't really want to censor those as they are a personal experssion of those skiers.
However, if you delve a little deeper you will see that Warren Smith, Chris Fecher, Jim Adlington, and Dave Young have profiles on there which are more mature (well a little).
The nature of the magazine is one of freeriding. There is no age restriction on that. The guy who taught me to ski was ripping up the off-piste well into his 60s and loved every second of it. I don't see any reason why a non-youngster(choosing words carefully) would not want to read something about the sport they enjoy.
I may be wrong, but I guess time will tell.
And if people don't want to subscribe they can simply pick up the free copies in the shops (subscription costs only cover postage and offer the convenience of delivery to your door)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DarkSummer, Wish you every success. It's not easy for mags to survive on advertising revenue alone.
What I meant by exclusivity is that the content of the sample mag you sent me seemed to target the young, the cool and the fanatic. It could well be over the heads of a large proportion of winter sports practitioners..
But then, as you said it's aimed at the UK freeride movement. Hope that's enough!
I liked it though... reckon it would be an idea to try to get it done on glossy - the photos would look much, much better. If I get some decent shots from this part of the world over the season, I'll email them over!
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You know it makes sense.
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PG, Thanks. It was an unfortunate shame about the first issue, as we had to pull a 16-page section due to funding. As it turned out (and we only noticed this afterwards) it was the more generic stuff with a wider readership (avalanche articles, how to take better photos, etc). This should be re-dressed in our next issue.
Our decision to go with the matt paper took us a while to resolve, but in the end we decided that skiing isn't glossy and pretty, it is rough and has an edge to it. We felt this was reflected well in the paper choice. There is also no reason why the pictures can't look just as good on that style of paper. It was unfortunate that our printers were rushed and did not have experience of printing on that type of paper, however we have been working with them to get it right for next time. Also next time, we will be having a semi-gloss cover on the front, to make the cover stand out a little more.
Thanks again for your input, it is things like that that help us to get better.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Zack - good looking site. You sent me a copy of the magazine a few months ago, which I enjoyed too.
Some Mac info: Explorer and Netscape work perfectly, the site loads instantly and all the links work straight away. Safari doesn't work, the site loads differently, drops down the page and hangs on loading. Hope this helps. I'm on broadband by the way.
Masque, which browser and OS are you using on your Mac?
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Poster: A snowHead
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That's great, thanks. I am looking into the Safari one at the moment, but without a Mac I am having to beg, borrow and steal to get on one. Should be sorted in a couple of days, (I hope!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It’s my security settings and popup blocker that’s causing the slowness and it kills the forum window.
Design notes: White text on a pale background is notoriously difficult to read.
Why the letterbox page form? It’s very easy to set the page to scale to people’s screen resolution or browser size.
On a personal note, as a ‘darksider’ I find the appropriation of ‘dark’ in the title . . . just a little . . . a tad . . . taking t’piddle! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, the letterbox page design was taken from the requirements spec of one of the DS directors. Web design notoriously has inherent compromise.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nick Zotov, on the SCGB link issue... It may be because SCGB won't put a link back.
I know this is the case with other sites who have tried to do a link exchange with them in the past. The instructions were: You MUST use a particular logo, keep it at the original size, and MUST use a particular sentence describing SCGB beside the link, and for doing that, you will NOT receive a link back.
Link exchanges are a great way of getting your google count up, but if one side refuses to link back to you, or says they will only do it for a fee, then it's a pointless exercise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Good points. We are going through a similar exercise on our company site. My own view is that - quite apart from search enngine advantages, its good to provide a useful service, regardless of mutuality. I cannot see how any url owner can insist on how a link is shown and described. I shall take up your points on the SCGB site, where I have already suggested there should be a links page. I think snowheads should have one, too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nice. Few comments for what they're worth.
Technical (Mac-only, OS 10.3.4, 2Mb ADSL) - Safari wrongly positions your left hand navigation panel and party obscures the strapline. Also wrongly positions the main table maybe 200 pixels down the page. The CSS are thrown out in Safari which might also explain why it shows Times rather than Arial (?) and wrongly postions some images (latest issue). IE resolves most of these things, plus load times are a bit snappier. Probably worth trying to fix as MS have discontinued suport for IE in the Mac.
Design - like the letterbox format (used it for my own site...), not sure about the duotone sepia look overall. Kind of "combat" look maybe? Probably good for the demographic. Really needs a punchy image on r/h side to lift the page, so is better when that's there. Navigation is clear and consistent as is the architecture (news/old news for example).
Content - love to see stronger imagery on home page. Homepages make or break a site. These sites are about evocation/aspiration as much as content, and the snow awards logo is nice and all, but show me a mountain. Volume of copy seems good for a launch issue. Maybe some more downloads (movies etc) would be good.
Other - there's a very odd site at darksummer.com...
Wish you every success, hope the above was vaguely useful.
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michael stocking, Yeah I noticed that darksummer.com site. It nevers seems to change yet the guy keeps renewing it. Annoying.
We are working on the homepage. It was kind of a last minute rush (really poor excuse I know) to get it live as we need to concentrate more time on the magazine at the moment.
Downloads are on their way. There will be downloadable pages from past mags on there to aid our international readers.
Had never really noticed the 'combat' look. I always thought it had more of a hessian feel to it.
As mentioned above, working on the Safari issues, but struggling through lack of Mac at the moment.
Thanks for the feedback. Gratefully appreciated.
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Nick Zotov & Wear The Fox Hat, There is actually not politics behind the lack of an SCGB link, just a lack of sleep and RSI when adding the links. Thanks for pointing it out.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DarkSummer, if you want to post incremental builds somewhere and get me to take a look at it send me a PM. Am away till Wednesday now though.
Maybe hessian is right. More sackcloth and ashes than fatigues and M16s.
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michael stocking, thanks for the offer. I am hoping to get into work over the weekend and us their new G4 test box. Just have to motivate myself to go into the office on a Saturday.
If you can check when you get back that would be super.
Thanks again
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Zack - glad to see you're still working hard in the day job 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yep, got a new one behind the centre for popular music working as a Java Developer. Woohoo, finally using that degree.
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DarkSummer, congrats. About time too 
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You know it makes sense.
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DarkSummer, best wishes with the job, the site and the mag. The forum doesn't open automatically in a separate window - but the 'click here' bit works. <<< Edit - just noticed Masque's earlier post about the popup blocker stopping the forum opening. Could be same thing >>>
Your member list is viewable by unregistered guests - not sure if your people are paranoid about that ??
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 13-09-04 12:02; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Nick Zotov, on the SCGB link issue... It may be because SCGB won't put a link back.
I know this is the case with other sites who have tried to do a link exchange with them in the past. The instructions were: You MUST use a particular logo, keep it at the original size, and MUST use a particular sentence describing SCGB beside the link, and for doing that, you will NOT receive a link back.
Link exchanges are a great way of getting your google count up, but if one side refuses to link back to you, or says they will only do it for a fee, then it's a pointless exercise. |
The Ski Club and Natives do like freeloading. In the purist traditions of the Internet they both love to 'borrow' other people's content but are very reluctant to even make a link back to where they took stuff from.
Personally I think reciprocal links are a bit lame unless they benefit the person visiting your site. At PistHors.com we have had a link to the DarkSummer site since last year. We did this because they looked like an interesting site that complements our own. I'm pleased they have finally vincidated that decision.
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Poster: A snowHead
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DarkSummer, checked the site today and the positioning of the main table, font issues and navigation positioning all seem fine in safari, and havn't been thrown out in IE.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Great. Thanks for taking the time to check again for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Its a girl thing? What the? sounds like a tampax advert- sorry but it does- great idea though
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I looked at it on Broadband (Mozilla) and it was fine. I found the out of focus menu on the left irritating though - maybe I'm just getting old. Otherwise I liked the style in general.
Good luck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Nick Zotov, on the SCGB link issue... It may be because SCGB won't put a link back.
I know this is the case with other sites who have tried to do a link exchange with them in the past. The instructions were: You MUST use a particular logo, keep it at the original size, and MUST use a particular sentence describing SCGB beside the link, and for doing that, you will NOT receive a link back.
Link exchanges are a great way of getting your google count up, but if one side refuses to link back to you, or says they will only do it for a fee, then it's a pointless exercise. |
Laura Chamberlain of the SCGB dropped me a message - in part on this, on Monday, 13 September. I have been away, so have only just seen it. She said:
"We certainly don't impose any restriction on how a site links to us - we welcome anyone to link to <http://www.skiclub.co.uk> www.skiclub.co.uk
- the more visitors the better. Please pass this onto Snowheads if you wish."
HTH
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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very good, I see why it appeared there's frames on it though. As a technical point that amount of Javascript is not going to be good for multiple browsers, in fact something simple like an iframe would be more likely to work across multiple browsers I'd guess.
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ise, the JavaScript only controls the rollover menu systems. The menus work without JavaScript, just not in such a pretty way. The JavaScript it uses for the images is pretty basic stuff too which pretty much all browers can deal with (especially from the past few years).
The whole positioning of the site and making it appear in the two frames is all done in CSS. If the brower support for CSS isn't there then it should load up a totally unstyled version. So, theoretically it should be viewable in any browser (including mobile phones, screen readers, etc - although why anyone would want to surf the net on their phone is still beyond me).
I am still wary of using iframes. While IE supports them from v3, Netscape only support it from v6, and Mozilla from M12.
Thanks for the comment everyone. I am very grateful
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DarkSummer, interesting, my random sample of 10000 users shows no iframe issues so far  CSS is about a much of a disaster as javascript in terms of multiple browser support in my experience, depends on the slice of users and browsers you take of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise, Yeah, I know what you mean. As evidenced above, I am having issues on some browsers as this is the first full CSS site I have done, but it is actually pretty good at getting complete coverage. You can make it serve no stylesheet (or an alternate one) if a particular browser doesn't support the styles you are trying to use. That way you can ensure that absolutely everyone can see your page (albeit not as pretty as you would like on egacy browsers), and properly formatted XHTML means that the search engine spiders are happier. It's a wave of the future (and will hopefully get better in the next gen browsers)
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FAQ
