 Poster: A snowHead
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A sort of on piste / off piste question here; anybody know the "environmental impact" of ski-ing or more generally websites that give you an overview of such things?
I guess what I'm after is something along the lines of a catholic confessional / penance; if I install a super efficient boiler in my house does it offset the emissions "cost" of my 4 ski flights a year?
Now I can see there are some problems here right from the start, for example, what is "environmental impact"? Do I mean "carbon emissions"? However I know the snowHeads are a resourceful bunch and I'm sure some of you have considered this before!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I heard that if you fly to the US and back, you should forgo car use for a year (merely on CO2 grounds - so you have to first decide if you fall into the AGW or AGW-sceptic camp).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Several areas I can think of to consider, firstly you have the method of getting to the resort and how much damage that does, next you have the consideration of artificial snow cover, some resorts use adatives in their snow making systems which can result in the killing off of any underlying flora, wheras others just use water. Then you have the enviromental impact of the lifts etc, then the impact of all the extra trafic over slopes that would otherwise be virgin snow and how that effects the melting rate come spring. Then what about the construction of teh resort itself and the impact that creates on the surroundings.
I guess worst case would be a long flight, to a purpose built (concrete) resort, where they use lots of snow cannons with adatives in the water.
Best case would be a train journey (powered by hydro power or similar) to an old village resort with minimal use of snow cannons using just plain water, few pistes and not many lifts
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Train to the Lakes, then?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Probably Austria or Switzerland both of which seem more concerned about the enviroment than say France
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skanky, I'm not totally sure, but I heard you can pay for two trees to be planted in a rain forest which negates the CO2 useage and you can drive again... 
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I suppose it's cheating if I don't drive anyway...
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It's estimated that one tree absorbs 20kg of CO2 each year. A single one-way transatlantic flight produces ca. 2.5 tonnes of CO2. Assuming for the sake of argument that there's an average of 250 passengers on each flight, that's 10kgs per head each way, ie 1 tree per holiday in Vail.....
There's a useful site on sustainable tourism generally here...
And this on ski area development in the Alps...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting discussion, its puts Scottish skiing in a more favourable environmental perspective.
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Not for me it hasn't!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ian, the plane is going anyway. You saved the earth single-handed by not going by car. Well done.
(How is the luxury executive flat?)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Get on your bicycle and head for the Alps now to witness the environmental impact we are making. Sad to see the rhododendron, which would normally grace the mountains in summer, rapidly disappearing as too many early season skiers insist on going off-piste when there is not sufficient snow cover. Should ski/board schools be encouraged to promote a greater awareness of nature to their clients or should ski areas introduce more zoning....closing off certain areas??
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Hi Mac46, welcome to snowHeads 
Are rhododendrons native to the Alps? Last time I was walking in Snowdonia they seemed to be everywhere and I know they're not native to North Wales!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Here is an example from down under in today's news concerning one particular environmental "impact"....
The headline is "Native animals threatened by busy ski season". Not a problem I've noticed in France though, and I suspect the motorways in Oz account for a lot more animal fatalities than the roads to the resorts....
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ian Hopkinson, I thought R. hirsutum was a variety native to the European Alps, by the way?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mac46 wrote: |
| ..... Sad to see the rhododendron, which would normally grace the mountains in summer, rapidly disappearing as too many early season skiers insist on going off-piste when there is not sufficient snow cover. Should ski/board schools be encouraged to promote a greater awareness of nature to their clients or should ski areas introduce more zoning....closing off certain areas?? |
Pity off-piste skiing can't knock out the rhododendron in Snowdonia, where it is a real menace. More about the problem here: http://www.habitas.org.uk/gardenflora/rhododendron1.htm Unless the rhodendrons you refer to are native to the Alps - don't think they are, but open to correction - you should perhaps be grateful to the skiers.
That said, I do agree about the need to be considerate to the local flora when skiing off-piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG, looks like you right about R. hirsutum - well I never! And I see it also has the common name "Alpine Rose" ="Alpenrose".
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| Ian Hopkinson wrote: |
| PG, looks like you right about R. hirsutum - well I never! And I see it also has the common name "Alpine Rose" ="Alpenrose". |
Yup. I've been eductated - again 
More here: http://www.rosebay.org/chapterweb/spechir.htm.
Still don't like what's happening in N Wales, though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowHeads are certainly educational!
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Oh yes 
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Here's a news item from Australia today, which covers a sad and indirect effect of the lure of the mountains. Big snowfall, hungry animals and motor traffic have led to substantial roadkill on the route to the Snowy Mountains.
Having taken that road, which takes about 6 hours from Sydney via Canberra, I can confirm that dead kangaroos on the road are a sad sight indeed.
This report is from ABC News Online.
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Did that one a bit higher up DG.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry about that. Re. the point you made, PG, you're quite right. The frequency of roadkill in Oz is quite striking. Maybe marsupials are mesmerised by car headlights etc.
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Or maybe Aussies can't drive with due care and attention?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skanky wrote: |
No idea on non-visual impact. |
But you could imagine?
How many Chamois, Ibex, Ptarmigans, Foxes, Hares etc do you see roaming around ski resorts, which, before they were built, would have been their homes?
Some, but not very many. On the other hand some species have done quite well feeding off skiers and with the return of the wolf to the French Alps they may soon do well feeding on skiers :-).
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davidof, I've seen chamois close to the village at Saas Fee - I was amazed to see how well camofluaged a dark brown animal could be on white snow! From the tracks in the snow there is obviously other wildlife around (and our Austrian ski instructor used to shoot it!).
I wonder if anyone has done a study to look at diversity in the wider ski domain (rather than just the resorts) and compared against similar terrain not covered by a lift system.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, oh I can imagine, but I don't even have an educated guess. I've seen photographs of Chamois hunting around Courmayeur before the skiing started and I've seen the numbers of Chamois heads on the walls of the Hotel Camosci (Chamois) and they looked to be difficult animals to hunt then, so I can't tell whether not seeing them around the slopes is that different (esp. considering the noise). You see plenty of tracks though. However that contradicts what I'd imagine the affects to be.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Man and the environment. A very trick subject. There is a fuzzy line between treating the countryside as a Museum and Environment vandalism. We certainly alter plant and animal populations, but on the whole when one lot goes, another steps into the new niche (as Davidof points out). Good? Bad? Or just different.... As I said: tricky.
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Poster: A snowHead
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As far as I understand England has very little landscape that is unaltered by man - I'm not sure if the same is true of the Alps. Personally I'd be very worried with an attitude that says, effectively, "we can do what we want because nature will find a way to the niche we create"
On the other hand, pandas are clearly destined for extinction regardless of the help or otherwise of man and should be left to it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My skiing usually has a huge impact on the environment. Lots of energy required to drag my huge carcass up the hill, and generally lots of big dents in the hill om the way down!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are very few Irish Hares left in N. Ireland, due to modern Agricultural Practices, though there are plenty of rabbits. The one place where the hares thrive is Aldergrove Airport where they are free to graze on the natural grass, and are a pleasant site taxi-ing out bound for Grenoble!
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