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Excercise to learn to turn the inner ski

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So, I think I know the theory and all, but when I turn the part of my brain that controls movement refuses to communicate with theorist part. What happens is that my inner ski gets stuck and I need to lift it to complete the turn.

I'm looking for an exercise that will fix that.
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Balance earlier and more on your downhill (outer / lower) ski.
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@ittayd, Stop thinking. Relax. Skiing is easy, just do this...


http://youtube.com/v/wNbEp1SRVag


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 2-03-18 18:36; edited 1 time in total
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@ittayd, Point your inside knee where you want to go.
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Similar to Harb's phantom move


http://youtube.com/v/Kpl3KeUi7wA
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J-turns. Ski straight down the fall line at the side of the piste for a few meters and then do one turn towards the other side of the piste. Keep going until you go up hill and stop. Check over your shoulder before setting off that the coast is clear. Then repeat going the other way

This exercise gives you a lot of time in the turn. Often beginners struggle to achieve a carve at the beginning of the turn but manage to get up on the edges half way around. By repeating the exercise you hopefully get up on the edges earlier and earlier. Another advantage is that you know that you are going to stop, so there is no fear factor and you can concentrate entirely on the turn.

Looking at your tracks in the snow will tell you a lot about the turn. How wide your stance is, whether a ski is skidding, whether you have more pressure on the outside ski and so on.

To turn up the heat you can aim to steadily increase the edge angle through the turn. Eventually you will discover where the limit is and fall over. But normally it takes several goes for this to happen because a beginner's idea of a lot of edge angle is actually not very much angle at all. Try it and see!

M
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Usually caused by leaning back / having too much weight on the inside ski.
Try to lift the tail of the inside ski earlier in the turn, once you can lift the tail before the fall line you should be standing better on your outside ski and be able to bring / keep the inside ski parallel easily.
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Warren Smith has some videos on his site re thigh steering which might help. Skiing on one ski is a tough exercise for finding your outside edge!
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In one of my lessons it was observed that I was initiating the turn by dropping my hips in. This was also causing me to not actively steer with my inner ski.To deal with this I was instructed to begin the turn by rolling both ankles, concentrating on feeling the grip and pressuring the tip of the (now) inner ski, then let the knees come down, then lastly the angulation from the pelvis. It's pretty much all one movement but the subtle concentration and feel in how it starts made a big difference.
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You need to be balanced properly in the middle of the ski to start. Then try any or all of these ... "Big toe ... Little Toe" --- feel for the big toe of the outside ski, and the little toe of the inside --- through both you should feel the ski on the snow... To start your turn -- point both skis where you want to go... and/or to start the turn -- point the inside ski where you want to go.
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A lot of the answers here are assuming someone skiing parallel, I was assuming something more like a beginner who is dragging their inside ski. Maybe we need to know more about the level of skiing of the OP.
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ittayd wrote:
So, I think I know the theory and all, but when I turn the part of my brain that controls movement refuses to communicate with theorist part. What happens is that my inner ski gets stuck and I need to lift it to complete the turn.

I'm looking for an exercise that will fix that.
Ignore your inner ski. Learn to balance first on your outside ski. If your inner ski is getting stuck and needs lifting it is a symptom of poor lateral balance. Fix the problem (not balancing well enough on the outside ski) and the inside ski will magically start to behave.
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Wot @rob@rar says.
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I can only speak for myself, but if don't work to keep the unweighted ski changing edges at the same time, and by the same amount as the weighted one....I get a bit of A-Frame creeping in.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 3-03-18 22:10; edited 1 time in total
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Try skiing and turning on one ski at a time...make sure you try with both feet. It will scare the bejasus out of you at the start but once you get the knack everything you do afterwards will be so much easier. I'm sure there is a technical reason (probably related to balance) for this but if you only have one ski on the ground you can't lift it, so you either learn to balance properly or faceplant a lot.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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This sounds similar to my predicament as a beginner (converting from snowboard) who's only done a few hours of snowdome lessons so far. I'm doing linked plough turns with a bit of almost parallel between but I also struggle with my inside ski getting stuck and pushing me straighter when I want it to be turning which makes me to either try to push it round against it's will or lift it to help it round.

For me it felt like the inside ski is catching on its rear inside edge as I turn and I'm not in the right body position for it to transfer onto the correct edge through the turn. With no further lessons planned until our holiday at Easter I've yet to fix this but having since watched a few Youtube videos trying to pick up beginner technique and where I might be going wrong I think my issue is that I'm not rolling my inside knee outwards as I start to turn meaning the inside ski doesn't switch edges and drags rather than turns, as demonstrated at 11m10s of this Youtube vid (Time specific Youtube URLs don't seem to work on this forum?!)

http://youtube.com/v/_yfFGDuJ2g0?t=11m10s
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Locoblade wrote:
For me it felt like the inside ski is catching on its rear inside edge as I turn
That's the classic symptom of not being well balanced on the outside ski early enough in the turn.

Locoblade wrote:
..where I might be going wrong I think my issue is that I'm not rolling my inside knee outwards as I start to turn...
It really doesn't matter what you try to do with your inside ski if you are not well balanced on your outside ski. You will always be trying to suppress a symptom of a bigger unresolved problem if you simply focus on working the inside ski without developing good (lateral) balance on the outside ski.
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It felt as though I was transfering most of my weight to the outside ski to initiate the turn and even with enough weight to lift the inside ski and force it round, i still felt that ski was on the wrong edge stopping it naturally gliding into line hence thinking inside knee/leg positioning that was stopping that from happening rather than just weight distribution.
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Locoblade wrote:
It felt as though I was transfering most of my weight to the outside ski to initiate the turn and even with enough weight to lift the inside ski and force it round, i still felt that ski was on the wrong edge stopping it naturally gliding into line hence thinking inside knee/leg positioning that was stopping that from happening rather than just weight distribution.

It may be worth checking if you are standing square on your skis ie. Not Bow Legged or Knock Knee'd. If you are not, it can be hard to change edges at the same time.
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@Locoblade, when you say you have your weight over the outside ski are you by any chance moving your hip towards the outside of the turn to do that? That will tend to flatten the outside ski (causing it to slip sideways) and over edge the inside ski (causing it to catch).
If you stand, feet a little wider than hip width apart, equally balanced. Now move your hip towards your left until most of your weight is on your left foot. Is that how you feel when skiing? (look at how that will have put your right foot on its inside edge).
Now try the same starting position, and -
without moving your hips - move your head to the left over your left foot (your left shoulder will drop slightly). Your weight will be mostly on your left leg, but your right foot won't be any more on the inside edge that it was at the start. Is that different?
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Old Fartbag wrote:

It may be worth checking if you are standing square on your skis ie. Not Bow Legged or Knock Knee'd. If you are not, it can be hard to change edges at the same time.

Yep could be that, I guess it would give the same effect as incorrect inside knee/leg position. It sounds like it's a common beginner issue from what rob@rar says though so maybe it's just me thinking I'm transferring more weight that I actually am and just need to do more. Smile


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 4-03-18 0:21; edited 1 time in total
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rob@rar wrote:
Locoblade wrote:
For me it felt like the inside ski is catching on its rear inside edge as I turn
That's the classic symptom of not being well balanced on the outside ski early enough in the turn.

Locoblade wrote:
..where I might be going wrong I think my issue is that I'm not rolling my inside knee outwards as I start to turn...
It really doesn't matter what you try to do with your inside ski if you are not well balanced on your outside ski. You will always be trying to suppress a symptom of a bigger unresolved problem if you simply focus on working the inside ski without developing good (lateral) balance on the outside ski.


Sure although if someone is well balanced on their outside ski but in a severe A-Frame the inside ski will get caught up - no?
Without seeing them ski how do we know what's causing the inside ski problem?


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 4-03-18 1:30; edited 1 time in total
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Tubaski wrote:
@Locoblade, when you say you have your weight over the outside ski are you by any chance moving your hip towards the outside of the turn to do that? That will tend to flatten the outside ski (causing it to slip sideways) and over edge the inside ski (causing it to catch).
If you stand, feet a little wider than hip width apart, equally balanced. Now move your hip towards your left until most of your weight is on your left foot. Is that how you feel when skiing? (look at how that will have put your right foot on its inside edge).
Now try the same starting position, and -
without moving your hips - move your head to the left over your left foot (your left shoulder will drop slightly). Your weight will be mostly on your left leg, but your right foot won't be any more on the inside edge that it was at the start. Is that different?


I couldn't honestly say without trying it on skis again as it was a few months ago when MK had a late summer deal on lessons but I'll keep it in mind when I get on the slopes at the end of the month. I have a week of lessons booked in resort so hopefully they'll spot what I'm doing wrong and sort me me out fairly quickly, it's just something I noticed starting to happen as I got towards the end of my lessons linking turns so I guess it's stuck in my head as being a potential problem since when it might just be something I'll naturally shake as I continue learning anyway.
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@Tubaski,
I take it your post is talking about a turn to the right?
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@DB, indeed. Very Happy
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DB wrote:
Sure although if someone is well balanced on their outside ski but in a severe A-Frame the inside ski will get caught up - no?
Without seeing them ski how do we know what's causing the inside ski problem?
I would be astonished if an A frame caused the problem he described. Id say its almost certain that he has not quite developed an effective extension movement at the start of the turn, instead pushing the outside ski sideways to create an overly large snowplough. This means the hips will drop backwards, which is why the tail of the inside ski catches.

Of course it could be something else entirely, and without seeing him ski Im just guessing. But if we are just guessing its probably sensible to start with the obvious rather than the esoteric.
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ittayd, lots of interesting and useful stuff posted, but really the only way to learn a new skill is watch someone doing it correctly and copy them.
So get yourself an instructor (or mate who skis well) and ski behind them - right behind them - for a day or two (will take time to unlearn your present bad habit), and like magic you will ski just like them snowHead
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Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread with my learner issues, hopefully the advice given has helped the OP with their issue as well though.
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@rob@rar,

ittayd wrote:
What happens is that my inner ski gets stuck and I need to lift it to complete the turn.
I'm looking for an exercise that will fix that.


Where did he say he was snowploughing, in the back seat or that it was the tail that was catching?
With the wrong angle on the inside ski, the inside ski could also very well get stuck (track towards the outside ski).
I agree, without a video or seeing him ski it's just guesswork.

@ittayd,
Can you post a video?
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Get a lesson and quick!
I fannyed about with this inside ski lark, just forget about it and enjoy weighting the outside ski and having fun.
oddly it sort of sorts itself out in the end.


http://youtube.com/v/KWqQ4pf2OII

Few good tips here, 3rd one was what I was doing among other things😂
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DB wrote:
@rob@rar,

ittayd wrote:
What happens is that my inner ski gets stuck and I need to lift it to complete the turn.
I'm looking for an exercise that will fix that.


Where did he say he was snowploughing, in the back seat or that it was the tail that was catching?
With the wrong angle on the inside ski, the inside ski could also very well get stuck (track towards the outside ski).
I agree, without a video or seeing him ski it's just guesswork.

My comment was directed at Locoblade who said
Quote:
This sounds similar to my predicament as a beginner (converting from snowboard) who's only done a few hours of snowdome lessons so far. I'm doing linked plough turns with a bit of almost parallel between but I also struggle with my inside ski getting stuck and pushing me straighter when I want it to be turning which makes me to either try to push it round against it's will or lift it to help it round.

For me it felt like the inside ski is catching on its rear inside edge as I turn and I'm not in the right body position for it to transfer onto the correct edge through the turn.

I don't think I've seen a skier who had an A-Frame so pronounced that it caused the inside ski to be stuck on it's Big Toe edge. Not at the same edge angle as the outside ski, for sure, even riding on a flat inside ski, but not stuck on the Big Toe edge in any kind of turn.
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@rob@rar,
Ah I see, thought you were referring to the OP's original comments.
Surprised that the fix for both the OP and Locoblade is purely extending and balancing on the outside ski and not actively tipping, steering maybe even collasping the inside too but hey ho.
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@DB, by coincidence this is what I was working on with two clients all day yesterday, although both are more experienced than Locoblade and (I guess) the OP. We were working on red and black terrain, on snow which got progressively trickier during the day as the snow softened. In more benign conditions both clients balanced more easily on their outside ski at the start of the turn, and from that good platform the rest of their turn shape was smooth, round and grippy. But when things became more difficult they sat back, became static and starting to twist their skis (sometimes in sync, sometimes sequentially), often creating a bit of a wedge and sometimes getting stuck on the tail of their inside ski. This was just as described by Locoblade and I'm guessing what happens with the OP. Under these circumstances if I had tried to get my clients to focus on refining the performance of their inside ski by actively tipping, steering and maybe even collapsing it there is no doubt that things would have got worse not better. So on the basis of keeping things simple, you identify the key movement which is being blocked, that thing which is causing a whole host of symptoms not just getting stuck on the inside ski, and focus the client solely on that to help change their performance. In the case of my clients the key block was ineffective movement patterns at the start of the turn meaning poor lateral balance on the outside ski, and no early platform from which to set up the turn. Without that early platform it really doesn't matter what you try to do specifically with the inside ski, the turn is never going to be set up well. Once you are setting up the turn well on a consistent basis then you can start to refine the performance by making subtle changes to the transition and first phase of the turn, including different ways of managing the inside ski.

Even though I've not seen Locoblade ski I'm pretty sure this is exactly the issue for him (not least as he is a snowboard converter, so less likely to have an acquired A frame), and while I've not seen the OP ski I'd guess the same. I think it's best to focus on the fundamentals, but, you know, hey ho wink
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@rob@rar,
Fairly sure you are right in that Locoblade/the OP are learners i.e. diamonds that need to be cut properly before being polished.
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@DB, ha, I like that analogy.
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You mention leaning back and despite not having any concious fear of skiing or the feeling of moving on snow, I was tending to lean back according to my instructor. I started addressing that towards the end of the last lesson but was probably still a factor.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 5-03-18 9:48; edited 1 time in total
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Thank you all for the tips.

@Jonpim, @Chris_n, @DB : Here's a video of me
http://youtube.com/v/-Tzp9hqu1Xc (not the snowboarder, the skier starting at the top). I would be grateful for any tips, but since I know I probably can't look like a pro from one week of skiing a year, I'm mostly interested in how to get my inner ski "unstuck" as this is the most dangerous part of my skiing for me.
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Hi @ittayd,
Thanks for sharing your video. The inside ski getting trapped is a symptom of other things that are going on, as folks above suggested it might be.
Take a look at this freeze frame from 7 seconds in...

At this point the tip of your inside ski is off the ground, as the back of the outside ski is being pushed out. If the tips or your ski is lifting that's a sign that your balance is too far back. In the last second of the video, after you have passsed the camera you can really see this. You are breaking at the waist and leaning your upper body forwards, but this pushes your bottom backwards and your weight is actually quite far back - even though you might think you are 'leaning forwards'. The rucksack probably isn't helping either. It may be that the posture is, in part at least, a reaction to not feeling in control.
Another contributing factor, I think, is the shape of your turns. You appear to be initiating the turns by extending both legs to then make a quite abrupt turn, with skidding to control your speed, which is followed by a section of straight running diagonally downhill (during which you pick up speed) before turning again.

Ideally you want to aim for more of a C shaped turn linking together into S shaped linked turns rather than a zig-zag. Finishing your turns (pointing across the slope) so that instead of the start of the turn being the fast point at which you need to slow down it becomes the slowest point, as you turn your skis towards the fall line to start the next turn.

On a very easy shallow piste, flex your ankles and knees so that your shins are against the front of your boots. Make sure you are balanced over the centre of your feet and your skeleton is supporting your weight - a 'stacked' posture. From an initial position pointing across the slope make one slow rounded turn, stretching the new outside leg. Keep turning until you are pointing back across the slope and have stopped. Take a critical look back at your tracks and see it it really is a nice round curve not a blunt triangle. Repeat in the opposite direction and keep doing it, stopping after each turn. Once you're happy that you've got the turn shape nailed, don't quite stop after each turn and go directly from one turn to the next making sure you start each turn at the same speed. Don't worry if you need to do the above in a bit of a snowplough until you get used to balancing more forwards and over the outside ski.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 5-03-18 11:09; edited 2 times in total
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