 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
Currently in the process of planning the next trip for next season. We want to try Austria and Italy as we haven't been to either yet. We will do 1 week in each. So I have a few questions that hopefully some much more experienced SnowHeads can answer!
Firstly - We are planning on taking our own vehicle which is a Freelander so has 4 wheel drive. It's due some new tyres soon so I want to double check what type do I need to comply with the law in Austria and Italy. Do I need 4 proper winter/snow tryes? Will "all season" ones suffice? I am right in saying that they need to be marked with "M+S", "M.S." or "M&S? We would like to avoid buying a whole set of winter tyres if possible due to how infrequently they will be used.
I've also read that in some countries the winter tyre rule only applies to domestic cars and not from abroad?
Secondly - We will obviously have chains with us, but this will be our first trip in the 4x4. Am I right in saying that we can either put the chains on the front or rear on a 4x4?
Now onto the skiing!
Can anyone recommend some resorts? We will be going around end of January/very start of February time. Obviously snow reliability is important (although would hope it would be ok by then).
First...Austria - We are 4 skiers. 3 decent intermediates, 1 advanced skier. All mostly on-piste. Like to go out at first lift all day and stop for a lunch/beer then come back about 4-5pm. Ski mostly blues and reds. Not into huge apres/party but enjoy a decent pub/bar. We have no idea about where to aim for here!
Second....Italy - We know we want to hit the Dolomites. Same as above really (different people but same rough abilities and tastes). Where would people recommend we aim for?
We aren't too bothered about making sure the resorts are close to each other. Willing to drive to where ever we will have the best time!
Thanking you in advance!!
Fridge
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For Austria, Kitzbuhel and ski Welt areas are good and extensive then easy drive South through Felbertaurn tunnel to Cortina in 2hrs 30 min where you can go on to Arraba, Corvara or other Dolomite resorts.
I'll let others answer about snow tyres.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The legal requirement for pucka winter tyres (ie with the three-peaked mountain & snowflake symbols) is for domestic vehicles only. For tourists and locals alike it's also a legal requirement to carry chains.
Note that there's also to be other stuff you need to carry as well which may be country specific so remember to check the requirements for each country that you'll travel through. For example: proof of vehcle ownership, insurance doc, hi-viz jacket for every passenger, headlamp dipper stickers, spare lamp set, 2no. breathalysers etc.
Whether you have to fit chains to the front or rear on your Freelander will be detailed in the owners manual as it's make/model dependant.
Don't forget to get a 5th winter tyre for your spare as going to the trouble of getting winter tyres and not having a spare is folly IMO.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 27-05-18 20:09; edited 3 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I used to have a freelander auto. You should be okay in "snow" mode with most tyres + Chains.
M+S tyres are not winter. They are chunky tyres. I used to ditch my company freelander and use my Honda Accord with proper winters (2WD+Winters vs 4WD and ones that look as if they will work in the snow).
PS make sure they are the same brand. The size may be different in different brands and "May' upset the viscous diff. According to folk on piston heads. I always have the same tyres on each corner so cannot comment on this accuracy. But since you need four get four the same.
Skiing now:
Blues and reds well base in Corvara or similar on Sella Ronda and head out to Alta Badia for some easy cruising fun.
Or why not go to Austria then head down to Arabba and Join the Snowheads Birthday Bash. Sat to Sat 2nd to 9th Feb 2019 (I'm already booked for flights). 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Get winter tyres. If the weather does get heavy the difference in having winter tyres plus 4x4 means you probably will never need to go through the pain that is getting out in crappy weather by the side of a steep busy road and fitting chains, but you need chains either way. Also note 4x4 is great for getting up, but on a steep descent winter tyres make everything much less stressful and probably more safe.
For resort, I'd look at the sella ronda and pretty much pick a resort close to it. Not such a drama since you have the car, what dates are you looking at? The pre-birthday bash in alleghe is very good quality hotel for pretty cheap, or birthday bash at arraba is a good location where you won't need the car. Since you have the car, I'd explore a few different resorts included in lift pass. We've had some great days in San pellegrino, as well as other small resorts nearby.
No guesses on Austria, but so far my experience of St anton and mayrhofen was that they were expensive and everybody told me afterwards they weren't really Austria (confused me too) so worth looking at other options that the same people I'm sure will be along to recommend.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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We would like to avoid buying a whole set of winter tyres if possible due to how infrequently they will be used.
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They are better in the UK in winter, too - making a significant difference to safety once temperature is under 7 degrees. You do have to pay to change them (unless you have a spare set of wheels) but I always find that after a lot of winter driving the tracking needs adjusting anyway.
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| ......We would like to avoid buying a whole set of winter tyres if possible due to how infrequently they will be used.... |
Having winters on all four corners is a must in snow for safety reasons.
And, as pam w says, they're a lot better in the UK in the winter when it's colder than 7C, are then equivalent to reglar tyres to circa 15C and then regulars are better when warmer than that. Providing you're planning on keeping your Freelander for a while (ie enough mileage to use two sets of tyres) it's cost effective to have two sets of tyres and swap them early Spring and late Autumn so running them for 6 months each. A set of secondhand rims are are cheap enough and hold nigh on all of their value. And use the 'winter' spare as your all year round spare.
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In Germany (I believe the rules are the same in Austria and Italy) all cars are required to have proper winter tyres if the road conditions require them. This basically means you need winter tyres full stop no exceptions. As far as I know there is no general requirement for snow chains, I know nobody who has them. There might be access roads to some resorts where they might be required in certain snow conditions but you are unlikely to run into this. Winter tyres on a 4x4 will cope with practically any road conditions unless you are planning on driving on uncleared tracks.
As far as resorts go Kitzbühel / SkiWelt is one good option (stay in either Brixen or Kirchberg for easy access to both areas), if you have a car get the AllStar pass which covers a huge number of resorts such as Fieberbrunn (for Saalbach Hinterglemm) within easy driving distance. Personally I would go for the Arlberg area, arguably the best skiing in Austria for those of decent intermediate standard to total experts. Easy to get to the Brenner via Innsbruck for access to the Dolomites. The SkiAmade area near Salzburg also has a lot of skiing on one pass, no obvious place to stay maybe Wagrain. Other options worth looking at would be Ischgl, Serfaus / Fiss and the Zillertal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is what the AA says.
For Austria
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| (1) – All vehicles on snow-covered roads must have winter tyres (or all-season tyres marked M+S/mud and snow) between 1 November and 15 April, and they must use them if roads have a covering of snow, slush or ice outside these dates. Tyres must have at least 4mm of tread. |
For Germany
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| (4) – All passenger cars and motorbikes including vehicles from foreign countries must be fitted with winter tyres or all season tyres on all axles when conditions are ‘wintry’. Winter tyres (or 'all season' tyres) should be marked M+S or have the snowflake symbol on the side wall. |
https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/driving-in-europe/snow-chains-winter-tyres
This is what the Austrian law says -
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Zusammenfassung der Winterreifen-Pflicht für Kraftfahrzeuge in Österreich
Kraftfahrzeuge bis 3,5 t höchstzulässiges Gesamtgewicht (gilt zur Gänze seit 1.1.2008):
Der Lenker darf ein Kraftfahrzeug der Klassen M1 (Personen-/Kombinationskraftwagen) und N1 (Lastkraftwagen bis 3,5 t) vom 1. November bis 15. April bei winterlichen Fahrbahnverhältnissen wie insbesondere Schneefahrbahn, Schneematsch oder Eis, dieses Fahrzeug nur in Betrieb nehmen, wenn an allen Rädern Winterreifen oder, wenn die Fahrbahn mit einer zusammenhängenden oder nicht nennenswert unterbrochenen Schnee- oder Eisschicht bedeckt ist, Schneeketten auf mindestens zwei Antriebsrädern angebracht sind.
Der Lenker darf Schneeketten nur dann verwenden, wenn dies erforderlich ist, und nur, wenn sie so befestigt sind, dass sie die Oberfläche der Fahrbahn nicht beschädigen können. |
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Welche Reifen gelten als Winterreifen?
Reifen gelten für den Gesetzgeber bzw. die Exekutive nur dann als Winterausrüstung, wenn in der Seitenwand eine Gravur mit der Aufschrift "M+S" (gleichwertige, alternative Bezeichnungen sind: "MS", "M.S.", "M/S", "M&S" oder "M-S") vorhanden ist UND die Profiltiefe über die gesamte Reifenbreite mehr als 4 mm (bei Diagonalreifen 5 mm) beträgt. Das gilt auch für Ganzjahresreifen und Spikereifen.
Eine Kennzeichnung von Winterreifen ausschließlich mit einem Schneeflocken- bzw. Schneekristall-Symbol ist in Österreich NICHT als Winterreifen-Kennzeichnung anerkannt.http://www.winterreifen-pflicht.at/winterreifenpflicht_pkw.html |
http://www.winterreifen-pflicht.at/winterreifenpflicht_pkw.htm
It looks like the only slight difference is that Germany recognises the snowflake symbol whereas Austria only accepts M&S. Not sure what this difference means in real life as every tyre I have seen that has a snowflake symbol also has M&S markings. The above also means all seasons would meet the legal requirements.
In real terms snow isn't the problem, it's ice (especially wet ice). This is where winters perform significantly better than all-seasons (softer compound and sipes).
If you do very low mileage running two sets of wheels/tyres will cost you more as the tyres start to harden up after 5 to 6 years so you end up replacing tyres with still a lot of tread on them. This is however the safest option.
If you decide on all seasons rather than winters be aware that in icy conditions the cars around you will be able to stop sooner and go round corners faster, especially when descending steeper roads.
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I think I read here a few snowheads simply kept their winter tyres on year round.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Re tyres, good all season tyres marked with the mountain snowflake symbol are fine, we use ours year round with no problems and have done the last two seasons in the Alps, even with 2wd we have not needed chains. We use Kleber Quadraxers, but Michelin Cross Climate are easier to source.
Re skiing, SkiWelt, or SkiAmade would be good for Austria. For Italy, Dolomites, Corvara, San Cassiano, La Villa, Santa Christina.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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On my old Subaru Forester I ran Nokian tyres (they market them as all season but they are just proper winter tyres that also perform ok in summer) all year round. I'd get above 20K miles on them, my local garage only charged £20 for changing them so when they dropped below 4mm I'd keep them for UK summer use. I've done 3 seasons in Austria and never had chains, and also never had a problem going up roads that most other cars could not attempt without chains or 4 wheel drive.
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Winter tyres on a 4x4 will cope with practically any road conditions unless you are planning on driving on uncleared tracks.
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Hmm. I'd not rely on that in the Dolomites if there's lots of snow. And I've seen 4WD vehicles in ditches in France, many a time and oft. In bad weather snow can build up rapidly in between passes of the snow ploughs. And it's not uncommon to have to venture onto the (snowier) edge of the road to get past vehicles stuck.
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You know it makes sense.
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| abc wrote: |
| I think I read here a few snowheads simply kept their winter tyres on year round. |
Have done that, but this year have put on summers. Makes a noticeable difference in fuel consumption. So roughly 4.9L/100km on summers and roughly 5.9L/100km on winters. That's a BMW 218d xDrive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Fridge03, We drove to the Dolomites for half-term in 2014. We travelled south of Stuttgart (sp?) then down into Austria. Fern Pass and on to Innsbruck. From there over the Brenner Pass (12 euros) into the Dolomites. More resorts than you can shake a stick at.
Planetski recently did a feature on the Innsbruck area. Might be worth a look. In Italy..... Cortina, Corvara. Arraba, Madonna Di Campiglio Etc,Etc.
Sounds like you have a great Road Trip in the making. Good Luck. 
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