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Your Favourite Touring Binding?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Compared to those who spend their time hucking off cliffs I'm more of a punter (SCGB lowish purple, Snoworks 5) happy with binding release set at 6 (I'm 67 kg plus clothes and yes sometimes an ABS) and pottering along on skins at around 300m up per hour. Three weeks skiing per year (in a good year) - no shame but great inconvenience in having to work for a living.

At this level (and there are a lot of us) but still improving I don't see the point of beast, shifts, kingpins, tectons etc. I find my Dynafit Radical 2s (on R.98mm skis) excellent at everything, all off-piste, on-piste and of course touring or hiking for turns, I suspect the current version of Vipecs are just the same. ( I may not have found this with the earlier versions). I think the reason some people go for the heavier hybrid type bindings may be a worry of safety hanging over from the older generation of pin bindings without toe rotation/elasticity etc. Rather than using my pin bindings on piste to flaunt my gnarlyness it's much more the practicality of having one set of skis and bindings for everything that release when they're supposed to and not when they're not.

I've previously used Fritschi Eagle frame bindings and have Marker F10s on my fat skis (which are rarely used these days) but don't notice any shortcomings with the pin bindings, in fact they feel even more solid and maybe be up to some gentle cliff hucking.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

And one final comment on the ski touring tribes, you will often find that the median age of those doing hut to huts is circa 50 maybe more - and the guides are often nearing that age or over too, but in the past they've done the gnar.


And median age of Snowheads Gnar club is 73 🤣

Seriously, lots of top experience on here and different opinions. Live and let live. And you never stop learning if you listen! Even @Weathercam and his Tectons 🤣

dulcamara wrote:
Quote:

Love the old school 🦕 looking down on progress 😉 Stick to your meadow hopping and skinning up the sides of pistes on powder days



I'm maybe going to open a can of worms here but I'll ask the question to the forum that is very heavy, safety orientated.

"Why do you want a more elastic release?"


EDIT: I am asking because market trend in the lighter bindings is less elasticity


Iím rarely doing long tours so shaving weight not a priority.

Iím after something primarily for the down so needs to be robust enough and not too fiddly to get on in sketchy terrain, ideally on the light side and touring ability a bonus. Currently have Marker Griffonís on the fat skis and Dynafits on the touring skis. Thinking of changing up the touring skis and the Shift, at what looks like a pretty decent weight looks like an interesting option - otherwise would have probably gone with Kingpins from the positive feedback iíve heard from mates whoíve migrated to them from Dynafits.

From a commercial perspective I suspect this is also a big and growing ďaspirationalĒ market for people who perhaps donít really need a binding like this but want one anyway. If I was Dynafit Iím not sure Iíd be leaving that market to the Markers and Salomonís of this world.
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Hmm you are right @BobinCH, just like the freeride boots i believe the "might want to in the future" market is growing massively, some things are changing in a fairly big way, but Dynafit's motto is still "Speed Up"..... little clue maybe..

However, im not a sluggish skier, and I have pushed the Rad 2 as hard as I can (and the rotation will take even more) with no issues. Kingpin name is getting dragged through the dirt a little on the TGR site these days.

Finally, Hoji trusts Dynafit bindings when he stomps backflips off 30m cliffs and blasts massive pillow lines so im not too worried. Maybe we are over estimating our needs again, like i would bet 90% of the people did when they bought the DIN 16 Duke over the 13 baron and 16 Beast over the 14.
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@dulcamara, iím sure you are right. My old FT 12ís have let me down which clouds my view but with all that experience and R&D I donít doubt Dynafit are probably the safest bet in tech when looking objectively. But Iím a confirmed sucker for the next shiny thing in skiing and seem to have no qualms throwing my money at it while still having an eye for the 2 for 1 offers in Aldi 🤣
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dulcamara wrote:


"Why do you want a more elastic release?"




Personally I don't in touring kit, but in an alpine binding....

My perception is that I can get away with a lower DIN setting in a more elastic binding (because the extra travel allows a more elastic bindings to not pre-release in a situation where a less elastic binding would). I prefer to ski at the lowest DIN setting that will avoid a pre-release, so that seems to be an advantage of using an elastic binding. That's how it feels intuitively, I don't know if that is actually the case.
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@dulcamara, the reason i went for the beast 16 over 14 was purely psychological- the toe just looks more solid. It almost certainly isn't but these things aren't always rational!
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Quote:

I prefer to ski at the lowest DIN setting that will avoid a pre-release


Great philosophy! I wish more people did the same, instead of over tightening then assuming that some elasticity will save knee ligaments somehow.
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@dulcamara,


Simple answer (well It was when I started, before editing a few times! wink)
I might like to go up occasionally but I really like the way bindings like Look Pivots ski on the way down (to the point I never have to think about them, no matter what I am skiing). I also like the fact I can wind down the DIN and still know I'm going to keep my skis on when I need them - elasticity is a good thing in an alpine binding, so why wouldn't I want that in a touring binding?

I also don't go far, and since half the point of hiking up for me is to get some exercise, probably a bit of extra weight is a good thing. wink

Mostly I don't huck a lot or need mega retention in no-fall zones anymore as I'm getting a bit past that, except when I make the mistake of following my crazy son!, but I do have Marker Dukes because at the time I got them I was also skiing on Jesters and they worked pretty well and liked the idea of a strong binding on a frame (though I now also have Griffons and they work well too and I've never broken a pair), so you and weathercam can carry on looking down on me if that makes you feel better about your gear choices - Hats off the the rad skiers on the lightest gear, but that choice doesn't work for me...
I'm not particularly bothered by the weight of Dukes when hiking, but the pivot point, getting ice under the frame, and slightly awkward risers (I have the mk1 version), and general faff, makes me want to change them for Shifts.
I have skied hard on bindings without good retention/elasticity and that has caused me some big crashes, so I'm not taking chances there.

I also don't want to be worrying about whether my bindings are going to cause my knees to explode. Again, possibly more of a perception than fact based decision, but I seriously considered Tectons, but not really Kingpins or Beasts.

Salomon got it right. Whether a marketing gimmick or not, they are right as I have 2 pairs of shifts on order, and no pairs of Dynafits.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 2-05-18 4:45; edited 1 time in total
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Weathercam wrote:


To go on these I've just bought some Marker F10 FRAME bindings Laughing for Ä145 logic strategy being these will be my de facto off piste / La Grave skis using alpine boots* as opposed to touring boots as at my age I honestly find apart from uber light powder my legs do not get as tired skiing with alpine boots - however if needs must as they have a walk mode I then have the option to climb as well should I need to, such as going back up to maybe help someone who has a problem etc



Strange 🤔 why would you suffer the compromise of a touring binding to ski lift served off piste with Alpine boots? Bootpack or sidestep up if you need to help someone? Sounds like the sort of thing a 1 week a season Brit would do 😉
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@stuarth, out of interest have you got ur shifts on order with comor on the bulk buy ??
I also fully agree with your comments above , and too that end next season I will be skiing with tectons on my full touring set up with lighter skis and boots
And the shift on my lift served and every day skis
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@Dabber, nope, with North Shore Ski and Board (on their "shift list")
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@stuarth, Not looking down on you, not judging anyone, I'm just trying to gauge market perception. My question was for example, not why the Dukes, but why the Dukes instead of the Barons? They went up to 13 and I'm guessing that was enough as most bindings only go up to that these days.

Elasticity is about energy absorption, but it does not change release forces. It would be wrong to assume that people who use lightweight gear are "hardcore", many are older and just out for a hike in the snow, they value safety very highly as well and the use of a fixed toe comes from many years building up trust in a product. It has been a long road and it's interesting to see the rapid migration to pin bindings now that everyone can build them and the counter marketing machine has been wound down.

Also, some studies suggest that the fact that knee injuries occur most frequently when the knee is bent up to 90 degrees means that rear release such as that in Pin bindings is safer than front release bindings like an Alpine binding. But it's an inexact science.
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@dulcamara, youíll like his answer to my question 😉
https://instagram.com/p/BiPZPIaFlqC/
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Haha Love it. Going to find some awesome vids of hoji going big on a pair of rad 2s or beast 14s.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@dulcamara, remember seeing some of the La Grave rippers doing the Pan de Rideau in about 3 turns on TLT Speeds (toes locked). Also one of them attempting to start an Internet campaign after he broke a toe piece after a season of that sort of treatment Laughing

Edit: davidof has set me straight on the second bit below


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 2-05-18 17:15; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Booo hooo yet another grey flat light day no good to man nor beast.

Out of interest how many of your OH's tour with you?

It was my OH that instigated going for the Tectons, sometimes she's more up to speed on new gear than me (she's also pretty quick going up the hill though does not do huts).

She's also gets very frustrated at how blokes always seem to choose the gear for their OH's with the women always being given a fait accompli - she did write a good piece four years ago now on "Fat Waists" for women in her search for a women's light weight fat ski.

And in the ensuing seasons her search carried on with a purchase of uber light Santa Ana 100s with Marker Tours and then for this past season (she sold the 100's) buying Nordica Santa Ana 110s and mounted the Tectons and that is a real sweet setup and she's used those most of the season (85%) from skinning up the slopes of Mount Yoti in Japan to deep powder in the Queyras.

Majority of the time she's riding fatter skis than me though her BobinCH evangelism does fall short as a few women in the valley have gone on to buy wider skis but have ended up with sub 100s.

Prior to the Tectons on her Scott Cruisairs she too had 2nd gen Vipecs and sometimes I'd be waiting for a fair few minutes whilst she got into them, a mate in the end ditched his ST's for his wife and went KingPins because of the faff factor (she had to lock the binding to stop it twisting so she could get her heel in) of his wife getting in her STs!

With the OH on her Tectons I've probably amassed another days skiing not having to wait so long for her to get in her bindings Toofy Grin

Maybe that's also the appeal of the Shifts Laughing

This weather is the pits made worse by a gang of mates, some of who I first went to LG with back in 97 are off to Lyngen this weekend and I declined back in Jan saying that as I'd been up there five times and that here we'd be touring routes that we've not been able to do with all the crazy amounts of snow has all sort of backfired Crying or Very sad

And when one skis with those dear to you, and or mates, I'm often a good 150m+ in front going first and God forbid something should happen (or a lost ski) then I personally don't want to loose time trying to boot pack / side step in knee deep powder!

I sort of learnt picked that up from when skiing with a guide in the resort that can't be named when it was so stupidly deep and a mate found himself buried and just could not get out and was panicking a bit as more snow kept falling down on him.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 2-05-18 9:06; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So... Tectons v Rad2s ?

I've been really happy with my Rad2s except for the front rear height difference. Wondering if Tectons may be an alternative for next season?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Weathercam, if youíre usually 150m ahead youíd be skiing down! Sure you arenít usually behind 🤣

Your OH sounds great! Mineís very happy with her Soul 7 / F10 combo for off piste although just got the Dalbello Lupo 130 freeride boots which opens up tech options next time.

A female friend out here just tried the DPS A Yvetteís (womenís version of the DPS Wailers) and loved them. They are so easy everywhere. Not met any (non hard charging) off piste oriented skiers who donít love these. Not cheap but worth every penny.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2280336/dps-just-made-perfect-womens-powder-ski

Iím currently thinking DPS Wailer Alchemists plus Shifts for next touring rig. Where are these pre-order options?
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Quote:

Hoji trusts Dynafit bindings when he stomps backflips off 30m cliffs


That is correct, if beasts or shifts are good for them they are good enough for me!
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Arno wrote:
@dulcamara, remember seeing some of the La Grave rippers doing the Pan de Rideau in about 3 turns on TLT Speeds (toes locked). Also one of them attempting to start an Internet campaign after he broke a toe piece after a season of that sort of treatment Laughing


You mis-remember and before this tale gains any legs the skier was Colin Samuels. The bindings were the Dynafit FT12 (one of the marketing led bindings Basti Haag had complained about (see above)). The FT was sold as a "free tour" binding. The marketing showed Benedikt Boehm hucking cliffs in the Himalayas. However the binding, as well as having a smaller toe mounting plate compared to the TLT Speed, appeared to have a design fault on the toe piece that created additional leverage forces that actually made it weaker and less suitable to "skiing hard on the descent" than the lightweight "touring" TLT Speed binding. The broken binding had 30 days skiing on it.

Dyanfit quickly rolled back on the marketing insisting it was a "ski touring binding". They rightly pointed out that locking the toe pieces was a bad idea, as you point out. The FT12 was redesigned for the following year.

This was the marketing for the FT12

full speed on the way up, ski hard on the descent


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 2-05-18 9:42; edited 4 times in total
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@kedsky, Hoji weighs about 50kg and moves like a cat. Not sure how his use of bindings is relevant for someone like me who weighs 90kg+ and moves like an octopus falling out of a tree NehNeh
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BobinCH wrote:
@Weathercam, if youíre usually 150m ahead youíd be skiing down! Sure you arenít usually behind 🤣
Iím currently thinking DPS Wailer Alchemists plus Shifts for next touring rig. Where are these pre-order options?


i got mine via comer sports ca as there was quite a few pre order deals on tgr via local us and ca shops ,but they all seem to be full or closed down by salomon now , so reckon jon's ur best chance in uk , or see if any group buys going on in ch or fr ??


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 2-05-18 11:00; edited 1 time in total
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Just looking through my Dynafit 30 Years book and a couple of amusing cartoons in it, this but being one of them

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Dabber wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
@Weathercam, if youíre usually 150m ahead youíd be skiing down! Sure you arenít usually behind 🤣
Iím currently thinking DPS Wailer Alchemists plus Shifts for next touring rig. Where are these pre-order options?


i got mine via comer sports ca as there was quite a few pre order deals on tgr via local us and ca shops ,but they all seem to be full or closed down by salomon now , so reckon jon's ur best chance in uk , or see if any group buys going on in ch or fr ??


I'm currently taking orders for Shifts against my stock order which is due in September. If anyone wants to reserve a set (or multiple sets) then just email/pm me.
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Quote:

Dynafit 30 Years book and a couple of amusing cartoons in it, this but being one of them


I have that on my desk too. love it!
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spyderjon wrote:
Dabber wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
@Weathercam, if youíre usually 150m ahead youíd be skiing down! Sure you arenít usually behind 🤣
Iím currently thinking DPS Wailer Alchemists plus Shifts for next touring rig. Where are these pre-order options?


i got mine via comer sports ca as there was quite a few pre order deals on tgr via local us and ca shops ,but they all seem to be full or closed down by salomon now , so reckon jon's ur best chance in uk , or see if any group buys going on in ch or fr ??


I'm currently taking orders for Shifts against my stock order which is due in September. If anyone wants to reserve a set (or multiple sets) then just email/pm me.


Maybe you can put that in its own thread, give the comments here I'm sure there will be wider interest.
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@davidof, I stand corrected Embarassed
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Quote:

However the binding, as well as having a smaller toe mounting plate compared to the TLT Speed, appeared to have a design fault on the toe piece that created additional leverage forces that actually made it weaker and less suitable to "skiing hard on the descent" than the lightweight "touring" TLT Speed binding.


oooohhh good info! will research!

Quote:

The broken binding had 30 days skiing on it.


Not arguing the validity of the post, great knowledge, but not sooo many long fatigue failures outside of badly designed springs. The statement that it could have been used wrong and then failed quickly is not excluded by this statement. But as I said, I'll ask the boss what happened.
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You know it makes sense.
Low cycle (that is, high strain range with significant plasticity) fatigue is very possible even with a relatively modest increase in load - especially if youíre designing to fine margins for a lightweight binding. Doubling the stress range can reduce the fatigue endurance by a factor of 8 quite happily, if not more, for example. I presume thatís what you mean by Ďlongí fatigue failures?
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Arno wrote:
@davidof, I stand corrected Embarassed


I only mentioned it because the original TLT Speed is a very good, solid binding with years of service and abuse. Yes the plastic crampon plates were shit as was the hard plastic in the toe lever but bar a couple of tweaks the Speed was close to the perfect touring binding at a very good price point.

Then they launched the TriStep - a huge abortion of a ski binding. Dynafit basically screwed over their customers, especially in the US, with a semi functioning ski binding which they refused to stand by. It morphed into the Comfort with the exploding risers but that was a minor issue.

With the FT Dynafit wanted to ride on the freetouring wave but was an ill conceived POS, Samuels was right to call them out. Aimed "free touring" or maybe FT stood for something else? "Fecking Trash" maybe (Weathercam will like that) ? It had a rinky dinky bit of faux carbon plastic linking heel to toe which served absolutely no purpose other than adding weight. A smaller toe mounting area and the "torsion plate" which seems only to over torque the toe mounts. In Dynafit's favour, they probably hadn't conceived of anyone touring on wide skis - although I think their own Mustagh Ata was close to 100mm back then. Samuals was effectively doing lift served off piste in LG - which probably isn't an ideal use case for pin bindings and is one reason I don't do it.



Then we were served up the Radical Turn with the exploding heel pieces, the number of people who were left marooned in the middle of nowhere must still be cursing Dynafit to this day.

Things seems to have stabilized now. The Superlight 2.0, for example, is a return to what Dynafit does best.

Still I blame the customers. The couldn't accept that the Speed was and is an excellent and safe touring binding and wanted all kinds of complications to something that just worked.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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@Sharkymark, hehe actually I meant high cycle but I was running late for the train. Spotted it but thought I could get a way with it.

Usually we don't see many low strain high cycle failures in the solid parts of the bindings due to the loading patterns while skiing being more dominated by sudden impulses and hiking not getting close enough to the required frequencies and cycle counts. The exception being in the springs.

If that makes more sense.
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@davidof, I have Speed Radicals that keep rotating into ski mode when skinning. Most of the time, this has just been annoying, as it occurs on the inside ski and requires stepping out of the ski and then rotating the heel-piece back into walk-mode. However, on a steep, icy slope, this could be way more than inconvenient. From looking at Lou Dawsonís site, Iím not the only person to have encountered this problem that should have been antipated by Dynafit. I never had this problem with the old Vertical TLTs, although, I prefer the lower delta of the Speed Radical when skiing. Iíve got a diy fix in mind but wish I didnít have to bother.
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Kelskii wrote:
@davidof, I have Speed Radicals that keep rotating into ski mode when skinning. Most of the time, this has just been annoying, as it occurs on the inside ski and requires stepping out of the ski and then rotating the heel-piece back into walk-mode. However, on a steep, icy slope, this could be way more than inconvenient. From looking at Lou Dawsonís site, Iím not the only person to have encountered this problem that should have been antipated by Dynafit. I never had this problem with the old Vertical TLTs, although, I prefer the lower delta of the Speed Radical when skiing. Iíve got a diy fix in mind but wish I didnít have to bother.


Just a thought, have you double checked the spacing between the heel piece and your boot?

Don't bother stepping out of the ski, just give the heel a little flick with a horizontal pole and it will flip back into walk mode.
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clarky999 wrote:
The Shift - and the Beast - are not tech binding killers....
What the Shift will do (if it works) and what the Beast failed to do (IMO!) is kill the frame touring binding.


+1

I don't have the time to tour much and the tours i have done have been much more enjoyable with pin bindings on the way up. In hind site the Dukes I had were awful for the up. The Beasts ski nicely on the down and I am happy with the weight penalty but they are overcomplicated and failed. (causing me a light knee injury)

A pair of kingpins or the new Sally ones could fit the bill in a year or two
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davidof wrote:
Kelskii wrote:
@davidof, I have Speed Radicals that keep rotating into ski mode when skinning. Most of the time, this has just been annoying, as it occurs on the inside ski and requires stepping out of the ski and then rotating the heel-piece back into walk-mode. However, on a steep, icy slope, this could be way more than inconvenient. From looking at Lou Dawsonís site, Iím not the only person to have encountered this problem that should have been antipated by Dynafit. I never had this problem with the old Vertical TLTs, although, I prefer the lower delta of the Speed Radical when skiing. Iíve got a diy fix in mind but wish I didnít have to bother.


Just a thought, have you double checked the spacing between the heel piece and your boot?

Don't bother stepping out of the ski, just give the heel a little flick with a horizontal pole and it will flip back into walk mode.


The heel spacing is fine. You have to step out of the ski as you only realise thereís a problem when your heel has dropped down and clicked into ski mode.
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@spyderjon, thanks. Iím in for a pair. PM sent. Fingers crossed they donít fall apart after a couple of tours and another couple of busted ACLís 🤣
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Kelskii wrote:
@davidof, I have Speed Radicals that keep rotating into ski mode when skinning. Most of the time, this has just been annoying, as it occurs on the inside ski and requires stepping out of the ski and then rotating the heel-piece back into walk-mode. However, on a steep, icy slope, this could be way more than inconvenient. From looking at Lou Dawsonís site, Iím not the only person to have encountered this problem that should have been antipated by Dynafit. I never had this problem with the old Vertical TLTs, although, I prefer the lower delta of the Speed Radical when skiing. Iíve got a diy fix in mind but wish I didnít have to bother.

Kelskii, Dynafit are aware of the problem and rectified it a couple of years ago with their anti-rotation heel bases which are now fitted to their Speed Radicals. The parts are available for retro-fitting to earlier Speed Radical heels and I can supply them to you for just £13.50 inc UK p&p. Lead time is 2/3 weeks.
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BobinCH wrote:
@spyderjon, thanks. Iím in for a pair. PM sent. Fingers crossed they donít fall apart after a couple of tours and another couple of busted ACLís 🤣



What you going to put them on ? I a very tempted with a DPS 112 Alchemist, Head Kore 99 or the new Mantra V Werks. Cassiar 95 in Alchemist as well maybe?

PS hope that knee get better soon. Seems like there have been an anecdotally higher number of "free ride" ACL injuries towards the end of this season from experienced skiers. I got away with only a Grade 3 calf tear on 1st April.
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mishmash wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
@spyderjon, thanks. Iím in for a pair. PM sent. Fingers crossed they donít fall apart after a couple of tours and another couple of busted ACLís 🤣



What you going to put them on ? I a very tempted with a DPS 112 Alchemist, Head Kore 99 or the new Mantra V Werks. Cassiar 95 in Alchemist as well maybe?

PS hope that knee get better soon. Seems like there have been an anecdotally higher number of "free ride" ACL injuries towards the end of this season from experienced skiers. I got away with only a Grade 3 calf tear on 1st April.


Probably DPS Alchemist 112 although open to other (cheaper) ideas if there is something similar out there
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
spyderjon wrote:
Kelskii wrote:
@davidof, I have Speed Radicals that keep rotating into ski mode when skinning. Most of the time, this has just been annoying, as it occurs on the inside ski and requires stepping out of the ski and then rotating the heel-piece back into walk-mode. However, on a steep, icy slope, this could be way more than inconvenient. From looking at Lou Dawsonís site, Iím not the only person to have encountered this problem that should have been antipated by Dynafit. I never had this problem with the old Vertical TLTs, although, I prefer the lower delta of the Speed Radical when skiing. Iíve got a diy fix in mind but wish I didnít have to bother.

Kelskii, Dynafit are aware of the problem and rectified it a couple of years ago with their anti-rotation heel bases which are now fitted to their Speed Radicals. The parts are available for retro-fitting to earlier Speed Radical heels and I can supply them to you for just £13.50 inc UK p&p. Lead time is 2/3 weeks.


Hi Jon, are these the bits described here: https://www.wildsnow.com/13852/anti-twist-dynafit-speed-radical/

I reckon Dynafit should be sending these out for free.
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