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Ibuprofen pre loading?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Whatís the concensus (homespun or qualified) on the benefits and/or harm of taking ibuprofen in days or weeks leading up to a ski holiday to stave off pain on aging knees that are otherwise fine for more leisurely activities?
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Only homespun here. I would not take the stuff ahead of time, because I don't think it works that way. I do take it prophetically for the first couple of days of a season - it just means I don't get DOMS, which I used to get all the time when I was as young as I still think I am. The risks appear minimal.
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As a Non-Steroidal Anti Inflammatory, and painkiller, Ibuprofen has two distinct actions on the body.

The painkilling aspects start pretty shortly after you take it.

The anti-inflammatory action only works if you already have Ibuprofen in your system since it works by blocking the release of prostaglandins - and clearly it won't block anything if it's not already there. So, yes, I would suggest taking it about a week or so before you go and maintaining whilst you are there. It should reduce the swelling and pain in your knees by actually blocking the inflammation rather than simply numbing the pain. Would also be a good idea to ice your knees daily too - for two periods of 5-10 minutes about 30 minutes apart.

I'm also a volleyball player and I usually take around 600mg before a match - and have found that this reduces the pain and swelling in the knees very effectively.

However, there is now some recent research suggesting that one should be careful in taking too much. So, be careful with it and, ideally, speak with sports doctor.

I am not a doctor !
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On the rocks wrote:
Whatís the concensus (homespun or qualified) on the benefits and/or harm of taking ibuprofen in days or weeks leading up to a ski holiday to stave off pain on aging knees that are otherwise fine for more leisurely activities?


That would be 600-1000mg of ibuprofen per day which is bit under the 2400mg that can be medically prescribed. But it has a number of common side effects like gastritis, or inflammation of the lining of the stomach. Long term use can result in kidney damage as well.

So no, bad idea. See a doctor or call 111
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get a LFT
Ioubufren can ruin your liver.
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Side effects of ibuprofen: gastritis, peptic ulcers, risk of heart and kidney disease.
Side effects of skiing: aching muscles and joints.
I'd say the risk/benefit balance is fairly obvious.
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Mr.Egg wrote:
get a LFT
Ioubufren can ruin your liver.


not really, unless you're combining them with a lot of alcohol. You're most likely thinking of kidneys.
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Chamcham wrote:

Side effects of skiing: aching muscles and joints.


remarkably similar to the side effects of advancing years and insufficient physical condition Very Happy
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Why see a doctor? Waste of an appointment just to ask about ibuprofen. See a pharmacist if you need advice. 111 probably will just direct you there anyway.

I'm in agreement with Chamcham on the risk/benefit balance. Take it occasionally during your ski trip if you really need to, but preloading is at best pointless and at worst a risk to your health.
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ise wrote:
Chamcham wrote:

Side effects of skiing: aching muscles and joints.


remarkably similar to the side effects of advancing years and insufficient physical condition Very Happy

So that's why I feel good skiing, I forget I am old by putting all those aches down to skiing........
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Blackblade wrote:
As a Non-Steroidal Anti Inflammatory, and painkiller, Ibuprofen has two distinct actions on the body.

The painkilling aspects start pretty shortly after you take it.

The anti-inflammatory action only works if you already have Ibuprofen in your system since it works by blocking the release of prostaglandins - and clearly it won't block anything if it's not already there. So, yes, I would suggest taking it about a week or so before you go and maintaining whilst you are there. It should reduce the swelling and pain in your knees by actually blocking the inflammation rather than simply numbing the pain. Would also be a good idea to ice your knees daily too - for two periods of 5-10 minutes about 30 minutes apart.

I'm also a volleyball player and I usually take around 600mg before a match - and have found that this reduces the pain and swelling in the knees very effectively.

However, there is now some recent research suggesting that one should be careful in taking too much. So, be careful with it and, ideally, speak with sports doctor.

I am not a doctor !

The pain killing action and antiinflammatory action aren't really distinct but related as they are both mediated by inhibiting prostaglandin synthesis(Not release). However they are synthesised as needed so taking them for a week before hand is not useful. Taking them an hour or so before hand is.
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ise wrote:
Mr.Egg wrote:
get a LFT
Ioubufren can ruin your liver.


not really, unless you're combining them with a lot of alcohol. You're most likely thinking of kidneys.


if your popping them like candy 4 hours on the dot for weeks then it can do damage. It can raise your ALT levels.
Not saying it will. im saying it can.
So if taking them long term, get an LFT beforehand, so you know your levels.

Most Doctors will be happy to send you for one. Especially if you have not had one before or for a while.
You should really have one before starting any kind of long term medication as they all affect different people in different ways.
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I have Ibuprofen prescribed but the Drís emphasise the need to take Omniprazle (sp) each day to protect the stomach lining from being damaged by the Ibuprofen
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ibuprofen is basically very safe for the liver and a week's use for skiing is not long term use.
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Chamcham wrote:
Side effects of ibuprofen: gastritis, peptic ulcers, risk of heart and kidney disease.
Side effects of skiing: aching muscles and joints.
I'd say the risk/benefit balance is fairly obvious.


I do not like taking ibuprofen or aspirin due to the gastritis risk. (I will use them in very limited cases for a short period but I rarely experience any significant pain) Alcohol also does the same thing to your stomach lining due to acidity and it also damages the liver. Paracetamol is less damaging to stomach lining and so you could take it in the event of severe pain.

Pain caused by muscle use is a common side effect of exercise and muscle use. It is the body rebuilding muscle fibres. I find warming up, and post exercise stretching, sauna, bath, ice and some muscle rubs are the best prevention/cure. Also gentle massage can help, although whilst skiing a deep tissue sports massage may make things worse in the short term. (probably best done by yourself when rubbing in deep heat : other muscle rubs are available)

Pre-loading with ibuprofen sounds silly. Have you tried any of the muscle rubs with topical pain killers (Voltoral?). It might work better when you feel pain in knees. I found it expensive, and a waste of time for my minor ailments.

If you take a little bicarbonate of soda with the ibuprofen would that reduce the risk of increased stomach acidity and consequent gastritis? Worth considering why they do not coat the ibuprofen with bicarbonate of soda!

I have used ultrasound massager around my knees for the adhesion points of the muscles when they get tight (with aloe vera gel to improve skin and muscle condition). This removes any stiffness prior to exercise, and might also help post exercise. (although I found wrapping my knees in a champagne bottle chiller for 10 - 20 minutes works better) My muscles around my knees improved with regular running, to the extent that I no longer need to ice them (I was only icing them when I started running again and the muscles were obviously a bit weak)


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 28-03-18 9:40; edited 3 times in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
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If your knees hurt, I would question a. your fitness (to ski) and b. your technique, not necessarily in that order...
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T Bar wrote:
Ibuprofen is basically very safe for the liver and a week's use for skiing is not long term use.


Agreed, but the question was about pre-loading, which is unnecessary . Fine to take if you need to, but as underanewname says, better to get fit and improve technique, although there is not a lot many can do once arthritis has set in.
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@under a new name, I went out on my bike last night and my knee hurt right through the night. Was it my technique?

But then the OP does say
Quote:

to stave off pain on aging knees that are otherwise fine for more leisurely activities?
so you may have a point.
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under a new name wrote:
If your knees hurt, I would question a. your fitness (to ski) and b. your technique, not necessarily in that order...

If only people who are fit and have good technique were allowed to go skiing, there would be no ski industry rolling eyes
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@On the rocks, if your issue is swelling and pain from the beginnings of arthritis, then PRP injections would be worth considering. No side effects, completely natural and continue to work for a very long time. They've transformed my arthritic knee.
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Hells Bells wrote:
T Bar wrote:
Ibuprofen is basically very safe for the liver and a week's use for skiing is not long term use.


Agreed, but the question was about pre-loading, which is unnecessary . Fine to take if you need to, but as underanewname says, better to get fit and improve technique, although there is not a lot many can do once arthritis has set in.

I think we're furiously agreeing, on the liver I was responding to Mr Egg's post, I was making the same point as you a couple of posts above.
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I skied with a group of doctors once who all dosed up on ibuprofen at breakfast. I personally didn't and wouldn't, and have found that when I have taken it I cannot distinguish any effect, positive or negative. My knees creak a bit after over 40 years of skiing and rugby but I keep my leg muscles in trim in the gym and actually have less discomfort than when I was younger.
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@Raceplate, and wouldn't that be a fine thing!
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under a new name wrote:
@Raceplate, and wouldn't that be a fine thing!
so you want to get me off the mountain because I'm a septuagenerian with arthritic knees? I'll see you outside. wink
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I am sure that I was told it takes three days for enough ibuprofen to build up to start impacting the swelling in my knee by the doctor who was sending me off to take max doses of ibuprofen. This was a number of years back and I guess medical advice changes often!!!
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
@under a new name, I went out on my bike last night and my knee hurt right through the night. Was it my technique?

Could easily be, your knee is a hinge and if when pedaling your leg doesn't go straight up and down or there's any twist you can really screw your knee(s).

These days there are pedals which measure every aspect of alignment throughout the pedal stroke and those that know how to interpret the data can make adjustments to technique to get improvements and millimetres matter!

Whilst cycling is always sited as "low impact" and "joint friendly" it can also hurt!
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i use compression sleeves & Tiger Balm
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@Mr.Egg,
Quote:

i use compression sleeves
I've only just started doing so, following an injury to one knee (the use of a sleeve was recommended to aid proprioception in that knee, which was shot) and have been amazed at the difference it makes - much less swelling at the end of a ski day than hitherto.
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Quote:

your knee is a hinge and if when pedaling your leg doesn't go straight up and down or there's any twist you can really screw your knee(s)

off thread, but interesting. I cycle a bit - building up to a long charity event ride at the end of May. I do sometimes see cyclists with very screwed looking pedal action. Especially big blokes whose knees go out when they go up, rather than everything in the same plane. I THINK my action is OK, and biking doesn't seem to bother my knees the way skiing does.
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Raceplate wrote:
under a new name wrote:
If your knees hurt, I would question a. your fitness (to ski) and b. your technique, not necessarily in that order...

If only people who are fit and have good technique were allowed to go skiing, there would be no ski industry rolling eyes


perhaps, but it does put other solutions (losing weight, getting stronger and fitter) out there rather than simply just popping pills.

skiing isnt a particularly strenuous activity the way the majority do it, its basically standing up and leaning. If you hurting doing that then maybe other lifestyle alterations would improve overall quality of life and enable the op to get more out of a skiing holiday.
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i had been taking naproxen as a prophylactic for my knee (doctor happy) while skiing. I forgot to take it with me other week - absolutely no difference as to if I had been taking it i.e.a bit achey, no swelling
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eddiethebus wrote:
Raceplate wrote:
under a new name wrote:
If your knees hurt, I would question a. your fitness (to ski) and b. your technique, not necessarily in that order...

If only people who are fit and have good technique were allowed to go skiing, there would be no ski industry rolling eyes


perhaps, but it does put other solutions (losing weight, getting stronger and fitter) out there rather than simply just popping pills.

skiing isnt a particularly strenuous activity the way the majority do it, its basically standing up and leaning. If you hurting doing that then maybe other lifestyle alterations would improve overall quality of life and enable the op to get more out of a skiing holiday.


But arenít quick solutions and I get the impression that the OP is talking about a relatively imminent trip rather than next season which you could realistically achieve weight loss / increased fitness.
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time to take up knitting then Laughing
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I take Organic Apple Cider Vinegar/Raw Honey (diluted in a pint of water), as well as Extra Virgin Olive Oil, year round....both these are natural ways of fighting arthritis and inflammation.

I only take anti-inflammatory/pain killers during the week that I ski....for the reasons stated above.
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Hurtle wrote:
@Mr.Egg,
Quote:

i use compression sleeves
I've only just started doing so, following an injury to one knee (the use of a sleeve was recommended to aid proprioception in that knee, which was shot) and have been amazed at the difference it makes - much less swelling at the end of a ski day than hitherto.


I also use one of these
https://www.stressnomore.co.uk/neurotrac-sports-xl-9946.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjOTO3P6O2gIVZyrTCh0VuQ7TEAQYASABEgKQ3vD_BwE
My left leg is shot to pieces anyway... so my right leg does about 80% of the work
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pam w wrote:
Quote:

your knee is a hinge and if when pedaling your leg doesn't go straight up and down or there's any twist you can really screw your knee(s)

off thread, but interesting. I cycle a bit - building up to a long charity event ride at the end of May. I do sometimes see cyclists with very screwed looking pedal action. Especially big blokes whose knees go out when they go up, rather than everything in the same plane. I THINK my action is OK, and biking doesn't seem to bother my knees the way skiing does.


Still off topic, but get someone to ride behind you and film your legs if possible your feet should be parallel to the bike and knees in line with your toes, if they're not then don't suddenly correct it, over time slowly move your alignment so that they are.

A lot of people set up their riding position to what's comfortable not necessarily what's correct...

are you using cleats of any description Pam?
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I use compression sleeves on both knees and if am in pain, which is most days, use Voltoral gel on the knees, I use the double strength 12 hour stuff and it works much better than the standard gel. I used to eat a lot of ibuprofen but find diclofenic works better for me.. I was told to try to not use NSAIF as a preventative measure but after skiing to reduce swelling. a bag of snow does a lot of good as well Smile
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If knees twist out when riding a bike it is usually a sign of an arthritic hip
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eddiethebus wrote:
Raceplate wrote:
under a new name wrote:
If your knees hurt, I would question a. your fitness (to ski) and b. your technique, not necessarily in that order...

If only people who are fit and have good technique were allowed to go skiing, there would be no ski industry rolling eyes


perhaps, but it does put other solutions (losing weight, getting stronger and fitter) out there rather than simply just popping pills.

skiing isnt a particularly strenuous activity the way the majority do it, its basically standing up and leaning. If you hurting doing that then maybe other lifestyle alterations would improve overall quality of life and enable the op to get more out of a skiing holiday.


But! As we age we have all subjected our bodies to lots of different sorts of wear and tear. As far as I am aware damage to ligaments/ligaments loosing elasticity as a result of ageing etc is not something that can be put right, your muscles have to take up the slack. Therefore skiing even at low recreational level, as with hill walking, running, going up stairs ...... may put those muscles under a lot more stress than you might think. Therefore inflammation and pain become more likely even if you have worked really hard to build up muscle strength. Sad
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Do Pilates. It rebalances the body and makes it stronger by teaching lazy muscles to do their bit (plus other benefits).

When I was in my 30s, I climbed, skied and biked a lot and only got through it by taking ibuprofen (or so I thought). I really thought that my knees were shot.

Iím now 48 and skied 15 days on the trot over Xmas without any knee pain or doms. I didnít take any ibuprofen. I put it down to Pilates which Iíve now done regularly for 10+ years.

Hope that helps
Simon
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