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Magnetic trees and Psych research on '...that might happpen...'

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I know well the research on magnetic trees and rocks - when skiing and DHing and MTbing - ie when hurtling, look at the object you are trying to avoid and you WILL hit it. Almost always. So the technique is to scope out the visual field, choose the line, and focus on that. Works well.

But then I have experienced in my life when chopping veg, driving through a narrow gap, cutting some cheese etc a thought 'careful...THAT might happen...and immediately it does...' Happened last night when I was going through a vehicle restriction - narrow for my car but one I have been through many times - thought: 'that curvy bit of pavement sticks out, I don't want to rub the front tyres on it'....'oh b====er'....

thought at Christmas - I have just sharpened this knife to razor sharp, be careful '...ah I have just cut the top of my finger half-through..'
thought this morning - cutting the cheese like that is a bad idea '...ah the knife slipped and JUST missed my finger...'

I am never entirely sure whether the thought occurs well before (could have changed the action); just before (maybe could change); at the outset of the event (no chance); during (far too late); or just after (forget it).

And I can't find any research on this very common phenomenon....any ideas or personal examples?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Target fixation? Freefall meat bombers have been known to splat in due to being fixated on the ground.

CG
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
"Wood magnetism" is a well known hang gliding concept.

And it's kind of true in surfing and snowboarding that if you look down... that's where you're going.

But I never had that issue with snowboarding around trees. I know the conventional wisdom, but ignore it. My mind set is not to look at the gaps, it's more to treat the trees as gates to slalom through... Therefore I conclude that the magnetism is probably mostly post-hoc and in the mind...

What's a "meat bomber", and do I really want to know?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
Charliegolf wrote:
Target fixation? Freefall meat bombers have been known to splat in due to being fixated on the ground.

CG


Same when motorcycling- target fixation. Only close I ever had was heading towards a right hander and spotted something in the hedge on the apex of the bend. Next second, Iím heading straight for it. Classic target fixation. Luckily I snapped out of it and cranked it over around the bend.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Awdbugga, ...that's right, target fixation is issue 1 in the original post. But issue 2 is weird and different, and commonly expressed by climbers - I thought 'don't do that' but found myself doing it, and indeed everything went pear-shaped....that's not target fixation...what the hell is it? Any ideas?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
valais2 wrote:
@Awdbugga, ...that's right, target fixation is issue 1 in the original post. But issue 2 is weird and different, and commonly expressed by climbers - I thought 'don't do that' but found myself doing it, and indeed everything went pear-shaped....that's not target fixation...what the hell is it? Any ideas?


Itís Animal House syndrome. Ever seen the film Animal House? The scene where the guy finds himself in bed with the stunning girl whoís drunk and passes out on him. Then a little angel and a little demon appear on his shoulders giving him contradictory advice as to what he should do. Sounds like that to me. rolling eyes Puzzled Twisted Evil Embarassed
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
philwig wrote:


What's a "meat bomber", and do I really want to know?


Sorry, parachutists Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Well-known psychological concept. Right now, whatever you do, do NOT think of pink elephants... rolling eyes
Never tell anyone to do anything in the negative (i.e. don't look down), because it's the first thing that they'll do. Similarly, whether 'training' someone else (child, husband wink ) or self, always instruct in the positive - "please avoid that crevasse" compared to "don't fall into...".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.

http://youtube.com/v/JpP8kMwvRvI
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@valais2, not something I find myself a victim of, must say. Although, fírinstnce, I would ban alcohol advertising as I think itís unhelpful...

What research?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@valais2, I have been conducting this research all of my life. At school I was known as "unco", because if it could be tripped over, spilt, dropped, walked into, or if I could bang my head or a limb on it, I did.
These days a lack of feeling on one side of each hand (damage to ulna nerves) means I have to be extra careful with hot things when cooking etc. I frequently burn myself and as I write have a blister on my little finger.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Happened last night when I was going through a vehicle restriction - narrow for my car but one I have been through many times - thought: 'that curvy bit of pavement sticks out, I don't want to rub the front tyres on it'....'oh b====er'....



Worth reading "Thinking fast and slow" if you haven't.

Essentially we have two forms of processing - conscious analytical (slow from first principles) and heuristic/instinctive (fast from experience, rules of thumb, pattern recognition). Fast thinking is brilliant until it isn't (pattern recognition is fooled, problem is counter intuitive). Slow thinking is really powerful but most people find it very sapping and hard work and will avoid it in a similar way to they avoid physical pain. It can also lead to "over-thinking".

What happens with your restriction example is when you focus on it you shut down your instinctive process and switch to the analytical one which is simply less good at spacial awareness. Kind of obstructs the "grooving" of your skills that comes with practice and leads to unconscious competence. Plenty of analogies in sport. Also consider that moment at the ATM when rather than just type your PIN in without thinking, you consciously try to remember it and can't. I had one of those recently.

So on the target fixation, I'd say it is similar stuff - if you focus too much on the trees you go into "slow" mode and lose a bit of the practiced skills that left to their own devices would get you round the obstacle.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Jedster - excellent thatís the kind of text reference I was looking for - will grab that and take a look ... many thanks
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jedster,
Quote:

that moment at the ATM when rather than just type your PIN in without thinking, you consciously try to remember it and can't.

Gosh yes!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

will grab that and take a look


It is an amazing book - full of ideas and observations that make you see the world differentlt - but then it is essentially a precis of the life's work of a Nobel Laureate (Daniel Kahneman).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Tend to suffer from this on road bike on descents - stare at corner thinking musn't run wide, musn't ruin wide - then end up on the grass Embarassed Laughing

And with everyone on the try and remember something you know instinctively like PIN numbers - all goes wrong.
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