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Ratio of boarder to skiers

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you are on a snowboard and tackling moguls you've taken a wrong turn somewhere. Get off the piste.
I nearly split my genitals once using a drag lift on skis, you know the look, going around a corner with one ski vertical and my arms popping out of their sockets.
Bizarrely find it easier on a snowboard....don't know why, but touch wood, so far I've never fallen off one, and learning to use drags has opened up a whole world of quicker access in busy times, and some of the best areas are only served by drags.

As for the thread swerve on kids....@Steilhang, similar story in my house, no police records, no sex, no drugs, no booze. Where's the fun in that. Powder days bore them now, think they genuinely prefer the virtual world.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I agree - teenagers just don't seem to get hedonism.

https://g.co/kgs/xBhj1d

We need a new variant on the MYASH Bash, to involve large amounts of the kind of behaviour that we certainly wouldn't want our kids telling their mother about, and that we might have done 'in our day'.

I nominate @Masque to lead...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just back from a 2 week holiday and my seven year old son spent 75% of his time on his slalom skis, 20% on freestyle skis and 5% on his snowboard. Generally he'll do a couple of hours of snowboarding each holiday and that seems enough to keep him happy. He's got no idea what's cool or not as he's only 7, so he just does what he prefers on any given day.
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@langball, Spot on about Moguls. Why would you go to a mogul field on board?

The ESF competition piste drag ( Top of Mt Cherey ) is a real nutcracker on a board as the spring is super tight, the guy runs the motor turned up to 11t, the engage mechanism has seen better days and the button has very little deflection in the shaft so its almost straight. This means that as the button grabs the cable there is very little play, and you never quite know when its going to engage, so timing of getting it back far enough into your undercarriage as to avoid ball damage is a real challenge.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

@langball, Spot on about Moguls. Why would you go to a mogul field on board?

Many skiers claim to enjoy powder now so I think it's only fair that I like moguls on my board Laughing
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Liking them is very different in knowing how to deal with them (bit like skiers in general Toofy Grin ) Plus helps to be able to pick a line through which isn't strewn with skier yardsale debris of poles, lost skis, shattered femur bits etc.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
...skiers can't just strap on a pair of snow shoes over your boot and head off into the back country


True, but it means carrying your board. A skier can just get touring bindings and be in a far better position to explore the bacckcountry than a snowboarder with snow shoes imo. Split boards are the real leveller for snowboard back country travel although they still have some disadvantages to skis in terms of uphill travel and transition times.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
WindOfChange wrote:
@langball, Spot on about Moguls. Why would you go to a mogul field on board?

The ESF competition piste drag ( Top of Mt Cherey ) is a real nutcracker on a board as the spring is super tight, the guy runs the motor turned up to 11t, the engage mechanism has seen better days and the button has very little deflection in the shaft so its almost straight. This means that as the button grabs the cable there is very little play, and you never quite know when its going to engage, so timing of getting it back far enough into your undercarriage as to avoid ball damage is a real challenge.


moguls - as in big clumps of cut up snow. I call them moguls, no idea if there is a better description!
when newbie progresses from the groomed nursery slope, to a proper slope, they wipe out as soon as they come to a large clump of snow.
They get told to bend the knees, but when they hit the clump, they stay rigid, board flexes & flips them over. Its fun to watch Laughing
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Aahhh, y'see I'd call that 'chop'. Moguls are regular mounds of solidified snow formed by the passing of skiers through the same lines down a slope. If you watch timelapse of a mogul field, you can watch them move slowly down the hill as people go over them... but then only snowboarders displace snow off slopes so they probably are a figment of my imagination...
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
langball wrote:
If you are on a snowboard and tackling moguls you've taken a wrong turn somewhere. Get off the piste....
No. You need to do is to learn to ride. It's all about mastering the board.

Of course there are no moguls out here in the woods, but the same skills are directly applicable to riding trees well. Each to their own, but just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't or "shouldn't" be done.

--
As he said, cut up snow ("crud") is not remotely mogul like. When frozen you can expect it to be uncomfortable but you don't actually need to turn to navigate it.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I've always called that mixture of icy lumps and shushy snow you get at the end of season 'crud', but we can all agree we have a rich and colourful lexicon.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
There are very, very, very few snowboarders in Norway these days.

Same goes for telemark. Most of my friends did ski telemark before and now are on carving skis. Telemark looks great but its very hard on the knees.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hey dudes/ettes chill, don't get your panties in a bunch ........ superimposing your perceived inferiority on fellow slope users is not the way forward.

We're all in this together .....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@boarder2020, don't agree, a skier needs touring skis, touring bindings, flexi boots? and skins. That's a lot of money, time and gear compared to a 60eur pair of raquettes / snowshoes. Also I've toured with fitter guys with all the ski tour gear (non smoking / non drinking / 9-5 gym addicts) and they weren't any faster than me on snowshoes, including one bloke on the latest Jones splitboard.

@philwig, just my opinion...am well able to navigate trees and moguls on a board, one is fun, the other isn't
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Seen a couple of interviews recently with respected figures in the snowboard industry who both felt that snowboarding got its marketing wrong for a long time during the '00s. Everything was marketed at rails, street riding, kids and park. This is far removed from most people's actual snowboard experience and also targets a market segment who don't actually have much disposable income.

This is changing a lot now with loads of marketing aimed at powder/freeriding (witness the splitboard revolution in the past few years!) and marketing/products aimed at families (witness all the great-quality and innovative kids' gear now on the market, especially from Burton with the promotion of the Riglet reel, Riglet park, etc.). There's some evidence that the decline in snowboarding has halted and that market share is starting to climb again.

It's also noticeable that the proportion of snowboarders among those who might be considered "hard-core enthusiasts" (seasonnaires, park riders, off-piste riders, those braving the Scottish conditions every weekend, freestyle nights at domes, etc.) is much higher than in the general skiing/snowboarding public. I've always found that interesting.

In other countries/cultures, snowboarding also reached, and has maintained, a much higher peak than in the European Alps (North America, Aus/NZ, Japan, Scotland....). In the now exponentially expanding Chinese snowsports market, snowboarders are even in the majority!

@langball, moguls are a boatload of fun on a board! wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It seemed to me 50/50 boarders/skiers in Niseko in Feb
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
One of my kids has done the last couple of seasons in the rentals shop and says there’s a daily occurrence of Chinese tourists wanting to “ski board”. They insist on hiring skis but with snowboard boots. Usually no intention of actually using the gear, it’s just for Instagram moments Very Happy

There’s plenty of boarders in Nz. There’s lots of good golf courses as well which probably keeps a lot of the skiers away from the mountains. The sketchy mountain roads aren’t too good for the paintwork on the Audi/rangie/bimmer either so again that tends to limit skier numbers.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

witness all the great-quality and innovative kids' gear now on the market, especially from Burton with the promotion of the Riglet reel, Riglet park, etc.


This. Had no problems getting kit for the 8yo from Skimium in VdI. All brand new kit, selection of boards boots and bindings, and was offered the option of fitting a Riglet reel to his board if I'd wanted it at no extra (didn't as he's past that stage) but certainly an improvement when I'd looked before at hiring gear for the kids.

It will be interesting to see how the Chinese market develops over the next 4 years, in the run up to 2022, particularly if China put in a strong freestyle showing in Korea next month.
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I think a lot of it has to do with learning to snowboard is so much harder than learning to ski. I have been on trips with friends who gave up snowboarding after 2 days and switched to skiing and were able to get around the mountain after a day or two.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
snoway. wrote:
I think a lot of it has to do with learning to snowboard is so much harder than learning to ski. I have been on trips with friends who gave up snowboarding after 2 days and switched to skiing and were able to get around the mountain after a day or two.

I thought it was the other way round. I think what puts people off is that first morning or afternoon as described by Richard earlier.
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Snowboarding is harder to learn IMO, edge-catch slams are brutal. Skiing is harder to master though, even with new ski tech. Takes all sorts however, live and let live!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Well, I've been riding for 18 years and still learn stuff and still have plenty to learn too. Watched a video of me riding the other week and was left wondering WHY the hell my trailing knee was doing some weirdness which I'm pretty sure I hadn't asked it to do? Puzzled
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Richard_Sideways, I'm the same with my trailing arm. I never said it was easy to perfect Razz
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I've never skied so I don't know. I picked snowboarding because I was a surfer and everyone told me snowboarding was just like surfing... Bunch of liars I guess none of them had ever surfed.

The first two days were brutal and I have never been so sore in my life but the best thing I did was take lessons from a pro and not learn on my own or from friends. Now I spend most of my time chasing my kids on skis and them desperate to start snowboarding.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
We had four days in the Vosges mountains back in 2011 I think, my total count of snowboards on the mountain over all four days was 7. That's including our two and even boards seen outside mountain cafes. It did make the slopes a bit trickier, as you do need some understanding of the other 1 extra / 1 less plank method in order to anticipate what others on the slope around you are likely to do.

Livigno probably the most for me, felt much closer to 1:5 I guess, never really checked too closely. There's more skiiers, enough snowboarders, and I hope we're all having a good time.

As for the learning - decent instructor got us to linked turns forward on blues and reasonable effort at linking switch turns on a green after 3 days. As mentioned above, couple that with a falling leaf, and you *can* make it down any slope on the mountain.

It looks to me as though more skiers persevere with lessons and coaching to keep improving to the level where they can ski well, mainly carving on edges for most of the mountain. (I'm talking about 95% carving here, not absolute perfection) where lots of snowboarders are still using a huge amount of skid in their turns, almost just linking a long heel edge skid to a long toe edge skid. At the same time, they'll be trying jumps much earlier I think.

I love the playful aspect of snowboarding, and I think lots of people did when it first became popular, when long narrow skis were less forgiving. Now you can play just as easily, if not more so on skis, so I think the lure of snowboarding has diminished.

Windsurfing is struggling now that kitesurfing is here - quicker and easier to learn, easier kit to transport, and more accessible fun or tricks. Just the same as skiing when snowboarding came along.

That ratio will vary back and forth over the decades; as long as there's enough of all of us out there to keep the slopes open, that'll be just fine.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@leggyblonde, @Richard_Sideways, trailing arm and trailing knee funkiness are usually knock-ons from other issues. If you figure those out and address them, the rudder arm or tuck knee should go away on its own. Trying to tackle it directly is a case of treating the symptom, not the disease!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
philwig wrote:
So yeah, here's a frame grab from today. Any further questions?


I think we're past peak snowboard as the OP suggests. But then you're also past peak ski... what of it?


Any further questions? Yes. Why are you fannying about with a camera on a stick? Can't you just enjoy yourself without the vanity of filming your every move?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
swiftoid wrote:
philwig wrote:
So yeah, here's a frame grab from today. Any further questions?


I think we're past peak snowboard as the OP suggests. But then you're also past peak ski... what of it?


Any further questions? Yes. Why are you fannying about with a camera on a stick? Can't you just enjoy yourself without the vanity of filming your every move?


Vanity? Some of us quite enjoyed seeing that shot! Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Robin Agogo wrote:
swiftoid wrote:
philwig wrote:
So yeah, here's a frame grab from today. Any further questions?


I think we're past peak snowboard as the OP suggests. But then you're also past peak ski... what of it?


Any further questions? Yes. Why are you fannying about with a camera on a stick? Can't you just enjoy yourself without the vanity of filming your every move?


Vanity? Some of us quite enjoyed seeing that shot! Very Happy


The OP was 'In recent years I think there is a noticeable decline in the number of boarders in European ski resorts at a guess I'd put it at 80% skiers and 20% boarders ? Am I imagining this decline or is thete something to it???'

Yes, vanity. Good picture or not, that post didn't answer the OP at all. It was just 'look at me'. And any further questions were invited - I, personally, think people riding around with cameras on the end of poles look stupid so I wondered why they did it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
swiftoid wrote:
Robin Agogo wrote:
swiftoid wrote:
philwig wrote:
So yeah, here's a frame grab from today. Any further questions?


I think we're past peak snowboard as the OP suggests. But then you're also past peak ski... what of it?


Any further questions? Yes. Why are you fannying about with a camera on a stick? Can't you just enjoy yourself without the vanity of filming your every move?


Vanity? Some of us quite enjoyed seeing that shot! Very Happy


The OP was 'In recent years I think there is a noticeable decline in the number of boarders in European ski resorts at a guess I'd put it at 80% skiers and 20% boarders ? Am I imagining this decline or is thete something to it???'

Yes, vanity. Good picture or not, that post didn't answer the OP at all. It was just 'look at me'. And any further questions were invited - I, personally, think people riding around with cameras on the end of poles look stupid so I wondered why they did it.


I imagine people take photos and video on the mountains for exactly the same reasons that virtually every other photo has been taken - either as a nice memory for themselves, or to be able to convey the trip to other people, same as every Christmas family snap, or holiday "wish you were here" shot. The added bonus with a bit of video is that it can also be used for coaching and improving your technique. The picture was posted to show the joy in the sport, not his personal appearance or abilities, so not sure it's vanity anyway...

But you know, we all see the world in different ways.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I had always assumed that the films were more about skiting (boasting) rather than skiing.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@McKenzie, I guess it depends whether it's something you do for yourself, and maybe to show to friends or interested parties, or whether you chuck it on youtube for random members of the public to see. I never look at any of the pictures or videos here as boasting, because we're all interested in sharing the sport.

I trawl youtube for videos of resorts we're planning to go to to have a look at the slopes and a bit of general info. Some of those are definitely all about the boasting, though most seem more about "look how fab this place was, we had lots of fun".
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I watch them too & generally get something from them as well, even if it's just giving me more information about a resort or the topography. I don't mean to sound grumpy or arrogant but I'm from the pre-selfie generation & don't really get it. I'm sure it's my loss. I'm a professional photographer & never take a camera with me as that would make it work & if I'm skiing I'm there to have fun.
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Skis for a hardpacked piste, but a board for off piste powder every time!!

I love skiing but it can never compare to surfing a powder field on a board.

I've been boarding for nearly 30 years and still stick my trailing arm out when pressing on Embarassed
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@bar shaker, so does XV de le Rue so I reckon we're ok wink

I like the images captured from selfie sticks (a good use for a ski pole apparently) and the like but rarely watch amateur videos as the editing etc is often so rubbish
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bar shaker wrote:
Skis for a hardpacked piste, but a board for off piste powder every time!!

I love skiing but it can never compare to surfing a powder field on a board....:


I imagine it’s a glorious feeling. If I were to ever go boarding, it would be to experience just that. Boards were made for it.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@bar shaker, +1

I just fall over when pressing on Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Interesting topic - putting a slightly different spin on it .......... are there many 'older' snowboarders out there?
My husband (56 this year) and fellow friends in their 50's all started 21+ years ago - they all wake boarded so seemed a simple progression.
Needless to say they are all excellent boarders now - however I still cringe at times when I hear them behind me - brings on memories of the 'early learning days'!!
Yes - we have put skis on them (for a laugh) - they were not too bad.
In my opinion as a skier who has skiied with boarders for many years - boarders definately use / need more energy to cover the same distance in a day compared to skiiers.
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If by older you mean: mature, sanguine, disciplined, considered, capable, dignified, venerable and sage, then I would not qualify.
But I was born in the 60s and board about 45 days per season.
I think your "early learning" is a good analogy as I too enjoy sitting around in my underpants reading large print books.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
BigSouthernJesse wrote:
....
I imagine people take photos and video on the mountains for exactly the same reasons that virtually every other photo has been taken - either as a nice memory for themselves, or to be able to convey the trip to other people, same as every Christmas family snap, or holiday "wish you were here" shot. The added bonus with a bit of video is that it can also be used for coaching and improving your technique. The picture was posted to show the joy in the sport, not his personal appearance or abilities, so not sure it's vanity anyway...

This.

It is a joy to ride a snowboard down a powder field. Although I can also ride skis, the feeling isn't the same I'm afraid, which is why I choose to ride a board. I was trying to illustrate something of that feeling, the joy of graceful movement in the mountains. That's why I snowboard, and (if you read the thread context), why people will continue to do so. If the photo didn't capture that feeling for everyone, that's a shame, but it clearly communicated to some people as intended.

The caption was a joke, but as with all such it won't work for you if I have to explain it wink
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